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why dont we use satellites to convict criminals

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Originally posted by: sao123
just as soon as you try to intercept my government gps locator... I'm fairly certain its quite secure.
rfid + gps wins over sattelite any day of the week plus twice on sunday...
3 words... cost benefit analysis

RFID is rather short range
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: gigapet
Topic Title: why dont we use satellites to convict criminals

I think its pretty much established that the technology in place today can enable us to have everyone on video at all times. so y dont we use it.

Who said we don't???

WEll apparently everyone besides me doesnt even think its possible.


I think it is possible, we have a bunch of geosynchronous satelites that are probably doing it right now.

The only problem is , the gov doesn't want to share yet.

-MC
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: gigapet
Topic Title: why dont we use satellites to convict criminals

I think its pretty much established that the technology in place today can enable us to have everyone on video at all times. so y dont we use it.

Who said we don't???

WEll apparently everyone besides me realizes that it doesn't make enough sence to warrant trying.

fixed that for you.

 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: gigapet
Topic Title: why dont we use satellites to convict criminals

I think its pretty much established that the technology in place today can enable us to have everyone on video at all times. so y dont we use it.

Who said we don't???

WEll apparently everyone besides me doesnt even think its possible.

It is possible, but not on the wide scale you believe. The government already uses satellite imagery to track and find certain people, but the air time is expensive. Not only that, but the amount of time a satellite has in a certain orbit really limits where and what time the satellite can scan an area.
 
Originally posted by: talyn00
Originally posted by: sao123
just as soon as you try to intercept my government gps locator... I'm fairly certain its quite secure.
rfid + gps wins over sattelite any day of the week plus twice on sunday...
3 words... cost benefit analysis

RFID is rather short range

only due to current fcc regulations. the technology itself could transmit over a matter of about 5-8 miles if permitted. Probably farther, if they base it off a cellular phone model.
 
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet

I am not suggesting this be the defacto way to catch criminals....it could just be used as an additional tool.

Lemme guess.... 24 fan?

actually i've never seen the show. Not a big fan of tv unless its sopranos, ali g, curb ur enthusiasm, entourage....u know the hbo series.
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet

I am not suggesting this be the defacto way to catch criminals....it could just be used as an additional tool.

Lemme guess.... 24 fan?

actually i've never seen the show. Not a big fan of tv unless its sopranos, ali g, curb ur enthusiasm, entourage....u know the hbo series.

you ever watch that movie with will smith where they use the sattelites to track him?
what was that movie again?
 
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet

I am not suggesting this be the defacto way to catch criminals....it could just be used as an additional tool.

Lemme guess.... 24 fan?

😉 HAhahahahaha so funny, but probably so true.


Originally posted by: sao123
just as soon as you try to intercept my government gps locator... I'm fairly certain its quite secure.
rfid + gps wins over sattelite any day of the week plus twice on sunday...
3 words... cost benefit analysis

Also, very true. But I am sure the government uses it for certain cases. It is just too expensive to do it on a wide scale. I forgot one of the figures, but for something like a 1 minute satellite scan costs more money than what I will make in 10 years.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet

I am not suggesting this be the defacto way to catch criminals....it could just be used as an additional tool.

Lemme guess.... 24 fan?

actually i've never seen the show. Not a big fan of tv unless its sopranos, ali g, curb ur enthusiasm, entourage....u know the hbo series.

you ever watch that movie with will smith where they use the sattelites to track him?
what was that movie again?

enemy of the state?
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet

I am not suggesting this be the defacto way to catch criminals....it could just be used as an additional tool.

Lemme guess.... 24 fan?

actually i've never seen the show. Not a big fan of tv unless its sopranos, ali g, curb ur enthusiasm, entourage....u know the hbo series.

you ever watch that movie with will smith where they use the sattelites to track him?
what was that movie again?

enemy of the state?

yah thats it.
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: talyn00
Cause satellites don't see everything. And can you make a positive ID of someone just by looking at the top of their head?

y not? that sounds like speculation.

Take a course in remote sensing. There data has to be processed before it is "useful". After processing, that information won't be current anymore.

huh....current or not if someon got kidnapped freom a certain spot at a certain time xyz months ago and they have no leads they can just go back to that point at that time and see who was there. whats so infeasible about that? we flippin landed robots on mars we can surely do this.


Yet we're still playing the game, "Where's Osama?"

Technology just isn't there yet, and won't be for a long, long time.

wheres osama is part of the global political game irrelevant to technology. The govt. is in the business of controlling information.

Lets assume you are right and the technology isnt there today....what makes you think its going to be LONG LONG TIME? That rate of increase in technology is not a linear model its an exponential model as is the rate of change.

