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Why I don't think headphones do it for me anymore...

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darkswordsman17 said:
Yeah. There are some that have good quality deep bass that gives me the same mental stimulation that I get from a sub, only I can also hear the rest of the music the texture in the bass - provided its there in the first place and not one note garbage that a lot of "music" has. That's my biggest problem with subs especially in cars or and how most people set them up, its more feel than hear.

Definitely most people do not have things setup for good quality bass. I see a lot of people that think clipping is good as they associate it with putting two crappy subs in their trunk and cranking the bass on their crappy car stereo all the way up. I remember someone was showing off their new 15" sub that they spent a bunch of money on and then seeing them crushed when I showed them that it was clipping. They thought clipping was the desired sound that they were supposed to be going for. They had actually burned a couple of amps and subs and bought the 15" because they though they had been using too much amplifier for their previous subs and that was what had killed them.

Have you heard one of the "fan" subs? I can't recall what they're actually known as, but they look like fans and pretty much they're put in a separate room that functions as the enclosure. I know they're supposed to go way down but I was curious how they actually sounded.

What would be the pinnacle for a sound system to achieve in the low frequencies? I know helicopters are difficult to reproduce (i.e. be anywhere near a Chinook and you'll understand), and canons (I remember reading about a certain recording of the 1812 Overture where people were blowing their speakers due to the canons). Both of those aren't exactly "musical" though. A good pipe organ?
Click to expand...

Most of them have the drivers loaded in such a way that the excursion is very low even at high power. Like an overloaded induction motor (high slip) the voice coil quickly overheats, resistance goes up and suddenly the amp reaches its power supply voltage upper limit - voltage clipping occurs. If this is allowed to continue the driver may fail, exhibit dynamic offset (seem to "zero" further in or out of the mid point depending on phase) which can push it completely to x-mech (most home/auto woofers don't have shorting rings). In the end it just sounds really bad unless you like that kind of nasty rubbish. To a perfume connoisseur it would be no different than following around a garbage truck on a hot day. D:

The "fan" subs - Thigpen design are capable of producing fairly loud low frequencies in the single digit range. The installation is very sensitive to parameters and one must be a sufficient distance from the system as it makes noise in the audible range in quiescent state. In other words it has a horrible noise floor - just as using 1U pro amps next to the listeners! (noisy 40mm fans!) It not matter if the reinforcement comes at a time where you have lots of high frequency sounds like an explosion in a movie but a distant rumble of thunder would be spoiled. (or is that cicadas in the distance?) 😉

Large helicopters produce a sharp "chop" sound with a lower frequency wave that can be captured with a large diaphragm condenser mic fairly easily. The wave is big and uses lots of recording headroom. Thunder and explosions will do the same thing. Often these are recorded in multiple channels split amongst several octaves which can be re-mixed to make it listenable without destroying too much dynamic range.

IMO the cannons on the popular Telarc 1812 are quite distorted. I've heard a restored version that was much better but also would be quite taxing to play back on most systems under 40dBW power.

One of the most impressive recordings I heard (non musical) was the Space Shuttle Discovery. The SRBs produce a chuffing sound that makes the air move in the listening space that produces nausea almost immediately. What was even funnier was the HID lighting in the room was affected and the engineer said it was acoustic not electrical! The metal halide arc tube capsules were shaking so hard there was a prominent color temperature shift from white/blue to reddish pink back and forth that gave the illusion that there was a fire in the ceiling!

Pipe organs are the only acoustic instrument producing the lowest registers. The largest stop is 64' - 8Hz! There are stories told of a 128' stop - 4Hz but I've yet to see or hear one! Perhaps this is why! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wpn7xyzUqg 😉

Synthesizers can (of course) produce anything from DC to whatever you want but most synth bass is in the 35+ Hz range in pop music today.
 
Rubycon said:
Most of them have the drivers loaded in such a way that the excursion is very low even at high power. Like an overloaded induction motor (high slip) the voice coil quickly overheats, resistance goes up and suddenly the amp reaches its power supply voltage upper limit - voltage clipping occurs. If this is allowed to continue the driver may fail, exhibit dynamic offset (seem to "zero" further in or out of the mid point depending on phase) which can push it completely to x-mech (most home/auto woofers don't have shorting rings). In the end it just sounds really bad unless you like that kind of nasty rubbish. To a perfume connoisseur it would be no different than following around a garbage truck on a hot day. D:

The "fan" subs - Thigpen design are capable of producing fairly loud low frequencies in the single digit range. The installation is very sensitive to parameters and one must be a sufficient distance from the system as it makes noise in the audible range in quiescent state. In other words it has a horrible noise floor - just as using 1U pro amps next to the listeners! (noisy 40mm fans!) It not matter if the reinforcement comes at a time where you have lots of high frequency sounds like an explosion in a movie but a distant rumble of thunder would be spoiled. (or is that cicadas in the distance?) 😉

Large helicopters produce a sharp "chop" sound with a lower frequency wave that can be captured with a large diaphragm condenser mic fairly easily. The wave is big and uses lots of recording headroom. Thunder and explosions will do the same thing. Often these are recorded in multiple channels split amongst several octaves which can be re-mixed to make it listenable without destroying too much dynamic range.

IMO the cannons on the popular Telarc 1812 are quite distorted. I've heard a restored version that was much better but also would be quite taxing to play back on most systems under 40dBW power.

One of the most impressive recordings I heard (non musical) was the Space Shuttle Discovery. The SRBs produce a chuffing sound that makes the air move in the listening space that produces nausea almost immediately. What was even funnier was the HID lighting in the room was affected and the engineer said it was acoustic not electrical! The metal halide arc tube capsules were shaking so hard there was a prominent color temperature shift from white/blue to reddish pink back and forth that gave the illusion that there was a fire in the ceiling!

Pipe organs are the only acoustic instrument producing the lowest registers. The largest stop is 64' - 8Hz! There are stories told of a 128' stop - 4Hz but I've yet to see or hear one! Perhaps this is why! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wpn7xyzUqg 😉

Synthesizers can (of course) produce anything from DC to whatever you want but most synth bass is in the 35+ Hz range in pop music today.
Click to expand...

Telarc 1812 is waay overrated. Especially the new recording. Technically superior but musically disastrous. It was an technical exercise, nothing more.
 
sdifox said:
Telarc 1812 is waay overrated. Especially the new recording. Technically superior but musically disastrous. It was an technical exercise, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Of course but even then it was technically inadequate and Kunzel himself should have been ashamed for letting it get cut and released like that!

Of course today we live in a society where inferior things often reach the top. Look at some of the posters here, for example. 😉
 
I don't remember the brand, but I used to have a pair of DJ headphones that had a battery powered bass amp that also literally vibrated to the bass. You should look into it.
 
Rubycon said:
Of course but even then it was technically inadequate and Kunzel himself should have been ashamed for letting it get cut and released like that!

Of course today we live in a society where inferior things often reach the top. Look at some of the posters here, for example. 😉
Click to expand...

you are not talking about me are you :sneaky:
 
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