Why don't Video Card Mfgr's Specify the Type of Ram they use

[Z15CAM]

I've read that Samsung appears to getting out of the Video Card vRam market and the latest GeForce cards are reported to be using Elpida modules. Not so good for the Over-Clocking Enthusiasts as it can't take much of a voltage increase.

I don't know if Hynix is still around but it was a great over-clocking module.

I'm surprized that Card Mfgrs making enthusiasts cards like the EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Classified, MSI GeForce GTX 780 Lightning or the Galaxy GeForce GTX 780 HOF would settle for anything less then Performance Ram Modules in their cards as they Advertize and Price them as if they have nothing but the best components.

One thing I've gathered over the years is that Over-Volting the GPU is more critical to a Video Cards performance then vRam Voltage but why does it take the Consumer to discover that the Hi-Performance card that he or she has bought has inferior Ram.

Why don't Video Card Mfgr's Specify the Type of Ram they use.

 

[Jaydip]

Because it affects literally 0.00(add how many you want)1% of users so they have no incentive.

 

[Z15CAM]

Because it affects literally 0.00(add how many you want)1% of users so they have no incentive.

So you believe somewhere between 0% to 1% buy Enthusiasts Cards and are not interested in whether they can over volt the vRam and run it at higher a Frequency. I never realized I was a member of such a low minority.

I believe the cards I mentioned are good Air Cooled Performance cards but I would say if you want to go extreme and Water Cool they are a waste of money as you're best just buying the cheaper reference card to start with.

 

[Jaydip]

So you believe somewhere between 0% to 1% buy Enthusiasts Cards and are not interested in whether they can over volt the vRam and run it at higher a Frequency. I never realized I was a member of such a low minority.

I believe the cards I mentioned are good Air Cooled Performance cards but I would say if you want to go extreme and Water Cool they are a waste of money as you're best just buying the cheaper reference card to start with.

It's not like that the other vendors don't let you overclock vram.Heck even among Samsung modules the result can vary dramatically.

 

[3DVagabond]

They often change the brand of vram depending on availability and price. Manufacturers do that with a lot of components. You'll find different brand caps used in PSUs, from time to time, etc...

 

[Z15CAM]

vendors don't let you overclock vram

They may not recommend it and attempt to prevent it but enthusiasts are very apt at finding ways of working around it.

They often change the brand of vram depending on availability and price. Manufacturers do that with a lot of components. You'll find different brand caps used in PSUs, from time to time, etc...

If I'm going to put out some $700 plus for a video card, I want to know what's under the hood. It just seems to me Card Mfgr's release their 1st batch with the Best vRam and reports come in from Enthusiasts how well the Ram OC's then after that Mfgr's replace the expensive Ram with cheaper modules on later batches and don't notify their customers of the change,

 

[3DVagabond]

If I'm going to put out some $700 plus for a video card, I want to know what's under the hood.

Why just the RAM? Why not the entire BoP?

What you are wanting just isn't practical. They often have to get parts from other sources than the primary suppliers. There was just a fire at the Hynix plant. That's what you find in most 7970's. You'll probably see some additional use of Elpida modules because of it.

If they advertised 7970's with Hynix RAM specifically it would create additional complications besides sourcing and implementing different components. Everybody does it. You'll find different components used in automobiles, appliances, and everything else at different times. That's why you often have to supply ser.# or VIN# or some sort of individual identification when getting parts for things.

 

[Z15CAM]

That's why you often have to supply ser.# or VIN# or some sort of individual identification when getting parts for things.

OK for example: If I elect to buy an EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Classified and want the Samsung vRam I would have to contact EVGA and get a list of Serial Numbers of the Cards with Samsung Ram, then ask the Vendor who selling the product to give me the SN of the card before I purchase it to ascertain whether I'm getting what I'm after.

I think it would just be simpler for the Mfgr to sticker the Box with the Info so the consumer knows what he or she is buying and not find out after purchasing their Flagship Card that it has inferior vRam.

It's possible to run either Samsung or Hyniz to 7000Ghz on air but no way can you do it with Elpida as it simply runs too hot with any voltage tweaking.

 

[spat55]

It wouldn't surprise me if for the stock cards they use worse memory in them and the overclocked and superclocked use higher end memory, it would make some more likely go for those models then...

 

[StrangerGuy]

So next time I going McDonalds I'm gonna reject any burger and fries unless they can provide the exact date, time, batch, farm the potatoes comes from as well as the sex, age and breed of the cow as well as whether the farmer is gun-toting redneck or not. Merely exercising my right as a informed consumer.

