Why don't we have a decent prison system in the US?

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I spent two years in a prison. Figured I'd comment on a few points I've seen made. Prison is a very big deterrent. Can't remember seeing someone happy to go to jail even the most hardened guys. If it was so great you wouldn't see high speed chases, guys hiding in bushes, jumping fences etc. to get away.

Tv is worth what they pay for it. It's hard enough to control the inmates. Paying for satellite tv sure beats paying some inmates medical bills after he was attacked because people had too much time on their hands. And yes it happens anyways but take away any form of entertainment and feed them bread and water and I promise it gets much worse.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

So when you torrent your "Linux distros" you think about buttsecks?

 

[Smoblikat]

I watched a part of a show dealing with this not too long ago. I understand why poor countries don't have decent prisons, but this is the wealthiest country in history.

Why are the insides of so many prisons such lawless hellholes?

Why are gangs allowed to run the the inside of penal institutions? If it were up to me ANYONE engaging in ANY gang-related activity would immediately be confined to solitary for a year, second offense for the rest of their term. I mean, seriously - we allow racist gangs to congregate openly, fight turf wars, and intimidate other inmates? WTF? Why in the hell is this just accepted as normal prison behavior? Documentaries dealing with prisons talk about these gangs in almost reverential terms.

Why are prisoners allowed to work out with weights? So they can become super-criminals once they're released? Why do they get to watch TV or play any type of game or sport? The only things they should get are self-help books and chess sets.

How can rapes and murders occur in prisons? How is it even possible nowadays for inmates to be alone with each other long enough for these types of things to occur? Why haven't adjustments been made?

With all of the tech we have at our disposal now how can anyone escape ever?

Prison (for violent and habitual offenders) should be an extremely unpleasant place to be where you are offered help to turn your life around, and you should be "encouraged" to accept it by not wanting to come the fuck back.

These types of problems don't seem that difficult to solve, and I don't think it would require human rights violations. Since so much of prison industry is privatized now do they want repeat inmates?

Would you want to return to a corrupt fortress surrounded by people who want to rape/hurt/murder you? I think the current system offers enough deterrent. Those who are in gangs on the inside will be in gangs on the outside, so thats not really going to solve anything.


Do you want to know the REAL issue with prisons? Its simple....we have made going to jail profitable and a business thanks to privatized jails. If we give inmates all the ingredients they need to stay in jail, then the prison owners get more money. They dont want people getting better, or having a nice easy cruise through jail. The more people that commit crimes in prison, the longer they get to lock them up for....more $$$. If they keep the prison mentality outside of jail, they will surely have some repeat customers too!

 

[silverpig]

Because the system is largely a sham, run by for-profit corporations. The system from the bottom to the top is used to generate money for the established interests excepting the people unfortunate enough to get trapped in the system. No one gives a shit about them.

This. Some public service functions just should not be for-profit, ever.

 

[Jeff7]

To the OP, every answer to any question like this is the same. Follow the money.

Federal Prison Industries, created in 1934.
Only for government jobs, it says.

Who might get those jobs otherwise?
The private sector.

...or China, I suppose.


Ooh, and here are some more.

The companies that have benefited from this cheap labor include Starbucks (SBUX), Boeing (BA), Victoria’s Secret, McDonalds (MCD) and even the U.S. military.

Huh, "government" work. :hmm:


On one hand, it's nice to get some benefit from prisoners, rather than have them just do nothing during their stay. On the other, it starts to create dependency on a stable supply of cheap prison labor, and also a strong and dangerous financial incentive to maintain that supply.

 

[BoberFett]

It's called being poor without care for others or society. If they were wealthy, crime rates would drop tremendously. Amazing what money alone will do.

Agree 100%. Rich people don't commit crimes, just look at the NFL.

 

[StinkyPinky]

norway prison cell

It's not that amazing. Firstly it was probably taken when it was new, it probably doesn't look like that now. The bed is narrow as hell and all it has is a desk and chair. It's clean and tidy, as it should be.

 

[shortylickens]

The only places with better prisons than us are Japan, and a handful of euro states who dont piss away half their tax revenue on the military.

 

[unokitty]

When Gov. Schwarzenegger was in office... The costs of housing 167,000 state prison inmates were more than educating 226,000 students in the UC system... Darrel Steinberg, a Democrat from Sacramento stated, ‘In what civilized state of country do you spend more on prisons than on higher education? That’s a compelling argument to vote reform.” Between 2000 and 2008 the state’s correction budget doubled to $10.8 billion. UC President Mark Yudof said that he didn’t understand how California managed to build 24 prisons in the 25 years but only one additional research university.

“While in 1980 more than two-thirds of higher education funding came from the State, today only one-quarter does,” the report continued. Over that period, corrections spending expanded its share of the State’s General Fund by 436%.”

