Why Explore Ancient Space???

[preslove]

Warping space time could allow for faster than light and time travel. That just takes a sh!t ton of energy.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Think of Astronomy charts as a road map for space as you will. Now road maps may become outdated, new roads may be built and old ones may be torn out. But the general map changes very little from year to year. Humans will travel among the galaxy evenutaly (though probably not soon). And an outdated map is better than no map at all.

True yes, but still I really wish we would focus more here in our own solar system instead of wasting resources on looking furhter out to things that are of not direct benefit to mankind. Sure explore if you plan to be able to get there with in the next 3 generations or less but beyond that focus on building up here where we are.

In order to establish a baseline for those around 3 generations from now to possibly to be able to travel to those regions of space, you have to begin observing it with what we have now. If you don't look now, when? By observing now, we may discover something (wormholes, etc) that may make future travel possible.

Ignoring that, the wealth of knowledge gained about the universe and how it works, expands, contracts, etc is well worth it.

My question to you is this, is looking at stellar objects 3 billion, heck even 1000 years, away with in 3 generations or beyond that?

 

[OulOat]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: OulOat

Originally posted by: gutharius
Facts:
- Speed of light in miles per second: 186,282 mps (miles per second)

- Distance to nearest galaxy like system: 169,000 Light Years

Given that light is like a transmitted image being sent out into space that is picked up by our telescopes here on Earth. Why is it that we are currently, right now, even making an effort to study images that were created and sent out into space 169,000 years ago? I mean what is the point? For all we know this galaxy died out 69,000 years ago and we will have to wait 69,000 years before the light created by such and event, or lack there of, will reach earth and is visible to us. This is why I think space exploration outside our own solar system at our current technological ability is pointless. The data you get is data that is irrelevant to the present because it is so old. Especially in the sense of searching for extraterstrial life. Say tomorrow our telescopes see a solar system 300,000 light years away that shows definiate signs of life, just hypothetically speaking here. That meas that 300,000 years ago there was a planet that had signs of intelligent life. Great but hardly useful since for all we know they blew themselves up 100,000 years ago and we still have yet to see that this has occured as the images of light from such an event, if any light at all, will not arrive here on earth for another 100,000 years.

I don't know it just seems so pointless to divert precious monies into exploring parts of space we will never be able to reap any direct benefit from. Instead of working on moving out from our own planet in to the surrounding space and learning more and more about the solar system we live in and CAN reap direct benefits from.

What say you?

Cliff Notes:
If I spent 30 minutes to write this you can spend 5 minutes reading it.

So basically what you are trying to say is that Columbus and Magellan should have stayed home...

No because it didn't take Columbus 60,000 years to get to America and we know that in space you can't fall off the edge.

You are using today's knowldge. A) He didn't know for a fact that the world was round, only that he thought so. B) I don't know about you, but spending months in completely uncharted and unfamiliar territory would be a long time to anyone.

Also, I don't get what you are griping over. In the first paragraph you appear to feel that instruments such as the Hubble space telescope is a waste of money, but in the second paragraph you change it to deep space exploration robots. Which one is it?

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Think of Astronomy charts as a road map for space as you will. Now road maps may become outdated, new roads may be built and old ones may be torn out. But the general map changes very little from year to year. Humans will travel among the galaxy evenutaly (though probably not soon). And an outdated map is better than no map at all.

True yes, but still I really wish we would focus more here in our own solar system instead of wasting resources on looking furhter out to things that are of not direct benefit to mankind. Sure explore if you plan to be able to get there with in the next 3 generations or less but beyond that focus on building up here where we are.

In order to establish a baseline for those around 3 generations from now to possibly to be able to travel to those regions of space, you have to begin observing it with what we have now. If you don't look now, when? By observing now, we may discover something (wormholes, etc) that may make future travel possible.

Ignoring that, the wealth of knowledge gained about the universe and how it works, expands, contracts, etc is well worth it.

My question to you is this, is looking at stellar objects 3 billion, heck even 1000 years, away with in 3 generations or beyond that?

Huh?

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll
Are you retarded?

Simply; The past is the future and it may eventually answer the big question and many.

Which would be?

No I am not retarded, just ready for mankind to take root in the larger solar system.

You should show some respect for others tho...

First why would I respect you?




Anyway what would be the benefit of moving throughout our own solar system?

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: blahblah99
People look into outer space because the further we can see, the longer the universe has been around, unless, light folds itself at the edges of the universe and redirects itself.

