Why evolution is true (another great science lecture)

[jonks]

Quote of Richard Dawkins in in the book:

"Anybody who doesn't believe in evolution is stupid, insane, or hasn't read Jerry Coyne. I defy any reasonable person to read this marvelous book and still take seriously the breathtaking inanity that is intelligent design 'theory' or its country cousin, young earth creationism."

How do they expect anyone to take them seriously if they insult anyone that doesn't believe them?

Dawkins isn't trying to "convert" anyone. He's stated multiple times that if a reasonably educated person alive doesn't hold with evolution, or chooses to believe ID instead, that person is not going to change their opinion. IDers are like conspiracy theorists. You can't win an argument with someone who will forever fall back on the "god did it" card. There are religious people today who argue that the universe was created 5000 years ago but only "made to look" billions of years old by god as a test for our faith. How can you argue with a person who asserts that belief when it's completely unprovable either way?

Then you have the "atheism = religion" crowd, more nonsense. Is not believing in unicorns a religion?

 

[Gamingphreek]

This is why you should pay attention in high school science classes instead of sniffing erasers...

I don't recall High School every teaching advanced physics concepts. Not sure what you High School you went to, but it seems like this is material for Graduate studies to me...

Once again, I am stupified by the amount of personal attacks that most who are not named Malak continue to make. Admittedly, I may have forgotten posts in the thread, but I don't think he has once said something like this:

There was a time when I'd have been suckered into arguing w/ Malak too. I guess I'm getting old, his shits transparent. Do yourselves a favor, next time someone is trolling a thread, read through their posts and ask yourself this "has this person offered up a single shred of information toward their side of the argument or do they consistantly throw out generalities". If you can't find any then you know the answer without even arguing.

If you "theory" is so rock solid, why in the world resort to personal attacks except to fill in for topics which you don't quite understand.

Additionally, since when have any of us ever said that we hate science. I'm thankful for medicine, HDTV's, and computers. What does that have anything to do with my religion or creation. Believing and supporting science and believing in Christ are not mutually exclusive.

-Kevin (Gamingphreek)

 

[totalnoob]

Believing and supporting science and believing in Christ are not mutually exclusive.

Believing in many parts of the bible (including the creation myth) and believing in science ARE mutually exclusive. Scientists in general don't have a problem with religious folks until they start spreading disinformation and poisoning the well of human knowledge by trying to call their beliefs "history". There would be no conflict if creationists didn't try to get their bronze age myths taught as "alternatives" to modern cosmology and biology in schools.

 

[SunSamurai]

Its kind of hard to take you seriously, Goku. (and I have fond memories of DBZ)

 

[darkswordsman17]

If you "theory" is so rock solid, why in the world resort to personal attacks except to fill in for topics which you don't quite understand.

-Kevin (Gamingphreek)

You REALLY need to understand that this is scientific theory, and what that means.

The fact that you can't get past that alone shows how ignorant you are. I am very confused why you're arguing anyways, as you've stated that you don't have enough knowledge to even properly do so, and have said you won't because of this. Ignorance on your part is never a valid argument. You keep asking why people are "attacking" you for having the opposing view. Its because you openly admit your ignorance but continue to argue your point.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I fail to see how a dolphin with 4 fins is rock solid evidence that evolution ever occurs. I really want to know if you even read the counter-arguements at all. Did you read Simmon's book?

So, you're just going to ignore when you're shown to be being forcefully ignorant? I've already pointed out why you're being stupid about this exact point (the extra "fins" as you call them).

Here, I'll even quote what I posted before in case you missed it:

Were you even paying attention? Did you not notice how, dolphins start developing appendages early on, only to lose them, however in some rare cases they continue to develop. Those weren't just extra fins (look at the picture), they're stubby little legs. I'm all ears on your explanation of this.

 

[randay]

Im sorry, but if this guy is so smart, why did he name his book "Why Evolution is True".

 

[magomago]

I noticed you made similar comments on the other video about the origin of the universe from the same conference. You have to understand the context in which these talks were given - at a meeting of atheists. Like any good speaker he is indulging his audience with what they want to hear, and I think that's fair enough. If he had given a talk on evidence for evolution at a university or some other type of conference I'm sure he would have toned that down or eliminated it altogether.