Think the situation in Cali might have something to do with the millions of dollars that the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spends?

My anecdotal experience with corrections came when I graduated from the MP Academy several decades ago. They wanted volunteers for correctional school. (Another month of training to be a jailer.) They offered an extra stripe ability to take extra leave and I can't remember what else.

No one. No one volunteered. No one wanted to be anywhere near a military prison in any capacity.

Uno

 

[bbhaag]

norway prison cell

How many people live in Norway? How many of those people are incarcerated every year? On a per capita basis would you say there is more or less crime in Norway than in the US?
You posted a pretty picture but does it tell the whole story?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

How many people live in Norway? How many of those people are incarcerated every year? On a per capita basis would you say there is more or less crime in Norway than in the US?
You posted a pretty picture but does it tell the whole story?

Do they have pretty prison rooms because they have low crime, or do they have low crime because they have pretty prison rooms?

 

[RelaxTheMind]

Watched quite a few netflix documentaries on prisons around the world. Quite a few of them dont have a "common" area. literally every prisoner is in solitary. A lot of the interviews make slurs toward "american" prisons.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Actually I think there is a prison in Texas where the warden swears by just giving them bread and water.

guess you're fucked if you have a celiac disease or a gluten/wheat allergy

 

[biostud]

Do they have pretty prison rooms because they have low crime, or do they have low crime because they have pretty prison rooms?

They have low crime because they have better social welfare.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

norway prison cell

i saw a program a couple years ago about prison in sweden i think. if you rob a bank or do a murder, they send you to a prison where they assign you a hot chick who "rehabilitates" you. its not anything like an american prison, its more like a dorm with hot r.a.

 

[mikeford]

This. Some public service functions just should not be for-profit, ever.

Running for a profit is immaterial to the issues, its lack of real oversight or good goals for the system. Not much difference between the prison system and the school system, both accomplish what the politicians want them to, and that is to keep the unions happy and voting them back in office.

My view, most people should be paroled with "real" tracking and supervision. Those that can't behave under parole get locked up. Those that can't behave in a basic lockup, go to someplace worse. repeat as needed. Everybody works.

 

[darkxshade]

The goal of the US prison system is to entice you to commit your crime internationally.

 

[Phoenix86]

Terrible response.

---

Agree with OP, it is shameful. The US sends far too many people to prison though and lacking enough money for each one corners are cut, so this kind of thing happens. I believe anybody sent to prison should at least feel secure, no matter the crime, that they will be protected from abuse from guards and fellow inmates. It is essentially barbaric to forcibly send somebody into an environment that is rife with victimization.

The US would have to spend more per person. If the budgets are kept where they are, that means less prisoners. More drug-related prisoners should be let out. I am for that, but coming down even harder than happens now for violent crime, of which I have no tolerance whatsoever, including and in fact particularly when perpetuated by teenagers. Far too many future murderers cut their teeth during teen years and get slapped on the wrist. Then they hit 18 and they've already had run-ins with the law, but they're still on the outside, and they are incapable of acting decently among decent people.

Found the problem, but hey, war on drugs AMIRITE?

 

[Eureka]

There are multiple issues at root here. We can pay even more into the prison system (we currently spend around $60k per year per inmate I believe), but that involves raising taxes and nobody wants to do that. We have a huge gang problem in the US in general, which means that a larger proportion of the prison population will be in gangs and providing gang influence. We have an overcrowding issue already as there are plenty of offenders but not enough prison space.

Dealing with gangs is a hard issue as most gang members are indoctrinated from a young age. More violent/influential gang members are placed into solitary but you only have so many cells in solitary and you also have to figure out who to place in there in the first place.

The overcrowding issue is inherent to the system, and it's hard to try and get people to fund more prisons and more prison guards. The current system places only a handful of guards for every 100 prisoners, sometimes even as few as 2 or 3 a shift. These guards are also unarmed to keep weapons away from prisoners.

But these are problems inherent to any prison system in a larger country, and I would go out on an arm and say we have one of the better systems for a country of this size. Prisoners are reasonably protected and sheltered, get plenty of opportunties for entertainment and still get a good quality of human rights protection. If you compared the prison system to one of say, Russia or Mexico, it would look like a resort. You can't just go out and compare to a smaller country's prison system, something like Norway or Sweden, without comparing culture, economy and demographics.

There's also quite a bit of confusion between prison and jail. Jail is for small crimes and for the yet to be convicted. Prison is meant for criminals with serious offenses. These aren't for people in rehab programs or for trespassing, but for violent or seriously repeat offenders.

 

[7window]

I watched a part of a show dealing with this not too long ago. I understand why poor countries don't have decent prisons, but this is the wealthiest country in history.

