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Why gas should be $4/gallon...

Trevelyan

Diamond Member
Well, my opinion is that a gas tax is the best solution for forcing us to reduce our dependency on foreign fuel sources. But honestly, who will ever raise this issue to the forefront? Americans hate the idea, and no matter how good of an idea it might be, no politician, Democrat or Republican, will make this hard choice because it's political suicide.

The only candidate I've heard talking about actually reducing consumption has been Mitt Romney. He doesn't favor a gas tax, and said the reason was Americans will simply never accept it. Hillary Clinton has said she wants to take a portion of oil company's profits and use that money for research. I don't know yet how I feel about that strategy, but I simply think its using oil companies as scapegoats and not really addressing the problem...

Gas prices high -- but not high enough

A stiff tax increase and $4-a-gallon fuel could end Americans' addiction to gas-hogging SUVs and curb dependence on OPEC. But don't count on politicians to line up for higher taxes.

The average price of a gallon of gas is now above $3. That's affecting some car buyers' choices, as it has done whenever gas prices have spiked in the past two years. But it's still not high enough to spur the needed transformation of the U.S. auto fleet to much higher average fuel economy.

And that brings me to gasoline taxes, the one obvious measure that would move the U.S. to energy independence from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and substantially limit U.S. exposure to the political and ideological whims of the Middle East and Venezuela.

But don't hold your breath. Republicans running for the White House are lining up to take pledges for no new taxes, no matter how badly they are needed. Connecticut is actually rolling back its state gas tax by 5 cents a gallon to throw a bone to voters. Oh boy -- 5 cents! Ridiculous!

Democrats are showing no more courage, though they are talking more about the need for greater fuel economy. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., a presidential hopeful, is pushing for carbon taxes on auto makers. But he has said recently that "direct" taxes on consumers/voters aren't (politically) feasible. So much for "Profiles in Courage."

It's working for Europe
Europe has an average fuel economy for its new-car fleet of more than 40 miles per gallon. The European Union years ago amassed support among members for high taxes on gasoline, which drove a swift migration from big cars to smaller cars and to diesel fuel. The result: less dependency on OPEC and cleaner air in the cities.

A congressional staffer told me that to get a gas-tax increase across to the American voter, the president would have to drive a bipartisan effort, with the Democratic and Republican leadership of Congress standing behind him as he addressed the country in a series of speeches explaining the need for a higher gasoline tax, and that both parties would have to sign an agreement that neither side would use the tax against the other party in ads or rhetoric.

How likely does such a photo op appear?

The rhetoric today is about hydrogen by 2030, ethanol and biofuel, carbon taxes and such. It's all about everything that puts higher fuel economy off for perhaps two decades. But we know that if we slapped a gas tax of, say, $1 to $1.50 per gallon on today's gasoline, legislated a price floor on oil of, say, $50 per barrel to keep gasoline above $4 per gallon, there would be mass trading of SUVs and pickups for smaller, more-fuel-efficient vehicles. And there would be a rapid flight of popularity for vehicles that ran on clean diesel fuel.

Auto companies would like to see this gas-tax strategy adopted. Most environmentalists support the gas tax, too. It's a proven way to achieve rapid fuel economy. Auto makers just want some predictability in the marketplace, like they got in Europe, so they know what vehicles to make for American tastes and demands. In short, they build big SUVs and high-horsepower vehicles because that's what the public wants when gas prices are low.

Gas prices are at an all-time high as the summer vacation season quickly approaches. MSN Money's Elizabeth Strott hit the streets to see how drivers feel about the pinch at the pump.

Gasoline prices have surged in recent weeks to a record nationwide average of more than $3.20 per gallon, surpassing the previous record of $3.07 per gallon set in September 2005, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

A 'gradual' shift in buying
As gas prices rise, owner loyalty in the large-pickup and midsize- and large-utility-vehicle segments drops, according to data gathered by the Power Information Network between February and April. Owner loyalty is measured by the percentage of owners in any given segment who trade for another vehicle in the same segment.

"We're seeing a broad, long-term -- but gradual -- movement to smaller vehicles," says Tom Libby, the senior director of industry analysis for the Power Information Network. "For example, during periods of high gas prices over the past two years, we've seen movement from larger to smaller SUVs. However, the total SUV pie remains largely intact."