 

[Z15CAM]

It wouldn't surprise me if for the stock cards they use worse memory in them and the overclocked and superclocked use higher end memory, it would make some more likely go for those models then...

That is exactly my point. If you read forums Specific for these Hi-End Card Users, you will see that they are discovering that later batches of these cards are using Elpida vRam rather then Hynix or Samsung and the Ram will no longer OC.

Needless to say they feel ripped off and I don't want to be one of them.

Look at the "[Official] EVGA Classified Owner's Club" forum for instance: http://www.overclock.net/t/1411500/official-evga-classified-owners-club

 

[3DVagabond]

OK for example: If I elect to buy an EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Classified and want the Samsung vRam I would have to contact EVGA and get a list of Serial Numbers of the Cards with Samsung Ram, then ask the Vendor who selling the product to give me the SN of the card before I purchase it to ascertain whether I'm getting what I'm after.

I think it would just be simpler for the Mfgr to sticker the Box with the Info so the consumer knows what he or she is buying and not find out after purchasing their Flagship Card that it has inferior vRam.

It's possible to run either Samsung or Hyniz to 7000Ghz on air but no way can you do it with Elpida as it simply runs too hot with any voltage tweaking.

You can keep repeating your position, but it's not going to change anything. I understand that you want the best components, or your preferred components, but manufacturers don't do that for any components. You'd probably like to know the stock voltage and asic score for the GPU as well, for the same reasons. There's a whole host of info that would be pertinent to enthusiasts. They aren't going to do it. It increases costs and adds complexity and it's not going to help sales. It would more than likely hurt sales.

 

[3DVagabond]

That is exactly my point. If you read forums Specific for these Hi-End Card Users, you will see that they are discovering that later batches of these cards are using Elpida vRam rather then Hynix or Samsung and the Ram will no longer OC.

Needless to say they feel ripped off and I don't want to be one of them.

If you honestly feel that they are doing it for less than honorable reasons (like for example a shortage of Samsung DDR5 as has been reported), why would you want to reward them by buying anything they make? If they use bait and switch tactics in their marketing by reviewing better quality/performing cards and selling people substandard product give them their just rewards and stay away.

There are people who will only buy reference board AMD cards for the reason that some AIB custom boards use inferior components. Then they add custom cooling. It's more expensive, but it gets them what they want.

 

[ShintaiDK]

They often change the brand of vram depending on availability and price. Manufacturers do that with a lot of components. You'll find different brand caps used in PSUs, from time to time, etc...

^^ This.

 

[StrangerGuy]

If you honestly feel that they are doing it for less than honorable reasons (like for example a shortage of Samsung DDR5 as has been reported), why would you want to reward them by buying anything they make? If they use bait and switch tactics in their marketing by reviewing better quality/performing cards and selling people substandard product give them their just rewards and stay away.

There are people who will only buy reference board AMD cards for the reason that some AIB custom boards use inferior components. Then they add custom cooling. It's more expensive, but it gets them what they want.

Just let this stupid thread die because the OP is complete idiot who doesn't understand the ultra complicated fact that all the card manufacturer needs to do is to make sure the card works correctly at the rated specs. Nothing more.

Warning issued for personal attack.
-- stahlhart

 

[Z15CAM]

the card manufacturer needs to do is to make sure the card works correctly at the rated specs. Nothing more.

I'm well aware this.

And as for your statement

because the OP is complete idiot

proves that you suffer the OnLine Bully Syndrome and are breaching Anandtech Forum Rules and should be Banned.

At OverClock.Net they have the 780 Classified up around 1375/7500 Mhz on air and 1622/1953 on water & EVBot with the Samsung but not so with the Elpida vRam.

Although my i7 2700k is Water Cooled I'm not interested in Water cooling the GTX 780 nor am I interested in the extreme OC'g that the people do with these cards but I intend to flash for Voltage Control and run some where around 1250/7000 Mhz when OC'd with a Korean 27" PLS QX2710 1440p Display and I do not want that weaker Ram getting it the way.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm well aware this.

And as for your statement proves that you suffer the OnLine Bully Syndrome and are breaching Anandtech Forum Rules and should be Banned.

At OverClock.Net they have the 780 Classified up around 1375/7500 Mhz on air and 1622/1953 on water & EVBot with the Samsung but not so with the Elpida vRam.

Although my i7 2700k is Water Cooled I'm not interested in Water cooling the GTX 780 nor am I interested in the extreme OC'g that the people do with these cards but I intend to flash for Voltage Control and run some where around 1300/7000 Mhz when OC'd with a Korean 27" PLS QX2710 1440p Display and I do not want that weaker Ram getting it the way.

