Why has healthcare suddenly become a problem?

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Phokus
It's like conservatives experience de-evolution or something. How is it possible for you guys to get DUMBER than you already are?

They aren't really that dumb, they just believe the longer and louder that shout thier BS
the greater their chances of defeating any reform. Kinda like the old saying if your caught cheating deny,deny and deny some more even if your caught in the act. Some of the more deluded ones may believe thier own BS, but most of them know better

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

you only need 51

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: jonks
you only need 51

You need 60 to keep the ole FilaBuster out. I wonder if the GOP are happy that they didn't pull the nucular (spelling is correct for W) option and kill the filabuster a few years ago?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

Uhmmmm, yes they were. That's what that stupid 'nuclear option' business was all about.

 

[TruePaige]

Fear No Evil, just Fear Everything Else.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

Well maybe thats the difference. There wasnt as much infighting with the GOP. They agreed enough to get shit passed. The Dems dont.

(Just making generalizations, of course.)

 

[Jakeisbest]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer
Health care reform has been attempted for over 100 years and has been beaten by FEAR each and every time. There was no reason to try to reform it as long as Bush (or any GOP power for that matter) was in office to face a certain VETO. History shows that when in doubt, whip the fear out (and so far, it has worked). This is the best chance in nearly 100 years to get it passed, so sure, they are going to try to nail it to the board and make it stick...any way they can.

So now we've gone from DECADES, to over a CENTURY of attempted reform... (All Democratic I am sure.. ) Yet this needed to be passed in a couple weeks of it being introduced?

The funny thing about legislation like this is that if it's not passed quickly (and decisively for that matter, it "usually" won't make it at all. History has taught us that on both sides (See SS reform a few years ago).

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Should we be ramming bills through that impact 1/6th of the economy (Whatever that # is) and could make life of death healthcare decisions for people in a matter of weeks?

All the serious responses in this thread (There have only been a few) seem to so far point to their not really being a crisis, but the crisis being more about getting this passed before support drops for it. Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either. If we can't even get a majority of democrats to agree that this bill is good.. Maybe it needs some rethinking?

One of Obama's big campaign pledges was to pass health care reform during this first term in office.

Also, I think you are confusing the proverbial "now" with, the sit down and vote today "now".

Most of the conservatives won't even talk about health care reform. Instead of talking through the details of the bill they are talking about death panels, care for illegal immigrants, and a slue of other topics which have little or nothing to do with the legislation which is being proposed.

Obama is trying to say that he won't let this drop, this bill is not going to go away. He wants the to stop with misinformation and start talking details.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

Well maybe thats the difference. There wasnt as much infighting with the GOP. They agreed enough to get shit passed. The Dems dont.

(Just making generalizations, of course.)

In theory it would be better for America if our parties didn't act like giant hive minds.

GOP = voting hive mind more or less.

Dems = moderates, liberals, and everything in between.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer
Health care reform has been attempted for over 100 years and has been beaten by FEAR each and every time. There was no reason to try to reform it as long as Bush (or any GOP power for that matter) was in office to face a certain VETO. History shows that when in doubt, whip the fear out (and so far, it has worked). This is the best chance in nearly 100 years to get it passed, so sure, they are going to try to nail it to the board and make it stick...any way they can.

So now we've gone from DECADES, to over a CENTURY of attempted reform... (All Democratic I am sure.. ) Yet this needed to be passed in a couple weeks of it being introduced?

The funny thing about legislation like this is that if it's not passed quickly (and decisively for that matter, it "usually" won't make it at all. History has taught us that on both sides (See SS reform a few years ago).

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Should we be ramming bills through that impact 1/6th of the economy (Whatever that # is) and could make life of death healthcare decisions for people in a matter of weeks?

All the serious responses in this thread (There have only been a few) seem to so far point to their not really being a crisis, but the crisis being more about getting this passed before support drops for it. Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either. If we can't even get a majority of democrats to agree that this bill is good.. Maybe it needs some rethinking?

One of Obama's big campaign pledges was to pass health care reform during this first term in office.

