Why exactly do you have to go to 12 years of school before college?

[nageov3t]

as someone who taught freshman comp in college... high school seniors are retarded. I couldn't imagine how bad they'd be without even that sub-par pre-college education.

 

[mugs]

You think they make you go to 12 years of school, at an expense of $10k per year to the taxpayers, in a conspiracy to get you to buy clothes and school supplies? YOU are the reason kids need to go to school for 12 years.

 

[LS20]

you mean to tell me, in one day, the entire educational architecture was laid out. all administrators got together and said "let there be school. first, we'll make a pre/kin level. then they'll move to 1-6, which we will call elementary, and then up to 12, after which we will create the college system"

like that right?



(i cant believe i participated in here)

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: ironk
and actually found them harder than when I went to college

YOU went to college? Based on the original post in this thread, I was guessing you were in 9th grade. What college? What major?

Okay, I've had my cereal and coffee. My head is a little clearer now.

Shens that you ever went to college. Either that or you're the only college student to EVER complain about 12 years of back to school supplies after paying for books for even one semester.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: ironk
and actually found them harder than when I went to college

YOU went to college? Based on the original post in this thread, I was guessing you were in 9th grade. What college? What major?

Okay, I've had my cereal and coffee. My head is a little clearer now.

Shens that you ever went to college. Either that or you're the only college student to EVER complain about 12 years of back to school supplies after paying for books for even one semester.

:laugh:

Don't know exactly why, but I liked that post.
(Ok, fine, college is just a conspiracy to get people to buy books.)


I read a nice essay once, which said that the public schooling system is something that you need in a society such as ours, where the parents no longer work at home. In times past, parents tended worked at home, on a farm so they could feed their family. Looking after the kids was easier, not only because parent and kid were in nearer proximity, but also because they could be put to work helping out with small tasks, and so kept busy with something.
Now with parents generally leaving home to go to work, and with jobs requiring more and more skill, which kids don't have, that has the kids otherwise remaining at home unsupervised with nothing to do. So, send them to school. It keeps them busy while their parents can go get something done, like earning money at a job. In addition, school serves to at least provide some rudimentary knowledge that will come in handy in a modern society.

"Basic" education before might have included a little bit of literacy, and possibly simple math. Now basic schooling is including proficient literacy, and higher level maths.
Not to mention, another reason allowing for increased schooling: longer lifespans. In the "times past" referenced above, people didn't live nearly as long, so there was less time to spend on education. Now we live longer, so we can devote more time to learning, and still have time to put that knowledge to good use.

Well, except you, DrPizza. You just put your learning to use by posting on ATOT.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Reminds me why military should be mandatory for a year for everyone going out of high school. Then college wouldn't be just an extension of high school.

 

[ironk]

heh, I was just trying to get people's opinion on the matter, however, everyone seems to be in agreement with the 12 year deal. I think it all depends...you cannot slack of and get through a public school that is stringent. Could I have handled college material when I was 16? Yes, ofcourse. Freshman college isn't all that much harder than high school, imo, its just faster. Now, dealing with people older than you is another thing...but I think it is most definetly possible academically.

Obviously, if you're too young when you graduate college, you will have a tough time with jobs/people since society has done the 12 year thing for too long.

Again, I wasn't saying that 12yrs is a bad thing, just wondering as to how society has it that way (for a good response, see Jeff7's post).

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: ironk

And since most people seem to fail to get a decent education in 12 years, do you really think a shorter time in education would benefit the majority of society?

Well, that depends on the quality of it, right? Quality over quantity? I have been to many public schools before going to college, and I can tell you this: They are not created equal. They vary greatly...for example, I went to public schools in Newton, MA and actually found them harder than when I went to college. For some reason, Newton schools have a rediculous curiculum, and a B- there is like a A+ in other "normal" public schools.

And you would STILL be buying those toher clothes, because (well, most people at least) tend to wear clothes outside of school.

True, however, I think people buy far more clothes when going to a place like school for 5 days a week. Plus you have to include sports apparel as well.

judging from your rambling, I would say 12 years is not enough. 20 maybe.

very funny.

Haha you go to North or South? I went to North and let me tell you, college (MIT) is a hell of a lot harder than HS. I found most of HS to be bs busy work, although there were a few good teachers

 

[ironk]

neither, I went to Junior high in Newton (Charles something, I forget the whole name).
Yeah, I wasn't comparing that to MIT/Harvard/Stanford. More like normal mid range colleges.

 

[clickynext]

In some areas of China there are only about 10 years of school, and kids move out and go to college at 16. Pre-college school tends to be a lot harder there, and you're actually learning stuff, rather than just having fun and gaining societal skills like in NA public schools.

 

[nonameo]

I think what the OP means is that there is fluff education in our school system, and that a lot of things taught in college should instead be taught in high school.
This gets around the maturity problem because you still have the same "maturity level" grouped together, but you come out of the system with more useful knowledge/skills.

So,you know... maybe then people wouldn't think you an idiotic dolt for only having a high school diploma. Maybe then you could get a halfway decent job with one.

 

[mattpegher]

Think of it as a lowest common denominator. First you have the kids who are not going on to college. They are going to go out and get jobs or join the military basically putting them potentially into the realm of adults. They need to be at the predetermined age that our society feels they can be ready for this. 18 years although arbitrary seems a moderately logical age today, 200 years ago it might have been 14. But you were just going to work on the farm that you had been on your whole life, and you signed your name with an X.

