Why dumb people should not vote - Washington votes no to GMO labeling

[Brainonska511]

Yes, see the GMO label, investigate the science, and decide for themselves if they want to buy it or not.

And how do you, as a lay person, investigate the science? You can't be an expert on everything. How do you know the science you are looking at is good or bad? How do you know that the statistics used in an analysis are appropriate for the study? How do you know the controls were set up correctly or incorrectly?

And beyond just some of those preliminary quesitons, how do you wade through the chaff? There are a fair amount of shitty journals out there publishing rather flimsy research. And then you have some scientists that just have an agenda of wanting to taint the well (like that French guy with his bogus study).

 

[Texashiker]

What if you live in a small town, there's only a couple of grocery stores and neither of them offers any non-GMO produce? Do you just not eat fresh fruit and vegetables? How is that any healthier than eating GMO crops? ?

I live in a rural town, population of around 8,000 people. The whole county has less something like 75,000 people.

Labeling is about empowerment. Stores do not sell anything but gmo, then go to a local farmers market, buy online,,,.

But give the consumer the right to choose.

And how do you, as a lay person, investigate the science? You can't be an expert on everything. How do you know the science you are looking at is good or bad?

It is not just good or bad, but also a moral issue.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Labeling is about empowerment. Stores do not sell anything but gmo, then go to a local farmers market, buy online,,,.

So even without labeling, you're able to find non-GMO foods? Sounds to me like the free market noticed a void and filled it without government intervention.

But give the consumer the right to choose.

The consumers in Washington did choose. Specifically, they chose to not require labels.

 

[theeedude]

And how do you, as a lay person, investigate the science? You can't be an expert on everything. How do you know the science you are looking at is good or bad? How do you know that the statistics used in an analysis are appropriate for the study? How do you know the controls were set up correctly or incorrectly?

And beyond just some of those preliminary quesitons, how do you wade through the chaff? There are a fair amount of shitty journals out there publishing rather flimsy research. And then you have some scientists that just have an agenda of wanting to taint the well (like that French guy with his bogus study).

How I research and decide what products to buy is my business.

 

[Texashiker]

The consumers in Washington did choose. Specifically, they chose to not require labels.

And thus the title of the thread, why dumb people should not vote.

 

[theeedude]

What if you live in a small town, there's only a couple of grocery stores and neither of them offers any non-GMO produce? Do you just not eat fresh fruit and vegetables? How is that any healthier than eating GMO crops? The idea of choice is predicated on the notion of there being more than one option available, but what if the option is literally "GMO or go hungry?" That's not really a choice, is it? It's just additional information.

That's a fallacious argument. You can decide to eat GMO food if you are hungry. A GMO label is not stopping you from eating.

 

[nehalem256]

It provides the consumer with ability to choose.

The consumer can do a side-by-side comparison of products, then pick the one they want.

The point of labeling is suppose to be to allow consumer to make INFORMED choices.

The point of putting GMO labels is to scare consumers into demanding that GMO foods be eliminated.

People cannot, and should not, have to be experts at everything.

 

[hal2kilo]

The point of labeling is suppose to be to allow consumer to make INFORMED choices.

The point of putting GMO labels is to scare consumers into demanding that GMO foods be eliminated.

People cannot, and should not, have to be experts at everything.

Thanks for putting us in our place, oh, elite one.

 

[theeedude]

Thanks for putting us in our place, oh, elite one.

He really saved us from ourselves, very thankful for that 🙄

 

[xBiffx]

Name calling and ad hominem again, this confirms you really couldn't scrape up a better argument.

I did neither. But sorry again that you have nothing much else to go on. I have argued plenty but you are still stuck on word games.

 

[theeedude]

I did neither. But sorry again that you have nothing much else to go on.

Another "substantial" post from xBiffx.

 

[brycejones]

People cannot, and should not, have to be experts at everything.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[xBiffx]

Another "substantial" post from xBiffx.

The irony here is absolutely amazing.

 

[Texashiker]

The point of labeling is suppose to be to allow consumer to make INFORMED choices.

Not only informed, but also moral and religious choices.

Why do we even label meat? Who cares if that ground meat is beef, pork, kangaroo, deer, moose, bear, rat, cat, dog, goat, sheep,,,,, or anything else? Meat is meat right? The source should not affect the consumer.

As I have said before several times in this thread, one of the reasons why my wife and I have our chickens is because I have a moral objection to the way chickens are kept in cages.

I can say my eggs are happy eggs, because happy eggs come from happy chickens.

As for gmo, I have no opinion on it, and I really do not care.

But someone else should not be deciding what my families eats.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Then a shoe made in vietnam, china or mexico is irrelevant to the end consumer.

But personally, I would like to have a say as to where my money goes.

It is irrelevant as far as the product itself is concerned.

