Why Explore Ancient Space???

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

You can't build a jet unless you know the fundamental dynamics of flight.

Yes I do know terraforming would be involved and many others things would be needed as well. I expect it to be involved as it would be pointless from a technological standpoint to colonize a planet that presented us with no opportunity to expand our technological base.

I will accept a limitation that as long as our peering into the past does not affect our ability to move as strongly and quickly into our future then I am ok with it.

See that is where you don't get it. The hot air ballon is fundamentally different than the jet and neither has to be invented before the other in order to come into existance. Only the idea of flight has to be there.

You keep saying that you want to see goals that would be accomplished in three generations. I have news for you the terraforming of Mars would take thousands of millennia and for what? So we could find oi, gold, diamonds?

Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
I do think it is a great idea to wax philosophic about. Looking at a far off star to realize that it could be gone and we wouldnt know for millions of years more.

Personally it buggers the hell out of me. For all we know we could be the only galaxy left in the universe and won't know for another 169,113 years if this is still false. That is the time it takes for light to travel from the Large Magellanic Cloud, closest galaxylike object, to Earth.

That is where the exploration of deep space comes into play. We can predict what will be there and what will not on a large scale only to be refined with further exploration.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: BannedTroll
The problem is the things you mention were determined to be pointless long ago with the exception of keeping interest up.

Well, I haven't done a whole lot of studying on the economics of the situation, but would a Mars base provide price access to the mineral rich asteroid belt? It may be cheaper to mine them, refine the materials on Mars, and ship them back to Earth than to do everything on Earth.

Only after Earth's recources were nearing completion. The only hope for profitable mining would be H3 on the moon.

We don't know that, technology has been one of the cheif reasons for making things that were not profitable suddenly very profitable.

Like? Would you care to site some examples of resources on Mars that don't exist on Earth?

Does it really matter if the resources on mars are the same or different than those on earth? I don't think so as long as they are usable by industry. That is what matters.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

You can't build a jet unless you know the fundamental dynamics of flight.

Yes I do know terraforming would be involved and many others things would be needed as well. I expect it to be involved as it would be pointless from a technological standpoint to colonize a planet that presented us with no opportunity to expand our technological base.

I will accept a limitation that as long as our peering into the past does not affect our ability to move as strongly and quickly into our future then I am ok with it.

See that is where you don't get it. The hot air ballon is fundamentally different than the jet and neither has to be invented before the other in order to come into existance. Only the idea of flight has to be there.

You keep saying that you want to see goals that would be accomplished in three generations. I have news for you the terraforming of Mars would take thousands of millennia and for what? So we could find oi, gold, diamonds?

Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: shimsham
you could also say not knowing could be dangerous. we could run out of time to fully digest and apply what knowledge it does bring.

the earth is done in 4 billion years. it could take us 3 billion just to figure out how to get out of here, which leaves us 1 billion to apply that knowledge practically do that. why waste time? wouldnt it be better to be prepared and have it solved befoe then, if possible?

If it takes us 3 billion years just to move off this planet I think we deserve our own destruction...

Do we? It has taken us this long to evolve to the point where we can think about such things.

By the brilliance of technology we may even be able to dream even further too.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius
Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

As long as you learn a lesson which allows for the next try to be more successful then nothing is lost. Besides we have to start somehwhere.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius
Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

As long as you learn a lesson which allows for the next try to be more successful then nothing is lost. Besides we have to start somehwhere.

What lesson have we learned? That we cannot effectively control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained enviroment? How is that going to help?



Edit: to me the idea of establishibng/finding wormholes and interstellar travel is more plausible than playing God. It will be easiar to finding and traveling to a planet capable of sustaining life than creating our own.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius
Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

As long as you learn a lesson which allows for the next try to be more successful then nothing is lost. Besides we have to start somehwhere.

What lesson have we learned? That we cannot effectively control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained enviroment? How is that going to help?

well we learned that we cannot control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained environment. Now we have learned something. Now we go insearch of a method to resolve this problem.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius
Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

As long as you learn a lesson which allows for the next try to be more successful then nothing is lost. Besides we have to start somehwhere.

What lesson have we learned? That we cannot effectively control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained enviroment? How is that going to help?

well we learned that we cannot control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained environment. Now we have learned something. Now we go insearch of a method to resolve this problem.

See edit (also I doubt you can resolve this problem)

If only it were that easy. An ecosystem is not easy to creat It would be easier to protect against the harms of an existing ecosystem.


The true discoveries will be in our ability to adapt (genes) and interstellar travel.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius
Well first off you wouldn't need to terraform mars just for mining. Colonization can occur in structured buildings that provide protection from the otherwise hostile environment outside. Now as well these things and terraforming can occur concurrently. As technology improves the rate of terraforming can be accomplished at ever increasing rates. Who know at the rate of technological growth of the last 50 years we could have another earth in 1 and a half generations.

ummmmm....we can't even build self sufficient enviroments on earth.

As long as you learn a lesson which allows for the next try to be more successful then nothing is lost. Besides we have to start somehwhere.

What lesson have we learned? That we cannot effectively control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained enviroment? How is that going to help?

well we learned that we cannot control the effect/amount of bacteria in a small contained environment. Now we have learned something. Now we go insearch of a method to resolve this problem.

See edit (also I doubt you can resolve this problem)

If only it were that easy. An ecosystem is not easy to creat It would be easier to protect against the harms of an existing ecosystem.


The true discoveries will be in our ability to adapt (genes) and interstellar travel.

As to edit: Agreed, tho it is always better to be as technologically prepared as possible.

Well at least we agree that we need the technology to do this before we start jumping billions of light years into the distant beyond.

 

[DangerAardvark]

169,000 years is inconsequential on a cosmic scale.

