Why don't they move voting online?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic
Oregon's system of vote by mail with physical ballot drop-off sites (mostly public libraries, but you can still put a stamp on it and mail it back if you want too, so long as it gets back on time) seems to work best for what the OP is looking for, with no 'poll tax' worries.

The beauty of vote by mail IMO is no physical address no ballot. Plus it leaves a complete paper trail. And there is IMO nothing like voting from the convenience and privacy of your own home, with plenty of time to study all the candidates and issues. I think the biggest complaint of VBM though is how it has undermined the whole Election Day tradition.

No, the biggest complaint is that you don't actually know the person who fills it out is actually the one who is supposed to be filling it out. What is to stop people from registering multiple people at their address and getting more than one ballot? We've seen how groups like ACORN try to and have succeeded in registering FAKE/FALSE registrations... so this is a HUGE concern.

 

[alkemyst]

biometrics.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Somehow, I cannot view disenfranchisement of the homeless as a beautiful thing.

Lose your job, lose your home, lose your vote.
Do you seriously have no problem with that?

No one says you actually have to live at that address. You just have to have one. That's the same as traditional precinct polling, you have to prove residency in order to vote. Except with VBM, if you don't actually have access to that location, then you won't get your ballot in the mail. Unlike with precinct polling, where you could fudge an address based on fake documentation, and then just show up at the polls on election day.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No, the biggest complaint is that you don't actually know the person who fills it out is actually the one who is supposed to be filling it out. What is to stop people from registering multiple people at their address and getting more than one ballot? We've seen how groups like ACORN try to and have succeeded in registering FAKE/FALSE registrations... so this is a HUGE concern.

WRONG. This problem is independent of vote by mail systems, and can happen just as easily with tradition polls. And VBM actually reduces such fraud as I explained above.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No, the biggest complaint is that you don't actually know the person who fills it out is actually the one who is supposed to be filling it out. What is to stop people from registering multiple people at their address and getting more than one ballot? We've seen how groups like ACORN try to and have succeeded in registering FAKE/FALSE registrations... so this is a HUGE concern.

WRONG. This problem is independent of vote by mail systems, and can happen just as easily with tradition polls. And VBM actually reduces such fraud as I explained above.

WRONG. It IS the biggest complaint and it's a VERY real concern. Just because VBM helps prevent some fraud, does not mean it doesn't open doors for even more fraud. In this case, it's people who may fill out ballots that aren't theirs or may fill out more than one.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I feel we SHOULD move to voting online as an additional option. Everyone's already talked about online banking. We have some very good authentication methods out there like BoA's sitekey, HSBC's manual key-in of your password using their online keypad, etc. I think we can throw in say a 3rd party identification device like a smart card thing, but the fact of the matter is you can sell your vote whether you have an online ballot of an absentee paper ballot.

If you want to push to get the vote out, then you would be pushing for online voting. In my 4 elections (not all presidential.. I'm not that old) I've voted for I've never gone to the polls. Always absentee from the beginning. No one has freaking time and the lines are too damn long if you go after work. Who wants to wait hours in line to get their vote out anyway?

Absentee ballots destroy the voting process, and I'd rather have my vote counted THE DAY OF, and that can be done with simple online voting.

 

[yowolabi]

Imagine not being able to vote because you can't remember your password. How would one do a password reset... through an email? All of a sudden, it doesn't matter how secure the site is if you can have your vote stolen through a breakin to yahoo or hotmail.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Logistics is the reason.

How would you go about setting up an account for every eligible person on the planet?
Where is all of this disk space coming from and do you have any idea of the cost of a SAN?
Many top notch orgs have been hacked into including the DoD.
How do you ensure/verify identity until you address the first question I posed?
How do you make sure that each vote is counted in the district that it is supposed to have been cast in?
How do you deal with anonymous proxies, etc?

And a whole host of others come to mind.

 

[SagaLore]

Excellent idea. They should even making the voting interface like WoW. You need to complete quests to collect voting points.