Although it's not an accurate analogy either as there can be differences in quality between a product made in China and the US. There are no differences that any scientifically sound testing can prove between a GMO crop and a non-GMO crop. Be it via taste testing (done properly via blind taste tests), nutritional content, etc

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I live in a rural town, population of around 8,000 people. The whole county has less something like 75,000 people.

Labeling is about empowerment. Stores do not sell anything but gmo, then go to a local farmers market, buy online,,,.

But give the consumer the right to choose.

Thus, you have choice. Buy from local farmers who don't use GMO's.

 

[Texashiker]

There are no differences that any scientifically sound testing can prove between a GMO crop and a non-GMO crop. Be it via taste testing (done properly via blind taste tests), nutritional content, etc

Is thread is not about pro-gmo or anti-gmo.

This is about the consumer having a choice.

There is no real difference in a shoe made in mexico and one made in china. So why should it matter?

As a consumer in a free market I have to right to say where my money goes. With no choice I have no say, and thus the free market is undermined.

Why do we put a higher standard on shoes than we do on food? Why do we get to pick what shoes we want to buy, but not our food?

 

[glenn1]

The point of labeling is suppose to be to allow consumer to make INFORMED choices.

Sure, when there's an actual potential risk to be informed of. If we allowed every nutjob to have their stupid unscientific theory required to be posted on stickers attached to consumer products then we'd run out of both sticker and space on the product packaging to put it.

Requiring food to have GMO labels in the name of "informed consumer choice" would be just as ridiculous as allowing Scientologists to start requring aspirin bottles to have stickers saying it "inhibits the ability of the thetan to create mental image pictures." How either either "no GMO" or "bad for thetans" doing anything to inform the 99.99% of people who aren't both ignorant of science and militant enough about it to demand the goverment put stickers on things?

 

[nehalem256]

Not only informed, but also moral and religious choices.

Why do we even label meat? Who cares if that ground meat is beef, pork, kangaroo, deer, moose, bear, rat, cat, dog, goat, sheep,,,,, or anything else? Meat is meat right? The source should not affect the consumer.

Do I really need to explain to you the difference between beef and chicken?

Also I wish I could get some kangaroo meat for the same price as beef 🙁

 

[Texashiker]

Sure, when there's an actual potential risk to be informed of. If we allowed every nutjob to have their stupid unscientific theory required to be posted on stickers attached to consumer products then we'd run out of both sticker and space on the product packaging to put it.

Could we imagine the horror if nations like vietnam were required to put labels on their products? Nobody over 40 years old would buy them.

Could we imagine the horror is companies were required to list the sodium and fat content of their products? Do you remember how food companies fought against labeling for as something as simple as salt content?

Do I really need to explain to you the difference between beef and chicken?

Its just an example.

 

[Zargon]

Is thread is not about pro-gmo or anti-gmo.

This is about the consumer having a choice.

There is no real difference in a shoe made in mexico and one made in china. So why should it matter?

As a consumer in a free market I have to right to say where my money goes. With no choice I have no say, and thus the free market is undermined.

Why do we put a higher standard on shoes than we do on food? Why do we get to pick what shoes we want to buy, but not our food?

do you even know what GMO means dude?


GMO grain vs non-gmo grain is no where close to same as 'meat' not being labeled. GMO grain is still grain, sure meat is meat, but beef is not pork is not turkey is not chicken

 

[DrPizza]

GMO modifies the substances (proteins) produced inside the fruit. If what you eat is not relevant to you, that's fine, you don't speak for everyone. You can just ignore the GMO label anyways, why are you so against it?

Millions upon millions of dollars have been invested into investigating the safety of these foods. They are just as safe - no demonstrated health problems - as non-GMO foods. It's a well understood psychological phenomenon that forcing these foods to be labeled as containing GMO would result in less-informed people believing that the food is somehow less safe. While literally, a label "Contains GMO ingredients" does not mean "this product is less safe for you," psychologically, they are the same for a vast portion of the public. Allowing fear-mongering, misguided individuals to dictate "free market" is misguided.

 

[irishScott]

I think I am going to produce a generic ground meat.

Maybe visit the local animal shelters for dogs and cats, maybe add in a few raccoons and opossums?

When people demand to know what they are eating, I will just accuse them of fear mongering.

Ground meat is ground meat, so what if it comes from rats, dogs, cats, or cows?

Well if someone manages to sell a genetically modified Apple that is actually a combination of apple, orange, pineapple and pomegranate without anyone noticing, then you might have a point.

 

[Texashiker]

do you even know what GMO means dude?

Yes I do.

And do you know what battery cages are?

Consumers should have a choice in the products they buy.

 

[Texashiker]

Allowing fear-mongering, misguided individuals to dictate "free market" is misguided.

Read the back of a frozen pizza lately?

Are those kinds of labels fear mongering?

There is more than just scientific issues here, there are moral issues as well. The consumer should have a choice.