Or the universe is constantly revealing itself as the light from the farthest reaches of space reaches our ability to see it here. Either way when we look out at the farthest reaches of space we see nothing. Emtpiness. That does not mean that there is nothing there just that we can't see it. Either way I see it as a method of diversion that actually stepping foot out into our solar system and learning more about how our system was formed and what has happened in its past. How did water for on mars? Since there was water on mars was there life? If there was life would there be remains of it left in some form, any form? These are the direct benefits I see, here, in our own solar system. If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

uhh..we have to start somewhere right? it's the ONLY thing we can look at anyways. the stuff is interesting.

if there's no point in looking at what's up there, then what's the point of figuring out anything at all?

your reasoning is weak. stop posting thanks

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: preslove
Warping space time could allow for faster than light and time travel. That just takes a sh!t ton of energy.

This is as your have admitted, through inuendo, hypothetical at best and still not provens as we still have to even prove the string theory, in some small shred of a way, before we can even dream of work on this.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: blahblah99
People look into outer space because the further we can see, the longer the universe has been around, unless, light folds itself at the edges of the universe and redirects itself.

Or the universe is constantly revealing itself as the light from the farthest reaches of space reaches our ability to see it here. Either way when we look out at the farthest reaches of space we see nothing. Emtpiness. That does not mean that there is nothing there just that we can't see it. Either way I see it as a method of diversion that actually stepping foot out into our solar system and learning more about how our system was formed and what has happened in its past. How did water for on mars? Since there was water on mars was there life? If there was life would there be remains of it left in some form, any form? These are the direct benefits I see, here, in our own solar system. If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

Who told you we see nothing?



Oh and I believe there are currentlly two rovers on Mars. Don't quote me on that though its just something I saw on one of those conspiracy theory sites.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: OulOat

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: OulOat

Originally posted by: gutharius
Facts:
- Speed of light in miles per second: 186,282 mps (miles per second)

- Distance to nearest galaxy like system: 169,000 Light Years

Given that light is like a transmitted image being sent out into space that is picked up by our telescopes here on Earth. Why is it that we are currently, right now, even making an effort to study images that were created and sent out into space 169,000 years ago? I mean what is the point? For all we know this galaxy died out 69,000 years ago and we will have to wait 69,000 years before the light created by such and event, or lack there of, will reach earth and is visible to us. This is why I think space exploration outside our own solar system at our current technological ability is pointless. The data you get is data that is irrelevant to the present because it is so old. Especially in the sense of searching for extraterstrial life. Say tomorrow our telescopes see a solar system 300,000 light years away that shows definiate signs of life, just hypothetically speaking here. That meas that 300,000 years ago there was a planet that had signs of intelligent life. Great but hardly useful since for all we know they blew themselves up 100,000 years ago and we still have yet to see that this has occured as the images of light from such an event, if any light at all, will not arrive here on earth for another 100,000 years.

I don't know it just seems so pointless to divert precious monies into exploring parts of space we will never be able to reap any direct benefit from. Instead of working on moving out from our own planet in to the surrounding space and learning more and more about the solar system we live in and CAN reap direct benefits from.

What say you?

Cliff Notes:
If I spent 30 minutes to write this you can spend 5 minutes reading it.

So basically what you are trying to say is that Columbus and Magellan should have stayed home...

No because it didn't take Columbus 60,000 years to get to America and we know that in space you can't fall off the edge.

You are using today's knowldge. A) He didn't know for a fact that the world was round, only that he thought so. B) I don't know about you, but spending months in completely uncharted and unfamiliar territory would be a long time to anyone.

Also, I don't get what you are griping over. In the first paragraph you appear to feel that instruments such as the Hubble space telescope is a waste of money, but in the second paragraph you change it to deep space exploration robots. Which one is it?

I never said anything about robots. Just to reintereate my point, "it just seems so pointless to divert precious monies into exploring parts of space we will never be able to reap any direct benefit from. Instead of working on moving out from our own planet in to the surrounding space and learning more and more about the solar system we live in and CAN reap direct benefits from."

As far as columbus is concerned my argument is a distance and time thing. If we had the ability to travel to another solar system with in our lifespan then fine lets go for it. other wise lets get our selves established so we can develop the base line for doing this.

