Why I became a non-republican

[JohnnyMcJohnnyJohn]

In '00, I was independant, if not leaning slightly to the right. What's humorous is that I lived in El Paso TX from '96 to Dec '99 and saw first hand the effect of GW. Before TX, I had never heard of him, only his father who, if given the opportunity (age being the deciding factor

I would've voted for Bush Sr. in '92. By '97, though, I began to see GW's aggressive ineptitude in the school systems my family taught in. "Teach the test," thanks GW! That way we can reduce funding to shcools and fire teachers if their students don't memorize the test fast enough. Tough love, tough love... Hadn't realized it until then, but the soution to America's education crisis is to bird dog and humiliate the teachers. I started to observe his policies more and more in Texas, developing more and more distaste for him.

Then came the R primaries. Damn it all to hell if McCain didn't take it. Although I suppose it's understandable, McCain has a distnighuished milittary, civic, and political background with a reputation for cutting through the BS of Washington. War hero, POW, successful and popular politician with a handle on both foreign and domestic affirs. Bush, on the other hand, was given a horrendously burdensome assigment in the TX Air National Guard where he was actually required to show up for almost 35% duty time. A true Vietnam vet if there ever was one. He painstakingly managed an oil company that was forced upon him right into the ground. He even had to own a Baseball team that was also forced upon him. BASEBALL. NOBODY likes baseball, especially the Rangers! Then, he was forced to remeber the semester of Spanish he slept through in Yale (and you thought the Hanoi Hilton was bad...) in order to convince the Spanish population of Texas he was the WASP for them! Yikes! But somehow, Bush trudged onward and Goverened Texas with but a pep talk or two from his father, the ex-president and former head of the CIA. While there, he shot from the hip like a true cowboy and stuck it to those teachers who made his life so boring. Gotcha! Obviously, I'm still a bit jaded the GW took the primary.

So I didn't like Bush going into the General Elections, can't deny it. Didn't much care for Gore, but minus a BJ and perjurious testimony from his boss, it was a pretty damned propersous and progressive eight years so he got my vote. Maybe it was the fact the he Gore had been involved in politics for more than three years, I don't know what was running through my head... And then came the election itself.

Boy that was a close one, and how ironic it is that the deciding state happened to be governed by non other than GW's brother! Not that it had anything to do with stoppping the recount before it was acutally completed since it conflicted with America's supposed attention span, or that questionable tacticts were used at the voting booths to disenfranchise thousands upon thousands of registered voters.

I didn't like GW, but I tried to have a little faith in the guy. I subscribed to the "train of thought " that since he surrounded himself by "smart people" e everything would be OK. Hmm... a cabinet full of Hawks with a sprinkling of "yesmen." But hindsight is 20/20. Needless to say, his presidency has been anything but inspiring. Well, that's not entirely true. I have next felt such a sense of efficacy as I do now to ensure he is not voted into another term. It's feels almost as if the future of our country depends on it. Oh, wait second, it probably does! I almost forget that Bush Lite is an evangelical Christian who believes who was appointed by Allah, er, God to govern this mighty nation into the second coming of Christ (aka, the end of the world.) Lord help us...

//end rant

 

[Red Dawn]

What ever. The reason I became a Republican was to vote for John McCain! Lot of good it fscking did me

 

[ElFenix]

well, what do you expect? you can't come right out and tell the parents it is their fault their little johnny is dumb as a brick, can you?

 

[JohnnyMcJohnnyJohn]

ouch?

 

[Corn]

I dunno, I suppose I don't understand what's so bad about "teaching the test" if the test is a reasonable assessment of academic proficiency.

I certainly remember taking "tests" in school to determine my knowledge of the curriculum being taught. Are these "test" that are being taught to unreasonable in their expections of a minimum skill level that students will need to achieve success in future academic study as well as the real world?

Are these teachers who "teach the test" teaching the subject matter covered in these tests, or are they teaching students how to be better guessers on multiple choice tests?