I did, and I hope I don't sound like a broken record when I say that. I suppose its fair enough considering the crowd, but then it looks poorly upon them (audience) when the they want to be indulged by attacks on others. I've never been to any significant and serious meeting of people who say things like, "well I'm not trying to bash [xxx], oh wait, I really am!" and the continued assaults that follow.

I'm also not opposed to questioning or taking apart other people's arguments. There are authors that I read and enjoy, such as Norman Finkelstein, that do just that: deconstruct an argument, expose it for what it is (a fraud), and then question why a person so 'highly regarded' would publish such 'drivel'. This is why I think creationists are fair game.

It is always a good reminder that people can still be extremely fucking smart, but hold twisted views.

That said - I don't want to discount the value of the knowledge discussed in this, or the other video. Both are extremely interesting, and I do hope that people continue to pursue these areas to continue to learn more about our physical origins as humans and the universe.

I also hope that this knowledge causes people to dispel and let go of erroneous interpretations of their religion.

 

[speg]

I didn't bother to read most of the banter in this thread.

But basically, DNA is a list of genes. These genes give us certain traits. Sometimes when the DNA is replicated these genes mutate, and this can cause different traits. Repeat this over billions of years and you end up with a bunch of different things.

There is nothing crazy about that now is there?

 

[magomago]

Im sorry, but if this guy is so smart, why did he name his book "Why Evolution is True".

Seems like you didn't watch the lecture

 

[darkswordsman17]

I did, and I hope I don't sound like a broken record when I say that. I suppose its fair enough considering the crowd, but then it looks poorly upon them (audience) when the they want to be indulged by attacks on others. I've never been to any significant and serious meeting of people who say things like, "well I'm not trying to bash [xxx], oh wait, I really am!" and the continued assaults that follow.

I'm also not opposed to questioning or taking apart other people's arguments. There are authors that I read and enjoy, such as Norman Finkelstein, that do just that: deconstruct an argument, expose it for what it is (a fraud), and then question why a person so 'highly regarded' would publish such 'drivel'. This is why I think creationists are fair game.

It is always a good reminder that people can still be extremely fucking smart, but hold twisted views.

That said - I don't want to discount the value of the knowledge discussed in this, or the other video. Both are extremely interesting, and I do hope that people continue to pursue these areas to continue to learn more about our physical origins as humans and the universe.

I also hope that this knowledge causes people to dispel and let go of erroneous interpretations of their religion.

I completely agree. The guy even says that he's basically given up just trying to inform people, and is now aiming to get rid of the thing blocking people from being able to (religion). His point about belief in God and societal success is not really valid either, as there's several countries with higher belief in God that are also higher on the other. It is however a trend based on the data, but is certainly not absolute. The reason I don't discount his points is because he's aggregating them, they are not his own, but rather a collective derived from the multitude of scientific study.

 

[Iron Woode]

are we done flogging this dead horse yet?

 

[TridenT]

are we done flogging this dead horse yet?

never!!!!! :twisted:

 

[Ausm]

All you non believers are going to fucking HELL

 

[hans030390]

I've done some personal research on Christ being who he says he was (or if he was just crazy) and have decided that the historical evidence and/or philosophical/psychological analysis sways more in favor of it being true (that he is who he says he was), IMO.

I've also taken some philosophy courses, mostly about the existence of God. After studying many arguments (old and new), none of them really seem to be a KO in proving there is no God (and if they seem to be, there's always a pretty obvious flaw in the argument when you really look into it). God will probably never, ever be proved or disproven by science (hence the reason I took philosophy). Who's to say he didn't create the universe in such a way that evolution was his "plan of attack"? Why can't he be behind something like that? Sure, evolution means there's a higher possibility that there isn't a God, but that's all. It will probably never go beyond a 50/50 thing...either he's there or he's not. Either he could have done this or he didn't.

I also have no problem with a ~14 billion year old universe and evolution (though I still think the theory of evolution is a bit "overrated" and has too many holes in it). It's definitely interesting and worth knowing about, but in the end, HOW I got here doesn't really matter compared to WHY I'm here.

Yeah, so I'm technically a Christian. I believe many of the "core" beliefs...mostly that Christ is what I would consider to be my savior. I don't necessarily believe, however, that everything written in the Bible is absolutely true. And I most certainly don't believe that just because a pastor says something is true that it is. However, I like to think that I've come to where I am based on logic and thinking. Perhaps you don't see things the same way I do...but if you can respect my logical decisions, I'll respect yours.