Also, I think you are confusing the proverbial "now" with, the sit down and vote today "now".

Most of the conservatives won't even talk about health care reform. Instead of talking through the details of the bill they are talking about death panels, care for illegal immigrants, and a slue of other topics which have little or nothing to do with the legislation which is being proposed.

Obama is trying to say that he won't let this drop, this bill is not going to go away. He wants the to stop with misinformation and start talking details.

Then how do you explain the 30+ GOP sponsored health care bills in the House? Namely H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

Well maybe thats the difference. There wasnt as much infighting with the GOP. They agreed enough to get shit passed. The Dems dont.

(Just making generalizations, of course.)

In theory it would be better for America if our parties didn't act like giant hive minds.

GOP = voting hive mind more or less.

Dems = moderates, liberals, and everything in between.

*shrug* OK. Whatever it is, it's not working so well for the Dems.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

Well maybe thats the difference. There wasnt as much infighting with the GOP. They agreed enough to get shit passed. The Dems dont.

(Just making generalizations, of course.)

In theory it would be better for America if our parties didn't act like giant hive minds.

GOP = voting hive mind more or less.

Dems = moderates, liberals, and everything in between.

*shrug* OK. Whatever it is, it's not working so well for the Dems.

It's not good for getting bills passed because both parties would have to vote their minds and not their party lines for it to work.

If every representative just represented their people and not tried to secure their parties place instead we'd be better off.

S'all I'm saying.

 

[OrByte]

silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer
Health care reform has been attempted for over 100 years and has been beaten by FEAR each and every time. There was no reason to try to reform it as long as Bush (or any GOP power for that matter) was in office to face a certain VETO. History shows that when in doubt, whip the fear out (and so far, it has worked). This is the best chance in nearly 100 years to get it passed, so sure, they are going to try to nail it to the board and make it stick...any way they can.

So now we've gone from DECADES, to over a CENTURY of attempted reform... (All Democratic I am sure.. ) Yet this needed to be passed in a couple weeks of it being introduced?

The funny thing about legislation like this is that if it's not passed quickly (and decisively for that matter, it "usually" won't make it at all. History has taught us that on both sides (See SS reform a few years ago).

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Should we be ramming bills through that impact 1/6th of the economy (Whatever that # is) and could make life of death healthcare decisions for people in a matter of weeks?

All the serious responses in this thread (There have only been a few) seem to so far point to their not really being a crisis, but the crisis being more about getting this passed before support drops for it. Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either. If we can't even get a majority of democrats to agree that this bill is good.. Maybe it needs some rethinking?

One of Obama's big campaign pledges was to pass health care reform during this first term in office.

Also, I think you are confusing the proverbial "now" with, the sit down and vote today "now".

Most of the conservatives won't even talk about health care reform. Instead of talking through the details of the bill they are talking about death panels, care for illegal immigrants, and a slue of other topics which have little or nothing to do with the legislation which is being proposed.

Obama is trying to say that he won't let this drop, this bill is not going to go away. He wants the to stop with misinformation and start talking details.

Then how do you explain the 30+ GOP sponsored health care bills in the House? Namely H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.

That they are promoting bills that have no chance of passage while not working to constructively alter the bills that DO have a chance of passage.

It's a PR ploy.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Are you kidding me? Are you dense?

The Democrats were branded with the Scarlet Letter during the Bush Presidency. They were the minority party for 6 years. On top of that, when they did win a majority in the last two years, they didn't have a filibuster proof vote nor the good wishes of GWB. It's almost certain that any attempt at reform would have met with the same hostility seen today PLUS an instant veto from President Bush.

At least the GOP wasnt crying about how the minority was blocking them from doing anything. They...well...did what they wanted because...well...they were the majority. The Dems should take note

No, the Republicans did what they wanted because the Democrats didn't try to block everything that came along. Most legislation got at least 60 votes in the senate. That means at least 5 or 6 Democrat senators voted for EVERY passed bill.