 

[JohnnyMcJohnnyJohn]

Good question. If your job was on the line, how would you prepare the kids for the test?

The reason I don't agree with teaching the test is because the test should be a sampling of a childs knowledge base, as any test should be. This is wrong on two accounts:

1.) The children are essentially given the test in advance

2.) The children are given ideal circumstances for a positive reflection on their "knowledge base" since the "sampling" of material offered to them is far too specific to be considered a fair sampling.

Lo and behold, test scores have gone up "dramatically" and yet we still can't do math for sh!t (a bit harder to cheat on math.) Our kids aren't any more knowledgeable, but if you ask them the right questions they might appear to be.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: Corn
I dunno, I suppose I don't understand what's so bad about "teaching the test" if the test is a reasonable assessment of academic proficiency.

I certainly remember taking "tests" in school to determine my knowledge of the curriculum being taught. Are these "test" that are being taught to unreasonable in their expections of a minimum skill level that students will need to achieve success in future academic study as well as the real world?

Are these teachers who "teach the test" teaching the subject matter covered in these tests, or are they teaching students how to be better guessers on multiple choice tests?

As the parent of 2 kids that have to pass the WASL in order for them to graduate...let me tell you what's so bad about it. Teachers are being forced to teach kids how to pass the test rather than teaching them how to actually THINK. They don't spend enough time on any given subject which means the child doesn't have the time to absorb the material. Who gives a sh*t if they can pass a test. Some of the best TEST takers I know are f'n idiots in the real world.

The sad part is that we, as a nation, are about to dump these dumb-ass, perfect test takers on the rest of the world and they won't be armed with the tools they are going to need to survive.

 

[Isla]

As someone who teaches SLD (Specific Learning Disabilities) the problem I have with the tests is that the tests reflect the socioeconomic status of the children who attend the schools. PERIOD. Well, DUH, of course kids who have stable homes and families are going to do better on tests than kids who have parents who struggle to make ends meet, or have succumbed to the hopelessness of living in poverty.

I live and teach in an area that consistently scores well, thanks to the resources available to the children of the community. But God help the teachers who teach in areas where junior lives in poverty. They may want to HELP the kids break out of the cycle of poverty... but what ends up happening is that they just look like bad teachers because they teach at 'D' and 'F' schools.

BTW, the majority of teachers I have known (and they are many, being a teacher who was raised by a teacher) are not Republicans.

Also, my conservative Repubican husband who wouldn't speak to me because I voted for Gore has done a 180. I have to to bite my tongue sometimes to keep from laughing, "Hey, you sound like a Democrat!"

<---Independent

 

[glenn1]

Why I became a non-republican

Who cares? I'm no more interested in why you no longer like republicans than the reasons why you used to buy a particular brand of toilet paper and have since switched to the competitor. I have no reason or desire to know that brand X chaps your ass now where before it didn't.... it's your ass, not mine. Likewise, if you no longer like the party, don't vote Republican next time then.

 

[Corn]

As someone who teaches SLD (Specific Learning Disabilities) the problem I have with the tests is that the tests reflect the socioeconomic status of the children who attend the schools. PERIOD. Well, DUH, of course kids who have stable homes and families are going to do better on tests than kids who have parents who struggle to make ends meet, or have succumbed to the hopelessness of living in poverty.

I live and teach in an area that consistently scores well, thanks to the resources available to the children of the community. But God help the teachers who teach in areas where junior lives in poverty. They may want to HELP the kids break out of the cycle of poverty... but what ends up happening is that they just look like bad teachers because they teach at 'D' and 'F' schools.

So what's the answer then, just pass the students who haven't learned from one grade to another.......hey, why bother teaching them when they just aren't going to learn anyway, right?

The bottom line is accountability, for teachers AND students. We have no business passing "F" students up and out if they haven't learned a minimum skillset to become productive citizens, PERIOD! School is not daycare, and students who are unwilling to learn should be sent home--and definitely should not be graduated.

