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Why has Warner Bros failed w/DC Comics where as Disney has succeeded with Marvel?

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Ancalagon44 said:
The late 70's Superman movie with Christopher Reeve was great because it was inspiring and heroic. That music just fitted perfectly to what I think Superman is supposed to represent - good values and the triumph over evil.

The latest movie was depressing, dark and filled with action scenes that were too long and actually out of place. Scenes with Jor El and Kent Sr were good, but otherwise it was bad.
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Well... if you look at the Superman comics going back since they tried killing him off the first time, it's been very dark for awhile. I think overall the latest Superman movie was actually quite good, EXCEPT for the part where he has problems breathing. WTF. He's supposed to be able to fly around the vacuum of space for crying out loud.
 
I actually like DC characters more than Marvel characters. So that is not an absolute.

One key difference in quality is that Marvel since Iron Man 1 has tried to build a "universe" while DC just throws concepts against the wall. It doesn't always work out for Marvel (like the Incredible Hulk with Ed Norton) but they are smart to just reboot that piece of the universe instead of the entire thing. Apparently DC is going to emulate Marvel going forward on this concept.

Another issue is that Marvel ever since Iron Man has recruiting directors that are huge fans of the source material and who had cult hits prior to getting into comic movies- Joss Whedon, Jon Favreau, or Joe Johnston (who did the best anyone could do with the Rocketeer comic series).

Meanwhile Warner has stuck to big time directors that make big budget movies- Tim Burton, Martin Campbell, and Zack Snyder (who beat his chest about how his Superman would be better than the comic ones). These directors don't bring any passion to the project for the material, and it shows in the final product.

The exceptions to this for DC have been successes IMHO. Christopher Nolan of course was passionate about the material and it showed. Also I think Bryan Singer made the best Superman movie ever, but his talents got sucked back into the Marvel material.

DC comic movies need more Nolans and less Snyders...
 
DC's problem is they don't have any interesting characters aside from Batman. They tried with Superman, but they always make the mistake of thinking "oh, here is a situation he can't possibly overcome; nope, he gets this new power right now and triumphs!". He has no real adversity. Man of Steel did a great job trying to add some by giving Superman a real character. The scenes up until he put on the suit were amazing. It probably helps I am a huge Costner fan.

Marvel, on the other hand, has a vast array of interesting characters (and a token bullshit one: Wolverine, but he isn't that powerful, just unkillable). None of their characters are unbeatable. And their answer to Batman is just super badass. The Punisher would kick Batman's ass any day.
 
I like batman, the flash, and the green arrow from DC, thats about it. Now from marvel I like damn near everyone, especially the X-men comic book storylines. I feel the marvel universe is bigger and everyone in it fits well with their counterparts. I can't get into dc comics like I can marvel, it feels like a grind to get into the juicy parts of the story, whereas marvel has amazing stories like the Uncanny X-men, and the Superior Spiderman. I feel like the stories are just better. The only superman story I enjoyed was the show smallville
 
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Disney largely acquired studios with unique and appealing IP that do it better rather than trying to figure out how to do it on their own, at least in recent history. Disney's in house animation was a total wreck for about a decade with an increasingly long line of tepid releases and flops until they bought Pixar and just put Lasseter in charge of it all.
 
Outside of Batman, the DC comic characters are basically shit. Superman is boring, and after that, you've got Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern and the Watchmen... I mean, holy fuck, just typing out a list of DC heroes is likely to give you a sudden case of acute narcolepsy. Marvel has the benefit of having Stan Lee, who helped come up with Spider-Man, the X-Men, Iron Man, Thor, The Fantastic Four and Hulk, all of whom are more interesting than any non-Batman DC character (although they've certainly dropped the ball bringing The Fantastic Four and Hulk to the big screen, but they've made up with it by somehow making Captain America not the dullest hero in comic movie history, which is a pretty impressive feat in and of itself).
 
waggy said:
Once marvel got the IP back they started producing much better movies. They understand how the movie should play out. They are also getting better at it.
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And this is one of DC's biggest problems. They have their IPs spread out so far that it takes a committee to agree to any thing concerning any of their characters. This is something they are actively working to correct.

Also it just doesn't help that DC characters suck balls. Superman? a man that can't die (he goes into hibernation...). a man so strong he can tow planets around, can hear someone calling his name for space. etc etc. a damn boreing guy.
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That is the whole point. Superman is not about fighting. Superman is about having the power to do anything you want, being a literal god amongst mortal men, and choosing to do the right thing.
In a really good Superman movie the main plot would be about if Superman should stop the villain, not if he can. It would explore the question of what the proper use of Superman's power really is, and at just what point all of his good intentions turn to into terrorism. Maybe a movie in which Lex Luthor is not seen as a homicidal psychopath set on revenge no matter the cost, but instead as a Corporate CEO that is generally worried about what he sees as a god like being enforcing a moral code on the world by threat of force.
 
SMOGZINN said:
And this is one of DC's biggest problems. They have their IPs spread out so far that it takes a committee to agree to any thing concerning any of their characters. This is something they are actively working to correct.

<snip>
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Who other than WB owns DC's rights? I honestly can't think of any movie/show with DC IP that WB isn't making, or heavily involved in. I am prob forgetting something but honestly I'm blank...