That said, I do see a lot of educated atheists throwing insults more at those who aren't (or don't think evolution is true) than vice versa. Of course, the blind believers that just regurgitate what they're told...either side is pretty equal in that regard (as far as throwing insults).

In the end, though, everyone is looking at the universe through their filters of beliefs.

 

[TridenT]

All you non believers are going to fucking HELL

It'll be a great party!

 

[xSauronx]

All you non believers are going to fucking HELL

i hope you go to hell for that sig. so there!

 

[meltdown75]

yeah, God had his thinking cap on the day he cooked up evolution!

 

[Gibsons]

I've done some personal research on Christ being who he says he was (or if he was just crazy) and have decided that the historical evidence and/or philosophical/psychological analysis sways more in favor of it being true (that he is who he says he was), IMO.

What if christ didn't say any of the things attributed to him in the bible?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Dawkins isn't trying to "convert" anyone. He's stated multiple times that if a reasonably educated person alive doesn't hold with evolution, or chooses to believe ID instead, that person is not going to change their opinion. IDers are like conspiracy theorists. You can't win an argument with someone who will forever fall back on the "god did it" card. There are religious people today who argue that the universe was created 5000 years ago but only "made to look" billions of years old by god as a test for our faith. How can you argue with a person who asserts that belief when it's completely unprovable either way?

Then you have the "atheism = religion" crowd, more nonsense. Is not believing in unicorns a religion?

I'd be ok with what you say if it were true but it isn't. Dawkins hates anyone who believes in religion. He has passed judgment on people who are far better scientists than he ever was, and that they believe in evolution and the Big Bang doesn't matter.

He's a huge egotistical dick who's main agenda is to deride.

He lacks the same objectivity he claims others who have faith suffer from. Rather than looking at the science and the contribution of scientists, he checks their religious background as some absolute litmus test of their legitimacy.

He's not very smart, and he's certainly a great fool.

 

[totalnoob]

I'd be ok with what you say if it were true but it isn't. Dawkins hates anyone who believes in religion. He has passed judgment on people who are far better scientists than he ever was, and that they believe in evolution and the Big Bang doesn't matter.

Great scientists who don't accept evolution or the big bang?? That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one. Common folks who don't know any better might be excused for their ignorance..but educated and intelligent people (PHDs) who are willing to dismiss the overwhelming evidence for both subjects in order to cling to an ancient book are an insult to the human race. Dawkins deserves to be applauded for saying so.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Great scientists who don't accept evolution or the big bang?? That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one. Common folks who don't know any better might be excused for their ignorance..but educated and intelligent people (PHDs) who are willing to dismiss the overwhelming evidence for both subjects in order to cling to an ancient book are an insult to the human race. Dawkins deserves to be applauded for saying so.

English FTW.


"and that they believe in evolution and the Big Bang doesn't matter."

They accept them.

Now why does Dawkins deserve to be applauded for being a dick?

 

[RapidSnail]

Evilution!!!!!!

 

[AbAbber2k]

It'll be a great party!

All the cool people will be there. An eternity of Small Group up in Heaven sounds like worse torture than what will be waiting for me in Hell.

 

[EarthwormJim]

I'll just quote this since my own thoughts are so close.

Macro-evolution is so off the wall that it's almost laughable.

I present "evolution in a nutshell" --

Once upon a time, there was nothing. Then, for reasons we can't explain, there was a bang and the universe appeared. We don't know how and we don't know why.

And in this universe that somehow appeared, there was a rock revolving around a ball of flaming gas that we're not sure how it caught on fire. On this rock, some slime formed .. again, for reasons unknown.

Then a billion years pass and here we are ... although we don't know how and we don't know why.


I don't claim to know how everything got here, but my life experiences tell me that there's a greater force (God, to some) out there.

Evolution != Abiogenesis != The Big Bang

Evolution does not depend on an origin of life theory (though it does predict that there was one organism we evolved from), it is simply a theory explaining the origin of the species, not life itself.

It is its own standalone theory (in the Scientific sense).

Why is it so hard to understand that, why do people try to disregard Evolution by stating that it fails to explain how life started in the first place. That's not what Evolution tries to explain!

Please stop trying to spread your missinformation when you do not even know what the Theory of Evolution is.

I really suggest that everyone actually read Darwin's work. It's genius and entertaining. Hell even just keep it in the bathroom and read it while you're on the crapper.