Long, long time = 15+ years at least. Costs, manpower required, etc. are just some of the things keeping this from happening. Get rid of that and then it becomes feasible. Like you said, technology increases with time and that is what is holding us back; we're not at the right time for this to happen yet.

 
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: talyn00
Cause satellites don't see everything. And can you make a positive ID of someone just by looking at the top of their head?

y not? that sounds like speculation.

Take a course in remote sensing. There data has to be processed before it is "useful". After processing, that information won't be current anymore.

huh....current or not if someon got kidnapped freom a certain spot at a certain time xyz months ago and they have no leads they can just go back to that point at that time and see who was there. whats so infeasible about that? we flippin landed robots on mars we can surely do this.


Yet we're still playing the game, "Where's Osama?"

Technology just isn't there yet, and won't be for a long, long time.

wheres osama is part of the global political game irrelevant to technology. The govt. is in the business of controlling information.

Lets assume you are right and the technology isnt there today....what makes you think its going to be LONG LONG TIME? That rate of increase in technology is not a linear model its an exponential model as is the rate of change.

Long, long time = 15+ years at least. Costs, manpower required, etc. are just some of the things keeping this from happening. Get rid of that and then it becomes feasible. Like you said, technology increases with time and that is what is holding us back; we're not at the right time for this to happen yet.

jeez man your time horizon is way off. We'll be kneed deep in nanotech in 15+ years.
 
Yeah, that's it............since you've seen it done in a movie, it MUST be feasible and true!! :roll:

So, when was the Knights Templar/Mason treasure found or who has that fantastic future-seeing device as in Paycheck or even the miniturizing the submarine to go inside the body to fix damage (Fantastic Voyage)?


I think you'll find that the vast amjority ofur surveillance imaging satellites are directed outward towards hostile environs........such as the Middle East, the old USSR, and the like.

As far as constant surveillance over the U.S., I highly doubt we do or can do what you suggest. If we actually could, don't you think England, our staunchest ally in the world, wou also be using this technology to fight crime there? Instead, they depend upon earth-bound cameras mounted on street corners and atop buildings for their civilian surveillance. Wonder why?
 
Originally posted by: Armitage
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: talyn00
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: talyn00
Cause satellites don't see everything. And can you make a positive ID of someone just by looking at the top of their head?

y not? that sounds like speculation.

Take a course in remote sensing. There data has to be processed before it is "useful". After processing, that information won't be current anymore.

huh....current or not if someon got kidnapped freom a certain spot at a certain time xyz months ago and they have no leads they can just go back to that point at that time and see who was there. whats so infeasible about that? we flippin landed robots on mars we can surely do this.

that is of course, assuming there was a satellite over that particular area at that particular time.

I'm fairly certain they have the majority of our country under surveilance at all times as it is.


Not even close. There are a relatively small number of imagery intelligence satelites flying, and the field of view of the sensor is very small for each of them. Not only is there not a imagery satellite overhead all the time ... even when one is above the horizon, it can only collect high quality pictures of a small fraction of what it flies over.

Not even going to get into the quality of the imagery you're claiming... :roll:

Winning argument, right here.
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Atomicus
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: talyn00
Cause satellites don't see everything. And can you make a positive ID of someone just by looking at the top of their head?

y not? that sounds like speculation.

Take a course in remote sensing. There data has to be processed before it is "useful". After processing, that information won't be current anymore.

huh....current or not if someon got kidnapped freom a certain spot at a certain time xyz months ago and they have no leads they can just go back to that point at that time and see who was there. whats so infeasible about that? we flippin landed robots on mars we can surely do this.


Yet we're still playing the game, "Where's Osama?"

Technology just isn't there yet, and won't be for a long, long time.

wheres osama is part of the global political game irrelevant to technology. The govt. is in the business of controlling information.

Lets assume you are right and the technology isnt there today....what makes you think its going to be LONG LONG TIME? That rate of increase in technology is not a linear model its an exponential model as is the rate of change.

Long, long time = 15+ years at least. Costs, manpower required, etc. are just some of the things keeping this from happening. Get rid of that and then it becomes feasible. Like you said, technology increases with time and that is what is holding us back; we're not at the right time for this to happen yet.

jeez man your time horizon is way off. We'll be kneed deep in nanotech in 15+ years.

Yeah but they that time we won't need satellites anymore. I'd have my phase plasma rifle (40 watt range of course) and my personal robotic assistant (ED209) to keep watch over me. Why worry about satellites tracking criminals when I can just vaporize them and have my robotic assistant scare them off?

Edit: and even if I was killed by a criminal, I would just have one of my clones take my place. My brain would be constantly backed up so all I would have to do is initiate a "restore brain" function and I'm good to go again.