So, the likelyhood that an entire galaxy just decides to up and leave in the span of 169,000 years is... well let's just say it's remote. BUT, if something like that did happen, I'd say that it would be pretty good evidence for the existence of god.

 

[judasmachine]

besides this is why cartography is so important to the federation, as they can't rely on obseved light, cause they can get to the star before the light can get to them.

 

[bendixG15]

Conclusively proving religion wrong beyond any shadow of a doubt would do some very good things for the human race

Scientific proof would not do much to reduce religeous beliefs.
Religion is based on Faith, not science.

 

[Fritzo]

I think you have a strange way of thinking...

We're trying to understand processes out there. Who CARES when they happened???

 

[torpid]

Erm... you say you take longer to make sure you are clear, yet somehow I found your posts to be somewhat dense and hard to comprehend easily.

Anyway, we are learning a LOT about physics, astrophysics, etc. by looking to the stars. I believe it was last year that we discovered something that is believed to have recently been a black hole.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: werk
Finiding concrete evidence of intelligent life outside our own planet, even if it "blew itself up 100,000 years ago," is worth it, IMO.

You must be a very lonely person to need that kind of validation that we as a species are not alone.

No, some of us want to pursue knowledge just for knowledge sakes. Not any reason to validate our life.

Do you not find it fascinating that we can basically look back in time and see the formation of our universe as we know it?
Obviously you are not a scientists and thank God for that. People like you would have us stagnate. In fact we need to make sure we keep people like you as far away from science as we can.

 

[bharok]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Think of Astronomy charts as a road map for space as you will. Now road maps may become outdated, new roads may be built and old ones may be torn out. But the general map changes very little from year to year. Humans will travel among the galaxy evenutaly (though probably not soon). And an outdated map is better than no map at all.

except it is not possible to go there
you can't travel faster than the speed of light
so any one would be long dead before getting there

 

[DannyLove]

Why? Because exploring exerts potential within humans, to "reach" those limits. Look at our TECHNOLOGY, for crying out loud. I don't know about you, but if you're a subscriber to Popular Science, you'll see a lot of space technology created. Most of which was created to reach those limits, now used and taken into other accounts. Why Explore Ancient Space? Because we can...

and on a personal note, because its FACINATING!!!

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: werk
Finiding concrete evidence of intelligent life outside our own planet, even if it "blew itself up 100,000 years ago," is worth it, IMO.

You must be a very lonely person to need that kind of validation that we as a species are not alone.

No, some of us want to pursue knowledge just for knowledge sakes. Not any reason to validate our life.

Do you not find it fascinating that we can basically look back in time and see the formation of our universe as we know it?
Obviously you are not a scientists and thank God for that. People like you would have us stagnate. In fact we need to make sure we keep people like you as far away from science as we can.

Obviously you didn't read all my posts.... :disgust:

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: DannyLove
Why? Because exploring exerts potential within humans, to "reach" those limits. Look at our TECHNOLOGY, for crying out loud. I don't know about you, but if you're a subscriber to Popular Science, you'll see a lot of space technology created. Most of which was created to reach those limits, now used and taken into other accounts. Why Explore Ancient Space? Because we can...

and on a personal note, because its FACINATING!!!

Again the intent of my question was is it best for us to be out there expanding into our solar system as opposed to exclusivly studying places we can never visit or possibly ever reach in the next 3 generations?

Yes I agree it is facinating but still I advocate expansion out into our solar system as opposed to what I see as a permanent mind set on just sitting here on earth and twiddling our thumbs looking up at the skies.

 

[DannyLove]

Like i said, it doesn't matter whether we will reach it in 3 generations, perhaps gathering the data now will the 5th generation be able to reach it. See where I am going? Also, like i said, the technology and knowledge that is being disovered / created is enough...

 

[g8wayrebel]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Evadman
If that took 30 minutes to write, you need to take a typing class.

And we do because we can, have to. When you understand that, you understand all.

It took 30 minutes to write not because I am a slow typist but rather because I like to make sure my writing is concise and readable. (Unlike someeone who starts a sentance with "and".) I like to edit my writing as a courtesy to others so they do not have to straing to understand or interpret what I wrote without having to guess at what I meant to say. I took a typing class and aced it. Thanks!

I couldn't help but quote this "concise" post with that "sentance" and all the "strainging" going on.
How is it that you can concieve being able to see 300,000 light years into the past to a lifeform that may have blown itself up 100,000 light years ago and not realize we would also be able to see that. I don't see how you can miss the significant science of knowing our origin, or that of our universe. Beside that, each day our technology improves to the point that we eventually will go to the places we are seeing now.I don't know about you, but I think we are a lot better off now that we aren't chasing horses.
I just noticed, I also missed "someeone", not to mention the run on, repetitively redundant sentence.
What a clown. I hope you don't reproduce. If you want to get "concise", even if you start a sentence with" and", the period still goes inside the mark on a sentence ending in a quote.:roll:
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quote:
Originally posted by: coolVariable
Please why did you post?



Let me ask you this where do you think i should have posted this? Highly technical? No because this does not involve anything highly technical. Stop being a post nazi and either contribute or quit wasting bandwidth and click somewhere else.

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If you know it. SHOW IT!
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Why did you post this? Not why did you post it in this topic!
The only thing you've shown is that you're an idiot

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: OOBradm
Simply - the quest for knowledge and understanding.

If humans as a whole didnt possess this one single attribute, we'd still be swinging clubs

Saved me the time of typing. Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Jigga
Because a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...

Lol, thank you for redeeming this thread for me.

 

[TheGreenGoblin]

Correct me if I'm wrong , but I thought the closest star to our sun (Proxima Centauri) was only 5 light years away , and that there are most likely planets in that system too. 5 light years is still damn far given our level of technology , but it's a lot closer than 169 000 light years.