I feel sorry for teachers saddled in "D" and "F" schools, but they do their students no favors by helping the failures pass through the system. I feel sorry for them because of the liberal mentality that is pervasive in the system that essentially turns schools into daycare and demands no accountability from students.

Something needs to change, the ways of the past 30 years have led to the problems that the innercity schools now face. We've thrown more money at the "problem" and it hasn't helped......mostly because the money doesn't ever make it to where it should go, instead it ends up in the pockets of administrators, caterers, consultants, Dell and HP, and union cronies.

BTW, the majority of teachers I have known (and they are many, being a teacher who was raised by a teacher) are not Republicans.

No suprise there, Republicans aren't too pleased with the status quo.....something the teacher's unions are deathly afraid of.

 

[0roo0roo]

and don't even pretend bush's policies in texas improved his schools. the reasons he got improvement? the drop out rate increased dramatically, and students were held back to keep scores up. its a total fraud. and the districts had to in order to get their money.

molly ivans goes after bush on this and other things in her book.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why I became a non-republican

Who cares? I'm no more interested in why you no longer like republicans than the reasons why you used to buy a particular brand of toilet paper and have since switched to the competitor. I have no reason or desire to know that brand X chaps your ass now where before it didn't.... it's your ass, not mine. Likewise, if you no longer like the party, don't vote Republican next time then.

But then he couldn't rant about his personal problems, now could he?

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why I became a non-republican

Who cares? I'm no more interested in why you no longer like republicans than the reasons why you used to buy a particular brand of toilet paper and have since switched to the competitor. I have no reason or desire to know that brand X chaps your ass now where before it didn't.... it's your ass, not mine. Likewise, if you no longer like the party, don't vote Republican next time then.

Likewise if you don't like the thread don't read it next time.

Last time I checked Americans were still free to express themselves.

You sound a little pissed that Bush and Co. are turning people away from the Republic Party. Little wonder though, Bush and Co. aren't really Republics after all. They're extremists who are hell bent on ruining the Republic Party - and they're doing quite a good job of it.

As for the subject of the thread, children need to be taught in an atmosphere conducive to learning. Today in poor neighborhoods children feel threatened on their way to school, schools are crumbling, poor kids are more worried about where their next meal is coming from than they are about learning and with both parents working just to make ends meet they are left most of the time on their own without the supervision and discipline children desparately need.

I remember someone talking the talk about "no child left behind" but he hasn't walked the walk yet. We're spending vastly more rebuilding schools in Iraq than we are right here at home.

Until we get our priorities straight our education system will continue to suffer and our children right along with it.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Corn
I dunno, I suppose I don't understand what's so bad about "teaching the test" if the test is a reasonable assessment of academic proficiency.

I certainly remember taking "tests" in school to determine my knowledge of the curriculum being taught. Are these "test" that are being taught to unreasonable in their expections of a minimum skill level that students will need to achieve success in future academic study as well as the real world?

Are these teachers who "teach the test" teaching the subject matter covered in these tests, or are they teaching students how to be better guessers on multiple choice tests?

he addressed several other issues that you have chosen to overlook.

 

[Corn]

he addressed several other issues that you have chosen to overlook.

Here's a thought, my intellectually challenged friend, perhaps I didn't address his "other issues" because maybe I don't disagree with them.....or perhaps I just didn't care to address them. Either way I see you didn't address any of my "issues"......wadda ya know about that.

 

[PainTrain]

Corn said "So what's the answer then, just pass the students who haven't learned from one grade to another.......hey, why bother teaching them when they just aren't going to learn anyway, right?

The bottom line is accountability, for teachers AND students. We have no business passing "F" students up and out if they haven't learned a minimum skillset to become productive citizens, PERIOD! School is not daycare, and students who are unwilling to learn should be sent home--and definitely should not be graduated.