 
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DnetMHZ
This is simply not currently do-able. We are FAR FAR (..did I mention FAR?) from having 24/7 full motion coverage of every square inch of the country.

Somebody has been watching too many movies.

how do you know or is this just speculation on your part because you havent seen it with your eyes yet.

Nice dodge, where does your certainty come from that most of the country is under that level of satellite coverage? I am pretty sure that most of the satellite coverage there is aimed at the US by our government is more of the weather and terrain observation type rather than the intellegence gathering type.

Judging by Google earth technology and what is avialble to the public today....its fairly safe to assume nasa/governemtn/military has had technology 10x more powerful for some years.

To have video surveillance of the entire country would require a LOT of satellites, in geosynchronous orbit.. millions to billions. That means they'd be in a very high orbit, which would make that impossible.

Geosync doesn't work - to far out (~42,000 Km) Imagery satellite operate at very low altitudes - on the order of hundreds of Km. Which is why the coverage area is so small. It would require hundreds of satellites at that altitude to approach full 24/7 coverage with good look angles just in terms of field of regard - never mind field of view.

Field of Regard: Geometric contraints, such as the horizon
Field of View: What you can actually see through the sensor

FOV << FOR for optical sensors - imagine trying to take a picture of a large mountain range with a powerful telephoto lens. You can see the whole thing, but when you look through the lens you can only see a very small piece at one time.

Regarding resolution - it's not a straight forward linear progression - you run into walls like atmospheric turbulence, etc. that fundamentally limit how good you can do. Adaptive optics are a big leap forward, but there are still limits.

And let's not forget - it's dark half the time and alot of clouds as well. Despite what you read in Tom Clancy books, we can't see in the dark from orbit to the extent that the OP is suggesting.

edit just looked at this post agin - millions to billions of geosync satellites?!? You can cover the whole earth to about +- 70 latitude with just 3 geosyncs. But as I said, you can't do useful imagery from that altitude.
 
I guess i could be used in some cases where the crime is committed outdoors in broad daylight. But what about crimes inside a building or at night which I would think are the majority?
 
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster
Originally posted by: gigapet
Originally posted by: DPmaster

Long, long time = 15+ years at least. Costs, manpower required, etc. are just some of the things keeping this from happening. Get rid of that and then it becomes feasible. Like you said, technology increases with time and that is what is holding us back; we're not at the right time for this to happen yet.

jeez man your time horizon is way off. We'll be kneed deep in nanotech in 15+ years.

Yeah but they that time we won't need satellites anymore. I'd have my phase plasma rifle (40 watt range of course) and my personal robotic assistant (ED209) to keep watch over me. Why worry about satellites tracking criminals when I can just vaporize them and have my robotic assistant scare them off?

Edit: and even if I was killed by a criminal, I would just have one of my clones take my place. My brain would be constantly backed up so all I would have to do is initiate a "restore brain" function and I'm good to go again.

BRAIN RESTORE FOR THE WINNNNNNN
 
Originally posted by: gigapet
I think its pretty much established that the technology in place today can enable us to have everyone on video at all times. so y dont we use it.

Do you want to sound like a clueless buffoon? Want people to think you have no idea what you're talking about? Act now and you too can sound just like your local village idiot!

That's right for just 3 easy payments of $29.95 we'll send you a free video describing all the techniques used by the pros to look and sound completely and utterly unaware of what planet they reside in!

Call in the next 20 minutes and we'll throw in this free English To Klingon dictionary! Yes you too can live in fantasy land completely unencumbered by reality!

 
There are something like 250 imagery satellites. Most of them are bunk pieces of cold war trash. But lets assume they're all nice, shiny, new models with 2 inch resolution. None of them are in a geostationary orbit because such an orbit would make for pretty pictures of the equator, but you can't see anything else. Each frame is less than a square mile. That's less than 250 square miles you can cover if you tasked them all to the same area at once. Which you can't do. Shouldn't we be covering 250 square miles of strategically important military campaign, instead of 250 square miles of suburbia on the off chance that someone might get kidnapped?

Just because Google Earth looks like the entire world is covered by satellites doesn't mean it is. You'll do well to notice that most of those images are old as dirt and were taken with low resolution junkers where you're lucky to make out a city, much less a vehicle.
 
When I worked at the DoD the highest resolution satellite imagines I saw were 2.5MP over 3 meters. That was a geostationary satellite, and it's viewing range was only 10 square miles. I'm not sure on exact figures, but last time I had a conversation about it, I remember it being something like >$45 million to launch a geostationary imaging satellite. And the United States is only 537,441 square miles. Hmm.
 
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