As for a lot of the posts, you can tell who has read a lot of comics. DC has remained in business because they are able to tell interesting stories with their characters. If the studios would take a page from Marvel and stop letting Directors/Producers/Actors put their spin on the IP it would prob do so much better.
 
Ancalagon44 said:
That at least is true - animated DC films are great.

But other than Batman Begins and Dark Knight, all other DC movies have been terrible. I think Skel is right about Marvel exerting control over the properties that it owns, and it works well for them.

Slightly off topic, did anyone else think that Dark Knight Rises was nowhere near as good as it could or should have been?
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Absolutely! I really hated Dark Knight Rises. I could go into all the reasons why, but it doesn't really belong here. Suffice it to say I like to imagine the Nolan Batman films ended with The Dark Knight. I even rewatched Dark Knight Rises yesterday for the first time since seeing it in theaters, and I still hated it.
 
02ranger said:
Absolutely! I really hated Dark Knight Rises. I could go into all the reasons why, but it doesn't really belong here. Suffice it to say I like to imagine the Nolan Batman films ended with The Dark Knight. I even rewatched Dark Knight Rises yesterday for the first time since seeing it in theaters, and I still hated it.
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Honestly, I think TDK was the worst movie. BB was the best, I thought.

TDK is overly long. It has a great beginning and a great end and everything in between is kind of meh.
 
Honestly, none of the Nolan Batman movies were that good, as movies. The problem is, there haven't been a lot of good Batman movies (live action ones, at least), so people tend to inflate their opinions of them. TDK was decent, and I honestly believe if Heath Ledger hadn't died, it wouldn't get nearly the praise it does.

The problem with DC is there aren't any recent good movies besides Batman. The Superman movies are redbox approved at best. And, the Green Lantern?
 
smackababy said:
Honestly, none of the Nolan Batman movies were that good, as movies. The problem is, there haven't been a lot of good Batman movies (live action ones, at least), so people tend to inflate their opinions of them. TDK was decent, and I honestly believe if Heath Ledger hadn't died, it wouldn't get nearly the praise it does.

The problem with DC is there aren't any recent good movies besides Batman. The Superman movies are redbox approved at best. And, the Green Lantern?
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Nolan can do no wrong GTFO.

re: Green Latern

Let's not act like Marvel has never dropped a bomb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Rider_(2007_film)
 
bearxor said:
Honestly, I think TDK was the worst movie. BB was the best, I thought.

TDK is overly long. It has a great beginning and a great end and everything in between is kind of meh.
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I know a lot of people tend to agree with you, that TDK was just ok at best, but I really liked it. I do think it could have been shorter, and probably done without Two-Face altogether, but it was the best of the three IMO. DKR, on the other hand, took a huge dump all over Batman. I get a lot of flak for that opinion from my friends, but it was just terrible.
 
I remember reading an article and it talked about how nolan's version of batman made it tough for dc. they were stuck making a dark universe for all their ips if they wanted a shared universe.

overall dc movies haven't been great but their tv stuff is definitely ahead of marvel. they've had smallville, arrow, now gotham(?).

Their justice league animated series are always fun to watch also.
 
02ranger said:
I know a lot of people tend to agree with you, that TDK was just ok at best, but I really liked it. I do think it could have been shorter, and probably done without Two-Face altogether, but it was the best of the three IMO. DKR, on the other hand, took a huge dump all over Batman. I get a lot of flak for that opinion from my friends, but it was just terrible.
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Yep, I'm with you. I still really enjoy TDK and found TDKR to be a slog. I used to think BB was the best of the series, but on a recent re-watch I found the latter half of that film to be pretty boring and ridiculous. So for me it's TDK>>BB>>>>>TDKR.

KT
 
Arrow is a decent show, and I am pretty sure that is DC. My only gripe is that ... how is he so much better then these 'villans' when all he has is a bow and arrow and some karate skills.
 
ViviTheMage said:
Arrow is a decent show, and I am pretty sure that is DC. My only gripe is that ... how is he so much better then these 'villans' when all he has is a bow and arrow and some karate skills.
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Doesn't he use some rather hi-tech arrows?

My major complaint about Arrow is that it's a CW show, which means you get all the annoying aspects of a show on the CW. To date, my favorite DC TV show is Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Of course, I watched that when I was far younger, but it was still fun.. and younger Teri Hatcher! :wub:
 
Aikouka said:
Doesn't he use some rather hi-tech arrows?

My major complaint about Arrow is that it's a CW show, which means you get all the annoying aspects of a show on the CW. To date, my favorite DC TV show is Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Of course, I watched that when I was far younger, but it was still fun.. and younger Teri Hatcher! :wub:
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Amen to that! Teri Hatcher made that show worthwile, and I still think Dean Cain was the best Superman. One thing I've always wondered, if Superman existed in real life, would he be as ripped as he is in the comics? Wouldn't he actually be pretty skinny since finding something heavy enough for him to work out with would be difficult?

Edit: And yes, I realize this is a completely nerdy question, but it's been rattling around in my head ever since somebody complained that Dean Cain wasn't muscled enough for Superman. 😛
 
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