That's a start. But consumers won't trade the Ford Expeditions, Toyota Sequoias and Chevy Tahoes that they don't need until gasoline is permanently more than $4 per gallon. The people who really need those vehicles for ranching and boat towing will buy them no matter what.

The new tax money could go to tax offsets for lower- and lower-middle-income consumers and to invest in new energy infrastructure in the U.S. That makes sense. This is not an original idea, but the gas tax could be called a "patriot tax" to exempt it from political wrangling.

But what candidate would approve that message?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/News/GasPricesHighButNotHighEnough.aspx
 
Yes, raise gas prices to 4+ dollars/gallon so that the desire for trucks and SUV's become close to nill. Then laugh as everyone who has a truck or SUV struggles to sell it so they can afford a new high mpg car while having their banks chipped away with stupid high gas prices.

The people who actually use trucks an SUV's? Screw'em!

 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: ayabe
Just going to hurt truckers

Funny you mention truckers.

Anyone else notice how diesel is less than gas the last few months?

I haven't seen diesel higher than $2.79.

not in colorado, i can see the conoco station from my window and gas is 3.38 and diesel is 3.59. diesel has been more expensive than gas for a very long time.

Edit: two weeks ago autosearch usa brought a bunch of new cars to work for us to check out. one was the Jeep Commander Diesel. me and the unix guy were like WTF why would we buy this when it gets crappy fuel milage and the price of diesel is much higher than gas.

as far as the OP. stupid idea but there has been a lot of talk on talkradio about states considering raising taxes to make up for the gas tax shortfalls many states are experiencing due to fuel sales slowing down. less money coming in so raise taxes to make up for it. :| oh and what other people have said. the only people going to be hurt are truckers and the middle/lower class by any gas tax hike.
 
Why people think govt can fix things is beyond me.

Here is a clue, our consumption does just fine at weaning us off the stuff. When it reaches a point where alternative means are economically feasible, then we will go there. Forcing the issue by using the hand of govt only hurts people on the bottom ring who wont be able to afford the food, gas to drive to work, general increases in costs as a result of moving commerce across the country.

 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Anyone else notice how diesel is less than gas the last few months?

I haven't seen diesel higher than $2.79.

Diesel is much less refined than Gasoline, Dave. It doesn't take a rocket scientist here...
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Anyone else notice how diesel is less than gas the last few months?

I haven't seen diesel higher than $2.79.

Diesel is much less refined than Gasoline, Dave. It doesn't take a rocket scientist here...

Diesel has been higher than gasoline for several months...
 
Here in Southern California Diesel has been around $3.20 and gas around $3.50 so with the cheaper price and better mileage of diesel it is looking better.
 
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Diesel has been higher than gasoline for several months...

It varies wildly. In this area, Diesel has remained considerably cheaper than unleaded gasoline, which would make sense. If it costs more in a particular area that would have to do with higher demand and or tighter supplies at those locations.
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Anyone else notice how diesel is less than gas the last few months?

I haven't seen diesel higher than $2.79.

Diesel is much less refined than Gasoline, Dave. It doesn't take a rocket scientist here...

I don't know the particulars but I think there may have been some more advanced refining techniques to produce the new "low sulfur" diesel that they are selling. So that might add to the cost of diesel.

Diesel around here(FL) has been about the same price as premium unleaded for over a year.

My town has the highest gas price in the state according to last week's paper and the county is considering adding another tax on gasoline, people are pretty pissed.
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Just going to hurt truckers and poor people.

The gas guzzling SUV set will just pay it.

The EITC can be raised to offset the lower purchasing power of the poor. This would take out the negative impact the income effect would have and only leave the substitution effect.

There could also be a cut in sales tax.
 
The EITC can be raised to offset the lower purchasing power of the poor. This would take out the negative impact the income effect would have and only leave the substitution effect.

There could also be a cut in sales tax.

Never gonna happen, Republicans would strike down the EITC raise as quick as you can blink.
 