 

[everman]

Ok I understand your point of view, but I don't exactly agree with it. I believe deep space exploration is very important. However I wish there was more like 40 robots exploring mars right now instead of a hand full, and just more exploration of our neighboring planets overall. I'm sure this will happen eventually, China specifically seems very interested in the "exploitation of space", as I believe they have put it.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Think of Astronomy charts as a road map for space as you will. Now road maps may become outdated, new roads may be built and old ones may be torn out. But the general map changes very little from year to year. Humans will travel among the galaxy evenutaly (though probably not soon). And an outdated map is better than no map at all.

True yes, but still I really wish we would focus more here in our own solar system instead of wasting resources on looking furhter out to things that are of not direct benefit to mankind. Sure explore if you plan to be able to get there with in the next 3 generations or less but beyond that focus on building up here where we are.

In order to establish a baseline for those around 3 generations from now to possibly to be able to travel to those regions of space, you have to begin observing it with what we have now. If you don't look now, when? By observing now, we may discover something (wormholes, etc) that may make future travel possible.

Ignoring that, the wealth of knowledge gained about the universe and how it works, expands, contracts, etc is well worth it.

My question to you is this, is looking at stellar objects 3 billion, heck even 1000 years, away with in 3 generations or beyond that?

Huh?

Technologically what do you see as a possibility within 3 generations? That is really what I meant because you tend to say the sky is the limit. History has proven this is not the case. So where do you draw the line?

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: blahblah99
People look into outer space because the further we can see, the longer the universe has been around, unless, light folds itself at the edges of the universe and redirects itself.

Or the universe is constantly revealing itself as the light from the farthest reaches of space reaches our ability to see it here. Either way when we look out at the farthest reaches of space we see nothing. Emtpiness. That does not mean that there is nothing there just that we can't see it. Either way I see it as a method of diversion that actually stepping foot out into our solar system and learning more about how our system was formed and what has happened in its past. How did water for on mars? Since there was water on mars was there life? If there was life would there be remains of it left in some form, any form? These are the direct benefits I see, here, in our own solar system. If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

We'll never know if life ever existed on Mars unless we colonize it and dig deep into the planet to see its history. Who knows, maybe life on earth ORGINATED from mars when a meteor hit Mars and sent some Martian rocks out to space to get captured by earth's gravity. Anyway, I personally think it's foolish to think that earth is the only planet in the universe that holds life.

 

[OulOat]

Originally posted by: gutharius
If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

How are we going to improve our technical abitility if we don't stress out our current technology? It's like saying we should not waste any money exploring quarks just because we do not have any current technology that is able to detect something that small.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: BannedTroll
Are you retarded?

Simply; The past is the future and it may eventually answer the big question and many.

Which would be?

No I am not retarded, just ready for mankind to take root in the larger solar system.

You should show some respect for others tho...

First why would I respect you?




Anyway what would be the benefit of moving throughout our own solar system?

Industrial benefits from mining. Commercial benefits from interplanetary trade. Species benefits from not having your entire progeny on one planet, i.e. putting all your eggs in one basket. Technologiacal benefits from us accomplishing these few and basic tasks which would propel us faster towards the edges of the universe instead of just sitting in our back yards with ice tea and saying "tha' pwitty 'tar tinkles".

As far as respect goes, because if you don't give your definately WON'T receive. At least as far as I am concerned.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
uhh..we have to start somewhere right? it's the ONLY thing we can look at anyways. the stuff is interesting.

if there's no point in looking at what's up there, then what's the point of figuring out anything at all?

your reasoning is weak. stop posting thanks

No it's not that there is not a point to looking at it I just think we should focus more on the doing part than the looking part. In other words moving out into space physically through colonization and Industrialization of space.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: everman
Ok I understand your point of view, but I don't exactly agree with it. I believe deep space exploration is very important. However I wish there was more like 40 robots exploring mars right now instead of a hand full, and just more exploration of our neighboring planets overall. I'm sure this will happen eventually, China specifically seems very interested in the "exploitation of space", as I believe they have put it.

I agree with this. I would take it a step further, instead of robots we need to develope technologies to send us into space. After all there is only so much a robot can physically be programmed and equipped to do. I am talking about mankind taking it's first step out the front door of his house and into our solar system. To coin a phrase, "That's what I'm talking about!"