:roll:

 

[ZOOYUKA]

I'm sure ACORN would love that.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No, the biggest complaint is that you don't actually know the person who fills it out is actually the one who is supposed to be filling it out. What is to stop people from registering multiple people at their address and getting more than one ballot? We've seen how groups like ACORN try to and have succeeded in registering FAKE/FALSE registrations... so this is a HUGE concern.

WRONG. This problem is independent of vote by mail systems, and can happen just as easily with tradition polls. And VBM actually reduces such fraud as I explained above.

WRONG. It IS the biggest complaint and it's a VERY real concern. Just because VBM helps prevent some fraud, does not mean it doesn't open doors for even more fraud. In this case, it's people who may fill out ballots that aren't theirs or may fill out more than one.

I think you (1) don't understand how Oregon's VBM system works to prevent this fraud, and (2) didn't understand that I said that the fraud you're talking about is independent of VBM, i.e. happens with traditional polling methods just as easily and often and with VBM. It's not like dishonest people don't already (and for the past 200+ years) fill out ballots that aren't theirs or visit multiple polling stations on election day with traditional elections.

If you have evidence otherwise, as you imply, please post it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA
I'm sure ACORN would love that.

Are you on crack? They and the ACLU would be the first ones to be against it, for reasons already mentioned a dozen times over here -- it would effectively create a poll tax. Meaning it would make it harder for poor people to vote, not easier.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA
I'm sure ACORN would love that.

Are you on crack? They and the ACLU would be the first ones to be against it, for reasons already mentioned a dozen times over here -- it would effectively create a poll tax. Meaning it would make it harder for poor people to vote, not easier.

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
Not everyone uses a computer.

I didn't say get rid of voting stations.

i don't know what you're going on about, vic.

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA
I'm sure ACORN would love that.

Are you on crack? They and the ACLU would be the first ones to be against it, for reasons already mentioned a dozen times over here -- it would effectively create a poll tax. Meaning it would make it harder for poor people to vote, not easier.

Thats why they would love it. It would give them the opportunity to be creative and fix the problem.

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
Excellent idea. They should even making the voting interface like WoW. You need to complete quests to collect voting points.

:roll:

Instead of voting, the presidency could be decided by tournaments between guilds.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No, the biggest complaint is that you don't actually know the person who fills it out is actually the one who is supposed to be filling it out. What is to stop people from registering multiple people at their address and getting more than one ballot? We've seen how groups like ACORN try to and have succeeded in registering FAKE/FALSE registrations... so this is a HUGE concern.

WRONG. This problem is independent of vote by mail systems, and can happen just as easily with tradition polls. And VBM actually reduces such fraud as I explained above.

WRONG. It IS the biggest complaint and it's a VERY real concern. Just because VBM helps prevent some fraud, does not mean it doesn't open doors for even more fraud. In this case, it's people who may fill out ballots that aren't theirs or may fill out more than one.

I think you (1) don't understand how Oregon's VBM system works to prevent this fraud, and (2) didn't understand that I said that the fraud you're talking about is independent of VBM, i.e. happens with traditional polling methods just as easily and often and with VBM. It's not like dishonest people don't already (and for the past 200+ years) fill out ballots that aren't theirs or visit multiple polling stations on election day with traditional elections.

If you have evidence otherwise, as you imply, please post it.

I didn't say it couldn't be done today, but it's made MUCH easier with VBM. People taking care of elderly/invalid parents/adults - quick, easy, and untraceable. Registering multiple people in the house - all ballots being filled out by one person. ETC. The point is- it's made easier to commit this type of fraud since there is no verification that the person filling out the ballot is the one who is supposed to be. At a polling place - you should have to show ID an be on the registration rolls. Sure, someone could game that system even with ID checks and such but it'd be much more difficult and would involve making/posessing a false ID.

So again, you are wrong wrong wrong - VBM does make it easier for fraud despite your attempts to claim it doesn't.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Because in an election between Obama and McCain, the winner by a landslide would be Ron Paul.

Actually Ron Paul has been president for the last 3 years; even now, he's working on a top level plan to get my cat to stop eating grass.

 

[Thegonagle]

Well, MN, by law, requires a paper trail, and has ever since they ditched the old mechanical lever machines in the late eighties. Laws can be changed, but that would be going backwards, IMO.