Corn you've hit the nail on the head and yet somehow missed the point entirely. Accountability IS important, but it has start and end in the home. What happens in school is a reflection of what a child is learning from their parents. Yes I'm blaming the parents, because the responsilibty of endowing children with the discipline, motivation, and self confidence to learn falls on US. Somehow, we are aghast to find our children learning nothing in school when in reality our children aren't taught to care about learning. Techers are responsible for being knowledgeable about their craft and exposing their students to that knowledge, past that everything falls on the parents. Period. Right now, kids are being passed because they are being forced to meet standards that simpyl cannot be met overnight. Yet that is exactly when the results are demnded, yedterday. Urgency can be a good thing, but revamping our educational system should be done with care and diligence, not an ADD-like frenzy of finger pointing

I feel sorry for teachers saddled in "D" and "F" schools, but they do their students no favors by helping the failures pass through the system. I feel sorry for them because of the liberal mentality that is pervasive in the system that essentially turns schools into daycare and demands no accountability from students.

Remember, it's no longer about the kids. It's about survival. The emphasis has been put on the teachers and their ability to keep their jobs. And I agree with your daycare comparison. This might be tangential but I find a direct correlation between the length of the work day, the commonality of dual income families, and the day care model for public schools. If parents weren't forced to work 9 to 10 hours a day they could be home spending time with their children making more of an impact on their daily lives. AS it stands now, most familes spend a fraction of the day interacting with eachother while the majority of the day is spent with people who should only share a minor part in their lives.

Something needs to change, the ways of the past 30 years have led to the problems that the innercity schools now face. We've thrown more money at the "problem" and it hasn't helped......mostly because the money doesn't ever make it to where it should go, instead it ends up in the pockets of administrators, caterers, consultants, Dell and HP, and union cronies."

Well here's an idea, throw money at THAT problem instead of driving teachers out of the classroom with it. Not your call obviously but it seems straightforward.[b/]

Glen said: "Who cares? I'm no more interested in why you no longer like republicans than the reasons why you used to buy a particular brand of toilet paper and have since switched to the competitor. I have no reason or desire to know that brand X chaps your ass now where before it didn't.... it's your ass, not mine. Likewise, if you no longer like the party, don't vote Republican next time then. "

Let me help you with this one; "..."
That's what it would look like if you truly didn't give a sh1t. You're either a hypocrite or not very bright. Now unravel your panties and move along.

 

[Corn]

Corn you've hit the nail on the head and yet somehow missed the point entirely. Accountability IS important, but it has start and end in the home. What happens in school is a reflection of what a child is learning from their parents. Yes I'm blaming the parents, because the responsilibty of endowing children with the discipline, motivation, and self confidence to learn falls on US. Somehow, we are aghast to find our children learning nothing in school when in reality our children aren't taught to care about learning. Techers are responsible for being knowledgeable about their craft and exposing their students to that knowledge, past that everything falls on the parents. Period. Right now, kids are being passed because they are being forced to meet standards that simpyl cannot be met overnight. Yet that is exactly when the results are demnded, yedterday. Urgency can be a good thing, but revamping our educational system should be done with care and diligence, not an ADD-like frenzy of finger pointing

I don't disagree at all with that, but the problem is how do you make an uncaring parent accountable? As far as I can see, the only way to make the parent accountable is to send the unwilling and disruptive child home. Teachers need to be held accountable to the children who do want to learn. Some teachers need the balls to say "enough, I'm going to fail you out of my classroom, two more strikes and your out of school, let mom and dad babysit you".

 

[LunarRay]

All parents are and ought to be accountable for all their children's 'growth' aspects. Some children are, for whatever reason, unable to assimilate into the 'normal' class environment. This condition requires remedial action from the school district and the parents. Students with learning or social disabilities are not the problem of the classroom teacher. Nor should the classroom teacher or the students be saddled with the job of putting in what God or the parents failed to include. There is and should be a basic skill level for each class promotion. Failure to enforce this achievement requirement will further disable the student and disrupt the able students as well. If for some reason alternate learning is not available then separate classes should be arraigned to accommodate the skill level of the disabled student. Students with severe social mis development either should be schooled in a class more conducive to social development or be home schooled. At the end of the day it is the parent who has the burden of their children.. As I see it.

