Why don't you Americans create another centre of power?

[FoBoT]

not sure what the OP is thinking aboot

but americans don't really like change that much, especially in govt.

 

[lupi]

There is only 1 "center" of power and that is the citizens of the US. I could go into more detail about why it isn't currently working, but you could probably gather many of those facts just from browsing this forum.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: mrCide
They'll be corrupted just like the government.

Why not have an electoral college made of common people having to pass an exam to vote?

Our entire government is made of common people, whether we choose to believe it or not. I know a few congressmen and a senator where I'm from, and they're not part of some far-reaching dark-cave conspiracy group. Just normal people.

 

[JTsyo]

There are unofficial groups that watch government activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...hdog_groups_in_the_U.S.

 

[piasabird]

The Media is always claiming to have some sort of integrity of journalism, but the truth is that just does not exist. If the media would just quit trying to influence the elections that might help a bit. When you have the New York Times printing Slander in an attempt to discredit one party, it is time for legal action against that organization. It is one thing when a politician tells lies in a commercial, it is another thing when a media outlet goes with a story that is just a bunch of fabricated lies.

 

[piasabird]

I was thinking the other day that we could have a comptroller section or a branch that does financial audits on congress and forces the US Governemnt to the same standards as a business organization would have to adhere to. There are lots of things that governments do that a business owner or a corp CEO would be put in jail for. I also dont think you should be able to vote yourself a raise.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
so wait, in response to having a government that has grown large and corrupt, your suggestion is that we create... a larger government!?

no thank you.

We already have a mechanism in place that is there to check the Federal Government's power -- the people.

imagine that.

The idea of "checking the government's power" is a non sequitor. We ARE the government, and the government is us. I'm proud of my giant bulwark against foreign and domestic threats, from the Taliban to our own extremist nutcases. More power? 50 years ago southern states were vehemently defending segregation just like 150 years ago they defended slavery. Now we have things like TX governor Rick Perry wanting to teach creationism in the college system.
The federal government has proven effective at protecting us, the people, from our state governments. Enough with the anti-government rhetoric.

So the greatest threat to you, in the world, is a local people who wrap themselves up in creationism.

You're just peachy with patriot acts, foreign wars, deficits, the invasion of our southern border, and economic bankruptcy?

The thing wrong with your post, is your advocacy of the tyranny of the majority. Your concept that people must be ruled by government. Let me quote something important which seems lost on you.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ? That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ? That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What you are talking about is government oppression, not size and power of government.
The government, including the Constitution, and the courts, and our own lack of involvement failed to protect us from the Bush administration's policies. Bush != the government.

Power and funding to force desegregation, return wolves to the West, regulate drugs, explore space, build supercolliders, and provide healthcare does not equate to abuse of power or oppression, despite what talk radio hosts say.

Torture of any person, integration of religion and the state, detaining people illegally, etc... All abuses of power. These are all things that the public wasn't opposed against or didn't care about until more recently. Even now the majority is ignorant and apathetic. So how could there be a check on power to do these things? WE were the ones who failed, we being the people AND the government. There is no "us vs government" battle here.

 

[TheSlamma]

We trust our government? Trust them with what? Filling potholes?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
so wait, in response to having a government that has grown large and corrupt, your suggestion is that we create... a larger government!?

no thank you.

We already have a mechanism in place that is there to check the Federal Government's power -- the people.

imagine that.

The idea of "checking the government's power" is a non sequitor. We ARE the government, and the government is us. I'm proud of my giant bulwark against foreign and domestic threats, from the Taliban to our own extremist nutcases. More power? 50 years ago southern states were vehemently defending segregation just like 150 years ago they defended slavery. Now we have things like TX governor Rick Perry wanting to teach creationism in the college system.
The federal government has proven effective at protecting us, the people, from our state governments. Enough with the anti-government rhetoric.

So the greatest threat to you, in the world, is a local people who wrap themselves up in creationism.

You're just peachy with patriot acts, foreign wars, deficits, the invasion of our southern border, and economic bankruptcy?

The thing wrong with your post, is your advocacy of the tyranny of the majority. Your concept that people must be ruled by government. Let me quote something important which seems lost on you.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ? That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ? That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What you are talking about is government oppression, not size and power of government.
The government, including the Constitution, and the courts, and our own lack of involvement failed to protect us from the Bush administration's policies. Bush != the government.

Power and funding to force desegregation, return wolves to the West, regulate drugs, explore space, build supercolliders, and provide healthcare does not equate to abuse of power or oppression, despite what talk radio hosts say.