Why are the insides of so many prisons such lawless hellholes?

Why are gangs allowed to run the the inside of penal institutions? If it were up to me ANYONE engaging in ANY gang-related activity would immediately be confined to solitary for a year, second offense for the rest of their term. I mean, seriously - we allow racist gangs to congregate openly, fight turf wars, and intimidate other inmates? WTF? Why in the hell is this just accepted as normal prison behavior? Documentaries dealing with prisons talk about these gangs in almost reverential terms.

Why are prisoners allowed to work out with weights? So they can become super-criminals once they're released? Why do they get to watch TV or play any type of game or sport? The only things they should get are self-help books and chess sets.

How can rapes and murders occur in prisons? How is it even possible nowadays for inmates to be alone with each other long enough for these types of things to occur? Why haven't adjustments been made?

With all of the tech we have at our disposal now how can anyone escape ever?

Prison (for violent and habitual offenders) should be an extremely unpleasant place to be where you are offered help to turn your life around, and you should be "encouraged" to accept it by not wanting to come the fuck back.

These types of problems don't seem that difficult to solve, and I don't think it would require human rights violations. Since so much of prison industry is privatized now do they want repeat inmates?

The reason is because inside jail it becomes a society. The guard is in there just to guard not to be part of the society. Thats what happens when you put a bunch of misfit inside a building.

Our penal system is one of the best but as any penal system there is abuse. Not as bad as other country but there is abuse.

 

[CPA]

Those of you arguing about he for-profit prisons really do not understand the prison system.

There are only about 110 private prisons in the US out of about 4,600 total prisons. That's about 86,000 inmates out of 6 million that are incarcerated in private prisons.

Furthermore, contracts with the states are very specific to treatment of inmates, down to what they should be eating, how much exercise they must get, their medical care, the number of windows in the dorms, the size of exercise areas, etc. These and many more conditions are mandated by the contracts with the states and there are annual and surprise state audits to insure compliance.

I worked in a private prison for 2 years. I know it has a bad reputation, some of it earned, but the private prison industry is not necessarily driving the amenities in the prisons. The states do, usually through legislation or court decree (you wouldn't believe the number and type of lawsuits filed by inmates).

 

[CZroe]

I watched a part of a show dealing with this not too long ago. I understand why poor countries don't have decent prisons, but this is the wealthiest country in history.

Why are the insides of so many prisons such lawless hellholes?

Why are gangs allowed to run the the inside of penal institutions?

Because the existence of a gang isn't illegal, inside or out.

If it were up to me ANYONE engaging in ANY gang-related activity would immediately be confined to solitary for a year, second offense for the rest of their term.

It's not up to you: They must be tried and convicted of offenses committed while incarcerated just the same. They have rights. Prisoners in some "poor" or "third world" countries do not have full rights in much the same way as their "free" citizens do not either.

I mean, seriously - we allow racist gangs to congregate openly, fight turf wars, and intimidate other inmates? WTF? Why in the hell is this just accepted as normal prison behavior?

Inside or out, gangs usually form along ethnic lines for protection of a minority group from the majority. It's not "accepted." It just is. Why would you expect differently inside?

Documentaries dealing with prisons talk about these gangs in almost reverential terms.

Why are prisoners allowed to work out with weights? So they can become super-criminals once they're released? Why do they get to watch TV or play any type of game or sport? The only things they should get are self-help books and chess sets.

Why is one form of learning and recreation (text in books) superior and "OK" while another is not (audio/video in TV programs)? Chess over sports is the same argument. If chess is OK and other games are not, where do you draw the line?

How can rapes and murders occur in prisons? How is it even possible nowadays for inmates to be alone with each other long enough for these types of things to occur? Why haven't adjustments been made?

I guess we should have a 1:1 prisoner/guard ratio then.

With all of the tech we have at our disposal now how can anyone escape ever?

Because we aren't willing to throw unlimited expenses at it.

Prison (for violent and habitual offenders) should be an extremely unpleasant place to be where you are offered help to turn your life around, and you should be "encouraged" to accept it by not wanting to come the fuck back.

I think most of those aren't privileged with the comforts you are complaining about or are in for life.

These types of problems don't seem that difficult to solve, and I don't think it would require human rights violations. Since so much of prison industry is privatized now do they want repeat inmates?

To do what you expect would require rights violations (no presumption of innocence for any crime in prison).

 

[HOSED]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/locked-up-in-america/ Frontline recently had a bleeding heart slanted documentary about solitary in a Maine prison. The warden wants to try to put maniacal murders back in the general population after talk therapy. I say if you are in for life and commit any crime in prison you should be sent on a one way trip on a Korean Ferry piloted by 3rd mate Park Han-gyeol