Why Gameworks is detrimental to Pc Gaming

[The Alias]

Okay, if you don't get the concept that as new gamers come out old hardware gets less efficient, I guess there is nothing really to discuss. You came in here acting like HD 7850 couldn't run games today and some how NV made your purchase obsolete. You got various posters saying "turn off settings, it's normal" you flip it saying "nah, I bought mid-range I should be able to get max settings!"

So have at it. Enjoy your card.

You guys missed the point entirely and it started with shintaidk strawmaning my original argument. My point was that with Gameworks it takes multiple $300 purchases to do what one $200 purchase did from 2012-2014. That's your guy's fault for taking shintaidk's bogus interpretation and running with it.

 

[railven]

You guys missed the point entirely and it started with shintaidk strawmaning my original argument. My point was that with Gameworks it takes multiple $300 purchases to do what one $200 purchase did from 2012-2014. That's your guy's fault for taking shintaidk's bogus interpretation and running with it.

Of course it does, Gameworks is something on top of the game that Nvidia does to PUSH their products. That doesn't become "detrimental to PC Gaming" because it isn't required to continue to play these games.

Hardware eventually becomes obsolete, that is a given. Old Hardware struggles more with NV's new API.

<mindblown.gif>

That's how they make money! If you don't like that, you don't need to use it. But your card is already 3 years old, don't expect it to carry mugh weight going forward.

 

[The Alias]

<br />
ilven;37553502]Of course it does, Gameworks is something on top of the game that Nvidia does to PUSH their products. That doesn't become &quot;detrimental to PC Gaming&quot; because it isn't required to continue to play these games.<br />
<br />
Hardware eventually becomes obsolete, that is a given. Old Hardware struggles more with NV's new API.<br />
<br />
&lt;mindblown.gif&gt;<br />
<br />
That's how they make money! If you don't like that, you don't need to use it. But your card is already 3 years old, don't expect it to carry mugh weight going forward.

<br />
My 7850 once again has nothing to do with the topic. Secondly it's amazing that you can admit the purpose of gameworks (to push their hardware) yet still not admit I'm correct. Gameworks pushes hardware to it's limits yet doesn't add anything of true value to the gaming experience! In other words, it needlessly taxes hardware! How can you admit that something that needlessly taxes hardware, then in the same post say it's not detrimental to gaming???

 

[3DVagabond]

<br />
My 7850 once again has nothing to do with the topic. Secondly it's amazing that you can admit the purpose of gameworks (to push their hardware) yet still not admit I'm correct. Gameworks pushes hardware to it's limits yet doesn't add anything of true value to the gaming experience! In other words, it needlessly taxes hardware! How can you admit that something that needlessly taxes hardware, then in the same post say it's not detrimental to gaming???

Did you know AMD is far worse running Furmark than nVidia? To some here that's a meaningful spec. Depends on the agenda. nVidia can be 7% faster and it completely obsoletes AMD. Made the 980 worth $100's more than the 290X When it's reversed though AMD has to be much cheaper or they aren't competitive. Even if their card is double digits faster.

It's really to bad when someone wants to have a discussion it turns out as an attack on the individual. The ignore button is really the only defense.

 

[SPBHM]

<br />
My 7850 once again has nothing to do with the topic. Secondly it's amazing that you can admit the purpose of gameworks (to push their hardware) yet still not admit I'm correct. Gameworks pushes hardware to it's limits yet doesn't add anything of true value to the gaming experience! In other words, it needlessly taxes hardware! How can you admit that something that needlessly taxes hardware, then in the same post say it's not detrimental to gaming???

most gameworks stuff can be disabled to get the original content from the consoles version anyway... I don't think it changes things much for midrange/lowend cards...

 

[The Alias]

most gameworks stuff can be disabled to get the original content from the consoles version anyway... I don't think it changes things much for midrange/lowend cards...

I don't understand how you can read and quote my post and not see read that I specifically said my 7850 has nothing to do with the argument.... It's baffling

 

[railven]

<br />
My 7850 once again has nothing to do with the topic. Secondly it's amazing that you can admit the purpose of gameworks (to push their hardware) yet still not admit I'm correct. Gameworks pushes hardware to it's limits yet doesn't add anything of true value to the gaming experience! In other words, it needlessly taxes hardware! How can you admit that something that needlessly taxes hardware, then in the same post say it's not detrimental to gaming???

Which is why I said I didn't understand where you were coming form, instead of re-addressing your concern you propelled me by citing your HD 7850's performance in the charts I was linking.

Computer games move forward, most often requiring more performance because they use different techniques (more tessellation here or there, higher textures, etc etc). You can't expect PC games to stay stagnant and offer the same performance today they did yesterday for a card that is already showing it's age.

What was acceptable 3 years ago for mid-range isn't today. Which is what people have been saying.