More taxes on gas to reduce dependency and/or ultimately benefit us from an economical standpoint are simply, clearly to anybody with a brain, the stupidest thing that people are pedaling right now and yet more evidence that I live on the same planet as people with no clue whatsover. If a person needs this explained to them, they're simply not worthy of knowing anyway, so I'll let people continue to think it's a good idea if they currently do.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
More taxes on gas to reduce dependency and/or ultimately benefit us from an economical standpoint are simply, clearly to anybody with a brain, the stupidest thing that people are pedaling right now and yet more evidence that I live on the same planet as people with no clue whatsover. If a person needs this explained to them, they're simply not worthy of knowing anyway, so I'll let people continue to think it's a good idea if they currently do.

LOL harsh 🙂
 
heh - is funny how people working together to b!tch about gas price.. would be nice if took some the effort get rid of some corruption in our country. between this actually my fourth forum I have vist today theres topic about gas prices, beside hammering on the news.
yep I don't own a car so no worry for me I have my train and buses if that fail ride bicycle.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
More taxes on gas to reduce dependency and/or ultimately benefit us from an economical standpoint are simply, clearly to anybody with a brain, the stupidest thing that people are pedaling right now and yet more evidence that I live on the same planet as people with no clue whatsover. If a person needs this explained to them, they're simply not worthy of knowing anyway, so I'll let people continue to think it's a good idea if they currently do.

Well, its working for me atleast. I use mass transit whenever/wherever I can. And when I move to a new area, I am willing to pay a premium for something very close to mass transit. Why? Because I'm tired of paying ~$50 to fill up my tank... I've turned my car from a necessity to a luxury and the high gas prices are to thank for that.

Maybe if you live in an area with little or no mass transit, higher gas prices are just an annoyance but not for me...
 
Gas will hit $4 a gallon within the next couple years, it's the $5 mark that we have to look forward to. It's not until $5 or $6 a gallon that other energy sources get cost parity with gas.
 
You can't legislate a paradigm shift in techology, which is essentially what you are suggesting. Developing a suitable alternative fuel takes time, not just money. I will also predict that gas will be $4/gallon very soon even without such a tax.

Why does America resist the change to alternative fuels? I will use myself as a case study. I bought my car 10 years ago. It gets ~25 miles/gallon. I fill up about twice a month, ~11 gallons per fillup. Even though I only pull in $18,200 per year before taxes, I can easily afford the $1,056 that it would cost me to fill my car at $4/gal for a year. Sure, it would be starting to impinge on my bottom line, but it's still not a big enough deal for me to buy a new car that depends on a new fuel source.

So, it's pretty clear that a few things have to happen for the mass deployment of a new fuel:
1. Huge infrastructure investment. The capital costs here are enormous, regardless of what type of fuel you want to talk about.
2. Cheap fuel - significantly cheaper than gasoline. So much cheaper that people would actually be willing to buy a new vehicle that could use this new fuel source.
3. Reasonable assurance that the new fuel would be around for a while.
 
Originally posted by: tehtank
Yes, raise gas prices to 4+ dollars/gallon so that the desire for trucks and SUV's become close to nill. Then laugh as everyone who has a truck or SUV struggles to sell it so they can afford a new high mpg car while having their banks chipped away with stupid high gas prices.

The people who actually use trucks an SUV's? Screw'em!

you obviously don't know the mindset here, most people I know with a SUV won't blink till it goes past $5. Hell, then you have the RV gang, they don't care much either. My parents just spent 5 weeks on the road, 6054 miles at 7mpg. Didn't phase them, they aren't alone.

People will travel, they will drive, its part of their freedom. They will give up other things before they give up even their SUVs.

Now, it will force the lower income image oriented drivers of SUVs to switch. You know exactly the type I am talking about, live in aparments, drive Slades and Navis with RIMS costing more than they earn in a month.


As for Hitlary, villifying the oil companies relies on the ignorance and even jealously of the American people. Its easy to make it out that they are exploiting when for the most part people don't understand how business operates.

1.2 BILLION gallons of gasoline were sold this 3 day weekend. She wants to take some of their profits for research? HELLLOOOO. Those profits are feeding the 401ks of tens of millions of retirees. So in other words, she wants to take more of your money and hope your dumb enough to believe it really came from eveel corporations.

Trouble is, there are those on this forum who believe it.
 
You can't raise gas prices without affecting everyone, even those that drive hybrids. Most goods are delivered by semis (giant gas-guzzlers). They deliver your food, clothes etc. If gas prices go up, so does the cost of every other good or service.
 
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