 

[BannedTroll]

OK seriously. We explore deep space for two reasons. Our desire to understand where we came from and to ensure the survival of the human race. Other than terraforming any efforts within our solar system would be pointless. The idea behind it all (besides finding the answer to the beginning) is to get to other galaxies suitable for habitation. If we had not been exploring deep space we wouldn't even know there were other planets. Understanding the movements of the matter in the grand scheme of space is important to our survival as a race. Although we have a while before the sun starts with massive ejections or we collide with Andromeda the time we have before an ELE is unknown. With only one planet and a couple of moons with the possibility of terraforming our best bet is outside the solar system entirely.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: blahblah99

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: blahblah99
People look into outer space because the further we can see, the longer the universe has been around, unless, light folds itself at the edges of the universe and redirects itself.

Or the universe is constantly revealing itself as the light from the farthest reaches of space reaches our ability to see it here. Either way when we look out at the farthest reaches of space we see nothing. Emtpiness. That does not mean that there is nothing there just that we can't see it. Either way I see it as a method of diversion that actually stepping foot out into our solar system and learning more about how our system was formed and what has happened in its past. How did water for on mars? Since there was water on mars was there life? If there was life would there be remains of it left in some form, any form? These are the direct benefits I see, here, in our own solar system. If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

We'll never know if life ever existed on Mars unless we colonize it and dig deep into the planet to see its history. Who knows, maybe life on earth ORGINATED from mars when a meteor hit Mars and sent some Martian rocks out to space to get captured by earth's gravity. Anyway, I personally think it's foolish to think that earth is the only planet in the universe that holds life.

You and I share one of my more frequently thought of hypothesis. As far as life, So do I but what point is there if we can get no productive contact or communication if it takes a single bit of data thousands of years to be sent to and from each of those civilizations. I say build up here in our own solar system. Perfect the technologies for rapid interplanitary communication then wield that knowledge to propel us further out into space and beyond.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: everman
Ok I understand your point of view, but I don't exactly agree with it. I believe deep space exploration is very important. However I wish there was more like 40 robots exploring mars right now instead of a hand full, and just more exploration of our neighboring planets overall. I'm sure this will happen eventually, China specifically seems very interested in the "exploitation of space", as I believe they have put it.

I agree with this. I would take it a step further, instead of robots we need to develope technologies to send us into space. After all there is only so much a robot can physically be programmed and equipped to do. I am talking about mankind taking it's first step out the front door of his house and into our solar system. To coin a phrase, "That's what I'm talking about!"

Again the solar system is pointless along with any technology that simply gets us there. The only thing I would agree with is that in theory only small goals being met or impending doom are enough to hold the interest and achieve the ultimate goal.

 

[tokamak]

The answer here is quite simple. We are humans, we have an insatiable desire to know about the world we inhabit. History has proven this.

In response to your specific concerns, I'll say this: while we are far from what could reasonably even be considered a good understanding of our own solar system, what we know about the rest of the universe is virtually zero in comparison.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: OulOat

Originally posted by: gutharius
If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

How are we going to improve our technical abitility if we don't stress out our current technology? It's like saying we should not waste any money exploring quarks just because we do not have any current technology that is able to detect something that small.

We test our technology by building out into our own solar system. By accomplishing ways of moving and mining million ton asteroids. By accomplishing ways the get peope from one planet to another before the person dies from old age, or heck even has time to ask the phrase "Are we there yet?" By accomplishing ways to communicate via interplanetarily in a meaningful and responsive way. We need not explore the farthest and least directly beneficial parts of the universe just to "test our technology" we can do both right here in our own solar system and reap 100% of the benefits.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: OulOat

Originally posted by: gutharius
If these benefits exist on other planets in outher solar systems they are far from our technological abilities to experience. Sure it is ok to know these places of interest exist but really lets learn more about our own system so we can take that knowlege and move outwards to the rest of our universe.

How are we going to improve our technical abitility if we don't stress out our current technology? It's like saying we should not waste any money exploring quarks just because we do not have any current technology that is able to detect something that small.

We test our technology by building out into our own solar system. By accomplishing ways of moving and mining million ton asteroids. By accomplishing ways the get peope from one planet to another before the person dies from old age, or heck even has time to ask the phrase "Are we there yet?" By accomplishing ways to communicate via interplanetarily in a meaningful and responsive way. We need not explore the farthest and least directly beneficial parts of the universe just to "test our technology" we can do both right here in our own solar system and reap 100% of the benefits.

I don't know if you've done the math yet but the technology to roam about our own solar system is not going to get us to others.

 

[Chaotic42]

Because history repeats itself.

Everywhere.

 

[BannedTroll]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Because history repeats itself.

Everywhere.

I said that already but he didn't feel I was being respectful.