 

[PainTrain]

"I don't disagree at all with that, but the problem is how do you make an uncaring parent accountable?"

I truly cannot think of a single, solve-all answer for every child and their families. But neither one of us claim to be experts in the field of education, it's extraordinarily compicated. That's why I have such a problem with the way our schoolsystems are being forced to operate. The force is being applied politically, not scientifically. It is not the role of a Governor, or even a President, to pretend to know the complexities of educating our children at a public level and they should not be manhandling those people who are[i/] actually trained in the profession into unproven educational tactics. It made me especially angry when GW actually touted increases in test scores when in truth our children were just as uneducated as they before the revamping of the ducational system. In all honesty, I don't blame him for wanting to try something new, but it is unethical that he should lay claim to any improvements in our childrens education because it is just not there. Aside from that, it forced alot more teachers out of the career field which is already hurting for them.

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
All parents are and ought to be accountable for all their children's 'growth' aspects. Some children are, for whatever reason, unable to assimilate into the 'normal' class environment. This condition requires remedial action from the school district and the parents. Students with learning or social disabilities are not the problem of the classroom teacher. Nor should the classroom teacher or the students be saddled with the job of putting in what God or the parents failed to include. There is and should be a basic skill level for each class promotion. Failure to enforce this achievement requirement will further disable the student and disrupt the able students as well. If for some reason alternate learning is not available then separate classes should be arraigned to accommodate the skill level of the disabled student. Students with severe social mis development either should be schooled in a class more conducive to social development or be home schooled. At the end of the day it is the parent who has the burden of their children.. As I see it.

I'm not picking on you, LunarRay, but I wish you'd consider the good it can do having teachers who are trained to teach children with dyslexia, apraxia, and a multitude of other challenges that can be overcome successfully. Everyone has a different learning style... some are visual, some are auditory...
and MANY children are VERY bright but need a SLD teacher like myself to help them reach the benchmarks.

Case in point: My daughter's boyfriend, who comes from a wonderful family, makes A's in his Advanced Placement Chemistry and Calculus courses, but who also happens to be dyslexic. It was his SLD teachers in elementary school who helped him overcome his challenges so that he could be as successful of a student as he is today. His parents are stable but not wealthy and I know that they appreciate the fact that he was able to get the specialized instruction he needed in the public schools.

<---defending her specialization

 

[Ferocious]

I voted for Reagan, Bush twice, and was a Gingrich supporter.

It wasn't until around 1995-1996 that I finally had accumulated enough real world experience combined with following legislations on the internet later that I stopped being a blind devotee.

 

[chess9]

I thought McCain was an attractive candidate and was disappointed he wasn't nominated. BUT, he supports this stupid war in Iraq, so I've crossed him off my list of people I'd ever vote for.

I'd like to see a moderate Republican run against Bush in the primaries but that isn't going to happen unless Bush goes downhill in the next couple of months. The Republicans will ride that easily manipulated numbskull all the way to the bank. That's why he's raised more money than all the Dems combined. Those tax cuts have really got the fat cats ponying up the big bucks.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

LunarRay:

Dood, if only life were that simple. Do you really think every parent is capable of handling every problem every child might encounter? Do you really think teaching children can be reduced to a pancake (two sides)? Children are just like adults. They are complicated and often difficult to understand. I'm not banging on you, just suggesting that these issues are much more complex than you appear to believe. I taught for 3 years in the military, and I can tell you that teaching can be extremely challenging. My hat goes off to all those special ed teachers who patiently deal with difficult children on a daily basis and turn them into productive citizens. Look what they did for GW! , (Okay, okay, we can fire his teachers. )

--Robert