What were your expectations? When you cite that you need more than a HD 7850 today versus yesterday, people are going to tell you its time to upgrade. Plain and simple, and this has nothing to do with Nvidia:

TWO AMD sponsored game, same card, notice the performance drop:

That is a gaming Evolved Title, thus AMD sponsored. Yet, there is still a severe performance drop going from BF3 to BF4. You can argue that the IQ isn't different, people will disagree. But there is raw data.

Did you know AMD is far worse running Furmark than nVidia? To some here that's a meaningful spec. Depends on the agenda. nVidia can be 7% faster and it completely obsoletes AMD. Made the 980 worth $100's more than the 290X When it's reversed though AMD has to be much cheaper or they aren't competitive. Even if their card is double digits faster.

It's really to bad when someone wants to have a discussion it turns out as an attack on the individual. The ignore button is really the only defense.

Total agree with him here! I highly recommend it too

 

[The Alias]

Which is why I said I didn't understand where you were coming form, instead of re-addressing your concern you propelled me by citing your HD 7850's performance in the charts I was linking.

Computer games move forward, most often requiring more performance because they use different techniques (more tessellation here or there, higher textures, etc etc). You can't expect PC games to stay stagnant and offer the same performance today they did yesterday for a card that is already showing it's age.

What was acceptable 3 years ago for mid-range isn't today. Which is what people have been saying.

What were your expectations? When you cite that you need more than a HD 7850 today versus yesterday, people are going to tell you its time to upgrade. Plain and simple, and this has nothing to do with Nvidia:

TWO AMD sponsored game, same card, notice the performance drop:

That is a gaming Evolved Title, thus AMD sponsored. Yet, there is still a severe performance drop going from BF3 to BF4. You can argue that the IQ isn't different, people will disagree. But there is raw data.



Total agree with him here! I highly recommend it too

You missed the point my issue is not that I need to upgrade. My issue is the value that I got from a $200 card is no longer available in today's lineup because games are needlessly stressful and gameworks is the major reason for this issue!

 

[SPBHM]

You missed the point my issue is not that I need to upgrade. My issue is the value that I got from a $200 card is no longer available in today's lineup because games are needlessly stressful and gameworks is the major reason for this issue!

I think the new gen of consoles and 28nm process is the issue, not gameworks.

AMD just relaunched your card rebranded as r9 370

gameworks is really only affecting the high end.

 

[railven]

I think the new gen of consoles and 28nm process is the issue, not gameworks.

AMD just relaunched your card rebranded as r9 370

gameworks is really only affecting the high end.

I don't even know what else I can say. I doubt mentioning the prolonged node issue would make sense. So at this point, really...a GTX 970 is like ~$50 more than what a HD 7850 cost at launch and it's twice as fast.

I don't understand what he's expecting?

 

[boozzer]

game works is the devil, so NV is also the devil.:twisted:

 

[railven]

game works is the devil, so NV is also the devil.:twisted:

Of course, but no one is denying that. Haha.

 

[The Alias]

I don't even know what else I can say. I doubt mentioning the prolonged node issue would make sense. So at this point, really...a GTX 970 is like ~$50 more than what a HD 7850 cost at launch and it's twice as fast.

I don't understand what he's expecting?

You buy a 970 @ $350 then next year Pascal and a new round of gw titles come out making your 970 obsolete then you buy a 1070 @ $350 then rinse and repeat vs the 7850 which lasted for 2 years doing the same thing the 970 did for $100 less. This is Gameworks.

 

[railven]

You buy a 970 @ $350 then next year Pascal and a new round of gw titles come out making your 970 obsolete then you buy a 1070 @ $350 then rinse and repeat vs the 7850 which lasted for 2 years doing the same thing the 970 did for $100 less. This is Gameworks.

That crystal ball must be nice!

And woof, that $300 EVGA ACX2 970 sold out!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487086

You can always go Radeon?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...4 &IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

 

[FearfulSPARTAN]

You buy a 970 @ $350 then next year Pascal and a new round of gw titles come out making your 970 obsolete then you buy a 1070 @ $350 then rinse and repeat vs the 7850 which lasted for 2 years doing the same thing the 970 did for $100 less. This is Gameworks.

You know not every game uses gameworks

 

[railven]

You known not every game uses gameworks

Of course they do, shhhhh!

 

[The Alias]

That crystal ball must be nice!

And woof, that $300 EVGA ACX2 970 sold out!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487086

You can always go Radeon?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...4 &IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

It doesn't take a crystal ball to see what Gameworks does Kepler and see that predict that'll happen to maxwell

 

[railven]

It doesn't take a crystal ball to see what Gameworks does Kepler and see that predict that'll happen to maxwell

Yeah, yeah it does, because with out the ball the prediction is rather meaningless and just FUD.