Torture of any person, integration of religion and the state, detaining people illegally, etc... All abuses of power. These are all things that the public wasn't opposed against or didn't care about until more recently. Even now the majority is ignorant and apathetic. So how could there be a check on power to do these things? WE were the ones who failed, we being the people AND the government. There is no "us vs government" battle here.

The government with the power to great good is the same government with the power to do great evil. How many dead Iraqis is a supercollider worth these days?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
so wait, in response to having a government that has grown large and corrupt, your suggestion is that we create... a larger government!?

no thank you.

We already have a mechanism in place that is there to check the Federal Government's power -- the people.

imagine that.

The idea of "checking the government's power" is a non sequitor. We ARE the government, and the government is us. I'm proud of my giant bulwark against foreign and domestic threats, from the Taliban to our own extremist nutcases. More power? 50 years ago southern states were vehemently defending segregation just like 150 years ago they defended slavery. Now we have things like TX governor Rick Perry wanting to teach creationism in the college system.
The federal government has proven effective at protecting us, the people, from our state governments. Enough with the anti-government rhetoric.

So the greatest threat to you, in the world, is a local people who wrap themselves up in creationism.

You're just peachy with patriot acts, foreign wars, deficits, the invasion of our southern border, and economic bankruptcy?

The thing wrong with your post, is your advocacy of the tyranny of the majority. Your concept that people must be ruled by government. Let me quote something important which seems lost on you.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ? That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ? That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

What you are talking about is government oppression, not size and power of government.
The government, including the Constitution, and the courts, and our own lack of involvement failed to protect us from the Bush administration's policies. Bush != the government.

Power and funding to force desegregation, return wolves to the West, regulate drugs, explore space, build supercolliders, and provide healthcare does not equate to abuse of power or oppression, despite what talk radio hosts say.

Torture of any person, integration of religion and the state, detaining people illegally, etc... All abuses of power. These are all things that the public wasn't opposed against or didn't care about until more recently. Even now the majority is ignorant and apathetic. So how could there be a check on power to do these things? WE were the ones who failed, we being the people AND the government. There is no "us vs government" battle here.

The government with the power to great good is the same government with the power to do great evil. How many dead Iraqis is a supercollider worth these days?

That depends on whether the dead Iraqis are civilians or insurgents.


How about this.. Blaming the government and its strength for illegal wiretapping is the same as blaming the military's size and power for Abu Graib and calling for job and funding cuts. It just doesn't add up. We all agree that better equipment, pay, and benefits for the troops is a good thing, and they're part of the government too. I think it's safe to say that no matter how well equipped they are, it wouldn't cross our minds to be afraid of jackbooted soldiers knocking down our doors, because the two are separate.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: mrCide
They'll be corrupted just like the government.

Why not have an electoral college made of common people having to pass an exam to vote?

Our entire government is made of common people, whether we choose to believe it or not. I know a few congressmen and a senator where I'm from, and they're not part of some far-reaching dark-cave conspiracy group. Just normal people.

Lawyers are not normal people.

 

[summit]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Why not? How about having another pillar of power in your society, instead of solely trusting the government? Perhaps a commission to uphold truth, openness in government affairs?

It could be elected and/or be composed of non political citizens entrusted with keeping the interests of public in mind.

Of course, the current establishment will never allow such a thing to happen. Too many people will have too many things to lose.

But it could actually work in America before anywhere in the world.

WTF is Centre? If you are addressing Americans use our spelling.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: broon
The people running for this new government will be the same ones running for the other. Plus...you can't deny a citizen from voting just because they can't pass a test.

Probably right on the first point. Completely wrong on the second.

 

[ahurtt]

I thought we already were creating another center of power. Right in the center of the middle east. It's called Iraq.

No but seriously. . .Perhaps a commission to uphold truth, openness in government affairs?
Something like this could only succeed if it were controlled and operated by computers instead of human beings.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Braznor

Originally posted by: mrCide
They'll be corrupted just like the government.

Why not have an electoral college made of common people having to pass an exam to vote?

Promotes the perception of inequality. And we just can't have inequality in America now can we? Nevermind the fact that all people are NOT in fact actually created equal like the Constitution would have us believe they are. And I'm not referring to race when I say this. It is just plainly evident that some people are just smarter, more attractive, stronger, faster, or better at certain things than other people are. Yeah there probably are some people who are actually better qualified to be voting and making decisions with regard to the direction of our countries future than other people. But that's the price you pay for having a democracy. Everybody has their say. And in the end, the government just does what it wants to anyway

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
The office of which you speak is the citizenry. We are responsible for our government.

Well then we are slackin' off something fierce.