Compare that with what's now going on in the Senate. Even if the Dems could round up 55 or 56 votes from their own side, I'd be suprised if more than 1 or 2 Republicans went along.

you only need 51

In theory, if both sides play nice, than even 50 is sufficient (because of the Vice President). But no Senate bill with even 59 supporters will even GET to a vote because both sides know that the minority side has a cloture-proof 41+ votes (except for funding bills, which by Senate rules cannot be fillibustered).

 

[Moonbeam]

Health care didn't just suddenly arrive on the scene; it was an issue that was built into the Constitution because of the fundamental Christian principles that went into the genetic makeup of our nation. Because the founding fathers were deeply influenced my Christian morality they built into the Constitution the notion of Jesus Given Rights, Christian charity and concern for the poor, and equality. Naturally the devil is at work to prevent us from living up to those ideals, but they are always in our conscientiousness waiting to surface when the opportunity presents, as it just did, when we elected an ersatz Messiah named after the blessings that fall from heaven, the holy Baraka. Of course the Jesus hating republicans will try to crucify health care as they do all real good.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Health care didn't just suddenly arrive on the scene; it was an issue that was built into the Constitution because of the fundamental Christian principles that went into the genetic makeup of our nation.

lol, n1

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Phokus
It's like conservatives experience de-evolution or something. How is it possible for you guys to get DUMBER than you already are?

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy

Originally posted by: Phokus
It's like conservatives experience de-evolution or something. How is it possible for you guys to get DUMBER than you already are?

They aren't really that dumb, they just believe the longer and louder that shout thier BS
the greater their chances of defeating any reform. Kinda like the old saying if your caught cheating deny,deny and deny some more even if your caught in the act. Some of the more deluded ones may believe thier own BS, but most of them know better

Except it doesn't matter what the Republicans or even the people of the United States as a whole think. The Democrats could pass this tomorrow. They're not.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer
Health care reform has been attempted for over 100 years and has been beaten by FEAR each and every time. There was no reason to try to reform it as long as Bush (or any GOP power for that matter) was in office to face a certain VETO. History shows that when in doubt, whip the fear out (and so far, it has worked). This is the best chance in nearly 100 years to get it passed, so sure, they are going to try to nail it to the board and make it stick...any way they can.

So now we've gone from DECADES, to over a CENTURY of attempted reform... (All Democratic I am sure.. ) Yet this needed to be passed in a couple weeks of it being introduced?

The funny thing about legislation like this is that if it's not passed quickly (and decisively for that matter, it "usually" won't make it at all. History has taught us that on both sides (See SS reform a few years ago).

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Should we be ramming bills through that impact 1/6th of the economy (Whatever that # is) and could make life of death healthcare decisions for people in a matter of weeks?

All the serious responses in this thread (There have only been a few) seem to so far point to their not really being a crisis, but the crisis being more about getting this passed before support drops for it. Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either. If we can't even get a majority of democrats to agree that this bill is good.. Maybe it needs some rethinking?

One of Obama's big campaign pledges was to pass health care reform during this first term in office.

Also, I think you are confusing the proverbial "now" with, the sit down and vote today "now".

Most of the conservatives won't even talk about health care reform. Instead of talking through the details of the bill they are talking about death panels, care for illegal immigrants, and a slue of other topics which have little or nothing to do with the legislation which is being proposed.

Obama is trying to say that he won't let this drop, this bill is not going to go away. He wants the to stop with misinformation and start talking details.

Then how do you explain the 30+ GOP sponsored health care bills in the House? Namely H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.

What exactly are the details of those bills? I'd like to know, but the fact is it's probably more of the same. I highly doubt there's a single bill in that list that actually addresses a fundamental problem of our health care system.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: OrByte
silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

Really.. we have one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world? Why do so many come here for world class treatment then? Our Doctors are the least informed, do nothing but hack jobs on patients, all while stealing every last penny from the patient right?

