Why has healthcare suddenly become a problem?

[piasabird]

Actually bush passed some healthcare reform. He did more than Clinton. In the end Wall-mart is responsible for the most change in health care.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Just as fear shouldn't be used to prevent a bill from passing, it shouldn't be used to PASS a bill either.

I'm certain you were thinking the same thing when the PATRIOT Act was passed.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Im sorry you dont feel that way. The GOP is trying, and offering different alternatives to solve the same problem. Te fact that you dont see that, and dismiss it just because the GOP wrote the bills, truly shows your partisan stance.

The GOP is realizing they look like obstructionists and are clouding the issue by trying to hang onto the same old system with some tweaks.

It hasn't worked in the past, (tweaking the system), a complete overhaul is well overdue.

We're going to look back in 30 years and wonder WTF we were thinking with private insurance...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Your arguments don't make any sense. The Republicans are stonewalling on the legislation actually under consideration in the House/Senate, and then providing their own bills that they know won't pass. That's called giving yourself political cover, and it's what minority parties always do. If you think the Republicans are acting in good faith on this, you're awfully naive.

OK. Then, I guess the Democrats havent really been trying over...what was it...5 decades? It was all a PR ploy.

Fair enough.

I know you disagree with the GOP, and I somewhat disagree with the Democrats; however, to insinuate a party and those in it truly dont want whats best for the people is pretty callous. That would simply have to be a generalization made across both aisles. Period. As much as I disagree with Obama on some issues, I think deep down he really does want the United States to be a better place. Im not a conspiracy theorist, I dont think there are meetings behind closed doors on how to fuck the other guy and make a huge power grab, and although I understand many (if not most) members of congress are bought in some way or another, at the end of the day I believe they really do want to change things.

Im sorry you dont feel that way. The GOP is trying, and offering different alternatives to solve the same problem. Te fact that you dont see that, and dismiss it just because the GOP wrote the bills, truly shows your partisan stance.

Fair enough.

That's not even remotely accurate. I think that the GOP does want what's best for the country, but they believe that what's best for the country is defeating the Democrats' agenda in its entirety. This will cause them to vote against some things that they even agree with in service of this larger goal. If you read my post more closely you would see that I stated this was an attribute of the 'minority party', not specifically of the GOP. They just happen to be in the minority right now. I'm so sick of people shrieking 'partisan!' every time they get news they don't like to hear.

The GOP is presenting these bills with one goal in mind, and one goal only. That goal is so that when they are called out for having 'no ideas' on the health care issue, they can point to them. It's not like this is something new that the GOP just cooked up, it happens all the time. The only reason you never realized it before is that the bills aren't publicized... because they have zero chance of passage.

I'm sorry if this is an uncomfortable idea for you, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Im sorry you dont feel that way. The GOP is trying, and offering different alternatives to solve the same problem. Te fact that you dont see that, and dismiss it just because the GOP wrote the bills, truly shows your partisan stance.

The GOP is realizing they look like obstructionists and are clouding the issue by trying to hang onto the same old system with some tweaks.

It hasn't worked in the past, (tweaking the system), a complete overhaul is well overdue.

We're going to look back in 30 years and wonder WTF we were thinking with private insurance...

They're not trying to hang on to the old system, they are hoping to push HSA's onto people and basically make everyone self insured.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte
silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

Really.. we have one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world? Why do so many come here for world class treatment then? Our Doctors are the least informed, do nothing but hack jobs on patients, all while stealing every last penny from the patient right?

As I stated, if we have one of the WORST systems in the WORLD.. WHY would democrats not make an issue of it for the past 8 years? Is it because GWB would have gotten credit? I mean, if its truly the WORST, they should have at least brought it up as an issue a few times? Or was it more important to investigate the firing of U.S. attorneys than to protect the American people from ONE OF WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN WORLD?

I think you guys a proving to me this is nothing but politics as usual from the democrats.

I said health system...notice I didnt say healthcare.

dummy

So, we have great HEALTHCARE, but the system is bad? By 'system' do you mean insurance? Could you define the difference for me so I understand what you are referring to? Because I am being told we are 37th in the world in Healthcare.

Thanks for the insult as well. I have been very polite to everyone in this thread and have been called many names.

Do you not understand the nuances?

It's like this. Ferrari makes the best sportscar in the world but they aren't #1 in sales. Being #1 in a category doesn't automatically make the system perfect nor ideal. It is simply a measure of how much skill/money/technology is present. If you are super rich, then you can afford the best healthcare in the world (as well as that sports car). If you can't afford the health care, then you die because we don't have a fundamental guarantee of healthcare. The emergency room is not a viable alternative for the major killers of today, namely chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer. Or you can afford the health insurance, but go bankrupt in the process of getting well.

This article was a good read, it highlights the disparities in thinking between the US and the rest of the developed world.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215290

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Thanks for the insult as well. I have been very polite to everyone in this thread and have been called many names.

People have long memories and your politeness belies your history of being probably the most insulting member on this forum. Personally I kind of find your new found politeness rather disturbing, I kind of liked the leaner meaner FNE. Keep this up and I might even feel guilty insulting you myself.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Uhmm, the Democrats have been trying to reform the health care system for decades.

Perhaps the OP is only 11 or 12 and that's why he knows so little...