 

[The Alias]

Yeah, yeah it does, because with out the ball the prediction is rather meaningless and just FUD.

Not fud if gameworks has been shown to do it in game after game

 

[frozentundra123456]

I do agree that it does take a relatively higher end gpu to run games now than a few years ago. However, the problem seems to me to be more that we are in the early stage of the console cycle while when the ops 7850 came out the consoles were old and the hardware in the consoles was much weaker compared to gpus of the day than it is now. Now gameworks undoubtedly is demanding and favors nVidia hardware, but blaming it for all the increased demands seems oversimplistic and unjustified. For instance, Dragon Age Inquisition was one of the new games that is quite demanding, and you can hardly blame gameworks for that.

 

[2is]

You all missed the point of me saying using the 7850. I say that because back then, it was mid to low tier, but still able to play most games at near max settings. Now you need a 290/390 which is undoubtedly high tier to play games at near max settings. The cost of the same settings has gone up which gameworks played a major part in.

In your 7850's hey day, the lowest common detonator were an ageing PS3/360, so yeah, it's no surprise it lasted so long through so many games. Now we are working with much more powerful consoles with a ton of VRAM, not to mention we are at the point where it's still fairly early in the development cycle, but late enough to where developers are figuring out how to best utilize the hardware, so games at this stage will be advancing much faster.

Honestly, as a PC gamer, what more do you want? Games are advancing at a relatively rapid rate, we are about to get DX12 for even further advancements, the hardware necessary to run these games is there. The main reason PC is my platform of choice is that it's much more fluid than consoles. If you want hardware that will last 7 years and you don't have to worry about Gameworks, you have two options. I'm sure you know what they are.

 

[2is]

I do agree that it does take a relatively higher end gpu to run games now than a few years ago. However, the problem seems to me to be more that we are in the early stage of the console cycle while when the ops 7850 came out the consoles were old and the hardware in the consoles was much weaker compared to gpus of the day than it is now. Now gameworks undoubtedly is demanding and favors nVidia hardware, but blaming it for all the increased demands seems oversimplistic and unjustified. For instance, Dragon Age Inquisition was one of the new games that is quite demanding, and you can hardly blame gameworks for that.

You beat me to it.

 

[railven]

If you want hardware that will last 7 years and you don't have to worry about Gameworks, you have two options. I'm sure you know what they are.

As someone who has those options, I'm back to PC gaming more than ever. Woof did they underestimate their hardware goals.

At least devs are funneling games I want to PC now

 

[railven]

Wow, talk about timing:

http://mmofallout.com/despite-claims-of-rampant-piracy-pc-accounts-for-25-of-ubisoft-sales/

Ubisoft has released their first quarter sales figures for the 2015-2016 fiscal year with results that are better than expected. While the company had forecast earnings of &#8364;80 million, the company actually pulled in &#8364;96.6 million. Sales have been strong thanks to the performance of Assassin&#8217;s Creed as well as continued sales of Far Cry, Watch Dogs, and The Crew. As far as platforms go, digital revenues more than doubled from 23% to 56% of total sales over last year.

Digital Sales doubled! In fact, PC sales are now greater than Xbone sales. And, Far Cry 4, Watch Dogs, and The Crew were all Gameworks games if I recall.

Devs are seeing growth in the PC sector, why some are even getting in bed with Nvidia. Same way they were getting in bed with Microsoft during Xbox dominance and now Sony with PS4 dominance. They go where the money is.

EDIT: Wow, PC outselling PS3/Xbox360/Xbone (not combined just those platforms) only losing to PS4. Interesting.

Geographically speaking, Europe and North America still hold the majority of sales while the &#8216;rest of the world&#8217; has grown from 12% last year to 20% of market share this year. On platforms, the Playstation 4 is in a clear lead over the Xbox One (27% compared to 11%), with the latter bringing in as many sales as the old generation of consoles (360 and PS3, 11% each) while the Wii and WiiU combined only accounted for 3%.

The PC, on the other hand, has seen a major growth in revenue share, from 14% last year to 23% this year, giving it more than twice the sales of the Xbox One. The results are even more impressive if you believe Ubisoft&#8217;s estimation from 2012 that the PC has a 95% piracy rate.

If Gameworks was detrimental to PC Gaming, Ubisoft isn't feeling the hurt.

EDIT #2: I'd love to see WB's after the Batman fiasco though. Woof!

 

[futurefields]

I agree Gameworks stuff seems too heavy on the GPU. Forcing 64x tessellation is a joke.

But, just disable it.

You know the consoles don't use Gameworks stuff right? If you are worried about keeping up with PS4 you should have gotten a better gpu as it has a stronger gpu than 7850 and is also a closed-platform console which means devs can exploit every single stream processor in the GPU to max potential whereas on PC games devs have to approximate using quality settings.