You might have to wait for a while and hope. FWIU all of them are currently shipping with Elpida RAM. I've even read where Samsung is getting out of the DDR5 OEM business.

 

[blackened23]

You're not understanding. A manufacturer cannot do this because there are VRAM shortages constantly, which is precisely what is happening to samsung VRAM right now. If anyone advertised Samsung VRAM, they would have to pull their product because of the shortage. Do you think any AIB manufacturer is going to be stupid enough to do that?

Lastly, give me a break. Nobody cares about this garbage. Nobody except .0000000000001% of users.

 

[MTDEW]

Just let this stupid thread die because the OP is complete idiot who doesn't understand the ultra complicated fact that all the card manufacturer needs to do is to make sure the card works correctly at the rated specs. Nothing more.

His question was legit, i can easily see how someone who is paying a higher price for a premium card would want to know the extra $$$ is well spent on better components.

Given a choice, i'm sure most GPU enthusiasts on this site would choose to spend a bit more on a card with guaranteed better components if indeed a manufacture would market certain premium cards as guaranteed to have such components.

So I don't think it was a bad question at all.

Anyway, calling the OP a "complete idiot" is certainly uncalled for and adds nothing to the topic being discussed.

 

[Erenhardt]

I've read that Samsung appears to getting out of the Video Card vRam market and the latest GeForce cards are reported to be using Elpida modules. Not so good for the Over-Clocking Enthusiasts as it can't take much of a voltage increase.

I don't know if Hynix is still around but it was a great over-clocking module.

Maximum performance vary on piece to piece basis. The guaranteed speed is the stock speed of module.
How can you say one ram is good for overclocking and one is not? Is it the headroom (variable on piece to piece basis) that you can overclock to? It is just a difference between stock speeds and max overclock. One is a variable, the other is set by GPU manufacturer. From this, the overclocking value of VRAM depends only on how much the manufacturer pushed the modules from the get go.

Why don't Video Card Mfgr's Specify the Type of Ram they use.

I will answer to this in a for of counter-question:
Why don't Motherbard Mfgr's Specify the Type of Capacitors they use?

 

[StrangerGuy]

His question was legit, i can easily see how someone who is paying a higher price for a premium card would want to know the extra $$$ is well spent on better components.

Given a choice, i'm sure most GPU enthusiasts on this site would choose to spend a bit more on a card with guaranteed better components if indeed a manufacture would market certain premium cards as guaranteed to have such components.

So I don't think it was a bad question at all.

Anyway, calling the OP a "complete idiot" is certainly uncalled for and adds nothing to the topic being discussed.

If you demand a SKU with guaranteed parts that is YOUR problem. Unless they sell such a product they have exactly zero obligation to entertain you. So I do not see anything else in here except overentitlement syndrome with the gall to cry being bullied online when called out.

 

[blackened23]

This entire thing is based on the false premise that some brands of VRAM perform better. I don't completely buy that because plenty of folks have OC'ed their Elpida VRAM to 7ghz and higher. Paranoia goes a long way on internet forums, supposedly.

Additionally, as has been mentioned, advertising a specific brand of VRAM would be be a bad business move and would simply lead to an AIB selling less or none of a product. If anyone currently advertised Samsung VRAM, they wouldn't be able to sell a single card. - Samsung is having very serious supply issues right now, nobody can get a hold of Samsung GDDR5. I hope you can see why advertising a specific brand of VRAM is, quite simply, idiotic. Besides which, nobody cares. .001% of users who happen to overclock might care, but nobody else does.

 

[MTDEW]

If you demand a SKU with guaranteed parts that is YOUR problem. Unless they sell such a product they have exactly zero obligation to entertain you. So I do not see anything else in here except overentitlement syndrome with the gall to cry being bullied online when called out.

See, i didn't take his question as "overentitlement".
As we all know a card is only guaranteed for its rated speeds and everything over that is "luck of the draw" and not guaranteed.

I took as him asking why don't they make cards advertising using the best components and market them as such so the end user knows exactly what they are getting.

And of course, his question has been answered several times and apparently isn't practical or even possible to do so.
That is why they don't advertise/guarantee certain components.

I still see it as someone asking a legit question just wanting to know why.

 

[Z15CAM]

Thanks for your input Guys but I still feel we should not be subject to the luck of the draw on receiving weaker components in consideration for what we pay for Hi-End Cards especially when it comes to Ram. It would not take much for the Mfgr to simply place a sticker on the Box as to the type of Ram used it a particular Batch Run.

After doing some reading this evening I see Forum Members of the EVGA 870 Classified Owners Club at OverClock.net are reporting that the latest run of the Classifieds appear to have Samsung vRam.