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: OrByte
silly thread.

OK since there is no "crisis" lets just not reform one of the worst health systems in the world.

shrug

gotcha...

Really.. we have one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world? Why do so many come here for world class treatment then? Our Doctors are the least informed, do nothing but hack jobs on patients, all while stealing every last penny from the patient right?

As I stated, if we have one of the WORST systems in the WORLD.. WHY would democrats not make an issue of it for the past 8 years? Is it because GWB would have gotten credit? I mean, if its truly the WORST, they should have at least brought it up as an issue a few times? Or was it more important to investigate the firing of U.S. attorneys than to protect the American people from ONE OF WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN WORLD?

I think you guys a proving to me this is nothing but politics as usual from the democrats.

I said health system...notice I didnt say healthcare.

dummy

So, we have great HEALTHCARE, but the system is bad? By 'system' do you mean insurance? Could you define the difference for me so I understand what you are referring to? Because I am being told we are 37th in the world in Healthcare.

Thanks for the insult as well. I have been very polite to everyone in this thread and have been called many names.

Do you not understand the nuances?

It's like this. Ferrari makes the best sportscar in the world but they aren't #1 in sales. Being #1 in a category doesn't automatically make the system perfect nor ideal. It is simply a measure of how much skill/money/technology is present. If you are super rich, then you can afford the best healthcare in the world (as well as that sports car). If you can't afford the health care, then you die because we don't have a fundamental guarantee of healthcare. The emergency room is not a viable alternative for the major killers of today, namely chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer. Or you can afford the health insurance, but go bankrupt in the process of getting well.

This article was a good read, it highlights the disparities in thinking between the US and the rest of the developed world.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215290

http://ndn1.newsweek.com/media/15/townhallface_SLAH.jpg

Republican Face.jpg

 

[Phokus]

Our lack of universal coverage has consequences. According to government and private studies, about 22,000 of our fellow Americans die each year of treatable diseases because they lack insurance and can't afford a doctor. This generally happens to people with a chronic illness who have too much money to qualify for Medicaid, but too little to pay for the drugs and treatment they need to stay alive. Among the rich nations, this happens only in America. Likewise, the U.S. is the only developed country where medical bankruptcies can happen.

Sorry to say, but we are an immoral nation (thanks GOP!)

That principle seems so obvious to people in Europe, Canada, and the East Asian democracies that health officials asked me over and over to explain why it isn't obvious to Americans as well. "The formula is so simple: health care for everybody, paid for by everybody," a deputy health minister in Sweden told me. "You Americans are so clever. Why haven't you figured that out?"

Because republicans are terrible people

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Your arguments don't make any sense. The Republicans are stonewalling on the legislation actually under consideration in the House/Senate, and then providing their own bills that they know won't pass. That's called giving yourself political cover, and it's what minority parties always do. If you think the Republicans are acting in good faith on this, you're awfully naive.

OK. Then, I guess the Democrats havent really been trying over...what was it...5 decades? It was all a PR ploy.

Fair enough.

I know you disagree with the GOP, and I somewhat disagree with the Democrats; however, to insinuate a party and those in it truly dont want whats best for the people is pretty callous. That would simply have to be a generalization made across both aisles. Period. As much as I disagree with Obama on some issues, I think deep down he really does want the United States to be a better place. Im not a conspiracy theorist, I dont think there are meetings behind closed doors on how to fuck the other guy and make a huge power grab, and although I understand many (if not most) members of congress are bought in some way or another, at the end of the day I believe they really do want to change things.

Im sorry you dont feel that way. The GOP is trying, and offering different alternatives to solve the same problem. Te fact that you dont see that, and dismiss it just because the GOP wrote the bills, truly shows your partisan stance.

Fair enough.

That's not even remotely accurate. I think that the GOP does want what's best for the country, but they believe that what's best for the country is defeating the Democrats' agenda in its entirety. This will cause them to vote against some things that they even agree with in service of this larger goal. If you read my post more closely you would see that I stated this was an attribute of the 'minority party', not specifically of the GOP. They just happen to be in the minority right now. I'm so sick of people shrieking 'partisan!' every time they get news they don't like to hear.

The GOP is presenting these bills with one goal in mind, and one goal only. That goal is so that when they are called out for having 'no ideas' on the health care issue, they can point to them. It's not like this is something new that the GOP just cooked up, it happens all the time. The only reason you never realized it before is that the bills aren't publicized... because they have zero chance of passage.

I'm sorry if this is an uncomfortable idea for you, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Why do they have a 0% chance? Because the Dems didn't come up with the idea?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Thanks for the insult as well. I have been very polite to everyone in this thread and have been called many names.

With a signature of "OneBigAssMistakeAmerika" you're hard to take seriously.

 

[zephyrprime]

Obviously it's because they've only just come back into power! Duh! an attempt to address the issue was made by clinton in his first term. After that failed, no one wanted to touch it again since it was a dead issue and not productive to address. Since then, the democrats had never had enough votes to have a chance to pass any legislation on anything. The democrats have enough votes now so that is why the issue is being addressed now.

Also, I wouldn't call obama's plan radical at all. It's too conservative in my opinion and leaves too much of the status quo in place. If it were up to me, I would totally overhaul the system to achieve maximum cost savings and total coverage.