As I stated, if we have one of the WORST systems in the WORLD.. WHY would democrats not make an issue of it for the past 8 years? Is it because GWB would have gotten credit? I mean, if its truly the WORST, they should have at least brought it up as an issue a few times? Or was it more important to investigate the firing of U.S. attorneys than to protect the American people from ONE OF WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN WORLD?

I think you guys a proving to me this is nothing but politics as usual from the democrats.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte
silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

Really.. we have one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world? Why do so many come here for world class treatment then? Our Doctors are the least informed, do nothing but hack jobs on patients, all while stealing every last penny from the patient right?

As I stated, if we have one of the WORST systems in the WORLD.. WHY would democrats not make an issue of it for the past 8 years? Is it because GWB would have gotten credit? I mean, if its truly the WORST, they should have at least brought it up as an issue a few times? Or was it more important to investigate the firing of U.S. attorneys than to protect the American people from ONE OF WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN WORLD?

I think you guys a proving to me this is nothing but politics as usual from the democrats.

We pay over twice as much (as a % of GDP which makes it worse since we have the largest GDP) as any other country and have the 37th ranked (last I read) health care system in the world. While we may have some great "specialists", our general treatment system and how it treats ALL US citizens isn't that great in general, especially on what is costs the average citizen and employer alike. If you like it, good for you. Many of us are sick and tired of this shit.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte
silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

Really.. we have one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world? Why do so many come here for world class treatment then? Our Doctors are the least informed, do nothing but hack jobs on patients, all while stealing every last penny from the patient right?

As I stated, if we have one of the WORST systems in the WORLD.. WHY would democrats not make an issue of it for the past 8 years? Is it because GWB would have gotten credit? I mean, if its truly the WORST, they should have at least brought it up as an issue a few times? Or was it more important to investigate the firing of U.S. attorneys than to protect the American people from ONE OF WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN WORLD?

I think you guys a proving to me this is nothing but politics as usual from the democrats.

I'm still not understanding how you are able to ignore Democratic attempts to reform the health care system or implement universal health care going back five decades.

Our health care system isn't the worst in the world, in fact it's ranked #37 if I'm not mistaken. Sure that's behind some third world countries, but it's hardly the worst. You could make the argument that it is the least efficient system in the world however.

 

[Jakeisbest]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Engineer
Health care reform has been attempted for over 100 years and has been beaten by FEAR each and every time. There was no reason to try to reform it as long as Bush (or any GOP power for that matter) was in office to face a certain VETO. History shows that when in doubt, whip the fear out (and so far, it has worked). This is the best chance in nearly 100 years to get it passed, so sure, they are going to try to nail it to the board and make it stick...any way they can.

So now we've gone from DECADES, to over a CENTURY of attempted reform... (All Democratic I am sure.. ) Yet this needed to be passed in a couple weeks of it being introduced?

The funny thing about legislation like this is that if it's not passed quickly (and decisively for that matter, it "usually" won't make it at all. History has taught us that on both sides (See SS reform a few years ago).

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Should we be ramming bills through that impact 1/6th of the economy (Whatever that # is) and could make life of death healthcare decisions for people in a matter of weeks?

All the serious responses in this thread (There have only been a few) seem to so far point to their not really being a crisis, but the crisis being more about getting this passed before support drops for it. Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either. If we can't even get a majority of democrats to agree that this bill is good.. Maybe it needs some rethinking?

One of Obama's big campaign pledges was to pass health care reform during this first term in office.

Also, I think you are confusing the proverbial "now" with, the sit down and vote today "now".

Most of the conservatives won't even talk about health care reform. Instead of talking through the details of the bill they are talking about death panels, care for illegal immigrants, and a slue of other topics which have little or nothing to do with the legislation which is being proposed.

Obama is trying to say that he won't let this drop, this bill is not going to go away. He wants the to stop with misinformation and start talking details.

Then how do you explain the 30+ GOP sponsored health care bills in the House? Namely H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.

Many of these contain great ideas: Allow insurance to be sold across state lines, setup a commission who will create common definitions for procedures to reduce medical billing procedures.

I don't hear any of these being pushed by the GOP.