Secondly, college is in theory the first time you will be living on your own and in control of your own life without mommy looking over your shoulder. Maturity although variing is again arbitrarily assigned to the age of 18 in our society.

Lastly, those students who meet the minimum requirements for college entrance have required a list of courses for preparation that will require 12 years of schooling. Of course lately with all the BS/fluff course that are required the ability to get a student prepaired for college is getting tighter and tighter. Between language requirements, phys-ed, art and music, that all the suits in washington push into the curiculum, I'm amazed that they don't delay highschool another 2 years.

Smart kids can graduate early but I don't recommend it. They tend to isolate themselves in college or turn into party burn outs and crash and burn. I recommend using the AP system to earn free credits in college. I earned 16 credit in senior year of high school which would have cost me a years tuition. Granted you have to test to get the credits.

 

[iamaelephant]

Apparently home-schooled kids walk around naked....

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I fondly remember an incident from HS, the Assistant Principal said; "Our job isn't to educate you, it's to keep you off the streets." 'Course, he did just catch us coming back from the bar after lunch.

 

[3NF]

Sadly, 12 years isn't enough for most people.

 

[BooGiMaN]

you sound like a typical im too good for school-my teacher sucks-im not learning anything-no one undertsands me snotty nosed highschooler....

here is a thought why not drop out of school now and face the real world full of bills, crazy coworkers, insane bosses, extreme work hours and let us know how prepared you are to deal with all this with only a high school education or less....

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Reminds me why military should be mandatory for a year for everyone going out of high school. Then college wouldn't be just an extension of high school.

you say that like its a bad thing

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
you sound like a typical im too good for school-my teacher sucks-im not learning anything-no one undertsands me snotty nosed highschooler....

here is a thought why not drop out of school now and face the real world full of bills, crazy coworkers, insane bosses, extreme work hours and let us know how prepared you are to deal with all this with only a high school education or less....

Then there's the occasional atypical highschooler, such as my sister...who cannot stand the immature atmosphere where almost nobody actually cares about learning..then again, she's absolutely brilliant..so she doesn't fit your stereotype anyway.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
you sound like a typical im too good for school-my teacher sucks-im not learning anything-no one undertsands me snotty nosed highschooler....

here is a thought why not drop out of school now and face the real world full of bills, crazy coworkers, insane bosses, extreme work hours and let us know how prepared you are to deal with all this with only a high school education or less....

Then there's the occasional atypical highschooler, such as my sister...who cannot stand the immature atmosphere where almost nobody actually cares about learning..then again, she's absolutely brilliant..so she doesn't fit your stereotype anyway.

It depends on the school. My highschool had a few very excellent teachers and a principle that really fostered the top-end students, and we took advantage of it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
judging from your rambling, I would say 12 years is not enough. 20 maybe.

QFT.

By asking this question dictates you stay in school as long as possible.

In reality, you don't have to go to an actual institution for education. You also don't have to go 12 years.

You can test out of grades. I think the youngest college student has been in the 12 year old range.

Edit: I will add IMHO about 90% of pre-college education is about socialization though. It's important.

 

[akshatp]

Originally posted by: ironk

And since most people seem to fail to get a decent education in 12 years, do you really think a shorter time in education would benefit the majority of society?

Well, that depends on the quality of it, right? Quality over quantity? I have been to many public schools before going to college, and I can tell you this: They are not created equal. They vary greatly...for example, I went to public schools in Newton, MA and actually found them harder than when I went to college. For some reason, Newton schools have a rediculous curiculum, and a B- there is like a A+ in other "normal" public schools.

How rediculous that curriculum must be!!! They obviously spent alot of time teaching you how to spell too!

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: akshatp

Originally posted by: ironk

And since most people seem to fail to get a decent education in 12 years, do you really think a shorter time in education would benefit the majority of society?

Well, that depends on the quality of it, right? Quality over quantity? I have been to many public schools before going to college, and I can tell you this: They are not created equal. They vary greatly...for example, I went to public schools in Newton, MA and actually found them harder than when I went to college. For some reason, Newton schools have a rediculous curiculum, and a B- there is like a A+ in other "normal" public schools.

How rediculous that curriculum must be!!! They obviously spent alot of time teaching you how to spell too!

bahahhaha

 

[oiprocs]

Originally posted by: akshatp

Originally posted by: ironk

And since most people seem to fail to get a decent education in 12 years, do you really think a shorter time in education would benefit the majority of society?

Well, that depends on the quality of it, right? Quality over quantity? I have been to many public schools before going to college, and I can tell you this: They are not created equal. They vary greatly...for example, I went to public schools in Newton, MA and actually found them harder than when I went to college. For some reason, Newton schools have a rediculous curiculum, and a B- there is like a A+ in other "normal" public schools.

How rediculous that curriculum must be!!! They obviously spent alot of time teaching you how to spell too!

Pwned.

 

[LtPage1]

You don't need a diploma to go to college. Why don't you apply now, and see how many schools accept you.

 

[habib89]

i don't think 12 years is too long.. i do, however, think that they don't teach nearly enough in those 12 years.. you just keep learning the same thing over and over