why dont other countries get it?

[HOWITIS]

i see a bunch of responses from people from other countries asking how could we possibly re-elect bush after what he has done. i want to ask a serius question, what is the worst thing he has done, and keep some things in mind.


1) Americans love war

this may be hard to see from a european point of veiw, but americans rarley see a war it doesn't like, things have to be going, really, really, really, bad just to not help a president. the iraqi war hurt bush but only a little. americans dislike some of the things that are happening in iraq, but americans still love killing people.



2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country


by western standards that is. the majority of americans consider themselves christian. and there is a high portion of extremly religous zealots here. this has ALWAYS been the case. it is nothing new. what IS new is that the religous seem to be bolting the democratic party for the rebublican party at a very fast rate. it all started with reagan when he began to moralize politics. i spoke with my aunt who said she liked kerry better, but she couldn't vote for someone who was pro-abortion so she had no choice. The south used to be almost 100% democratic. but it is also the most religous part of the country. starting in the 60s the democrats increasingly began to move away from religon, with many canidates having a distain for religon's high roll in southern/midwest politics. it is the democrats own fault for abandoning the religous speak as soley for republicans that they have lost the south.



3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

patriotism is taught in schools. the "founding fathers" are all but dietys here. i personally do not know anyone who doubts that ameria is the best country in the world. it is a fact. unquestioned. to even question this "fact" in america is to discredit yourself. this goes back to point #1 as well. bush didnt take any hit from "going it alone" americans generally do not like the french, germans, and certainly not the russians. so believe it or not. excepet for democrat hard liners and the liberal left, no one is really worried about rather they like us or not. in fact, i would venture to say that kerry's plan of increased alliances is one of the reasons americans didnt trust him to run the war on terror. because americans dont trust the rest of the world. and alliances in general.



so given these 3 points, why is it hard at all to believe?

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Bush's whole attitude toward the UN I imagine.

 

[JackieO]

As a Canadian living in America all I can tell you is that there are fundamental differences between the two countries which often get overlooked. Having spent a large portion of my youth in Europe I know this is also true there. I don't think it's possible for anyone from either country to get any sort of accurate view of the "normal every day people" from the other without spending an extended amount of time in multiple places there. There seems to be this uniform ignorance on both sides of the border and while Canadians realize Americans are more conservative in general (and vice versa), I don't think most people from either country truly understand the depth and extent of the differences between the average person or the overwhelming ideology of the majority of the voters from either country. A simple but obvious example is the difference in the way elections (and government) happen in both countries. Both of which are democracies. The idea of two parties (or in the case now, one party) controlling every arm of government in Canada is pretty foreign.

On a fundamental base level Canadians and Western Europeans view their countries, their countries place in the world, and the world as a whole very, very differently - and this sort of thing effects elections at home, which often leaves the other countries scratching their heads.

 

[HOWITIS]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
Bush's whole attitude toward the UN I imagine.

maybe i didnt make myself clear, but americans dislike the UN

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS
i see a bunch of responses from people from other countries asking how could we possibly re-elect bush after what he has done. i want to ask a serius question, what is the worst thing he has done, and keep some things in mind.


1) Americans love war

this may be hard to see from a european point of veiw, but americans rarley see a war it doesn't like, things have to be going, really, really, really, bad just to not help a president. the iraqi war hurt bush but only a little. americans dislike some of the things that are happening in iraq, but americans still love killing people.



2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country


by western standards that is. the majority of americans consider themselves christian. and there is a high portion of extremly religous zealots here. this has ALWAYS been the case. it is nothing new. what IS new is that the religous seem to be bolting the democratic party for the rebublican party at a very fast rate. it all started with reagan when he began to moralize politics. i spoke with my aunt who said she liked kerry better, but she couldn't vote for someone who was pro-abortion so she had no choice. The south used to be almost 100% democratic. but it is also the most religous part of the country. starting in the 60s the democrats increasingly began to move away from religon, with many canidates having a distain for religon's high roll in southern/midwest politics. it is the democrats own fault for abandoning the religous speak as soley for republicans that they have lost the south.



3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

patriotism is taught in schools. the "founding fathers" are all but dietys here. i personally do not know anyone who doubts that ameria is the best country in the world. it is a fact. unquestioned. to even question this "fact" in america is to discredit yourself. this goes back to point #1 as well. bush didnt take any hit from "going it alone" americans generally do not like the french, germans, and certainly not the russians. so believe it or not. excepet for democrat hard liners and the liberal left, no one is really worried about rather they like us or not. in fact, i would venture to say that kerry's plan of increased alliances is one of the reasons americans didnt trust him to run the war on terror. because americans dont trust the rest of the world. and alliances in general.



so given these 3 points, why is it hard at all to believe?

WE simply refuse to believe people as being this stupid. Something this forum has learned me to accept. You wouldn't believe the shock i got the first times i was here, i thought people were joking.

 

[Strk]

3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

I love being an American and all, but I just don't get this statement. Why are we more patriotic in the rest of the world?

 

[StageLeft]

penis envy

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS


1) Americans love war

2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country

3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

1) Americans didn't always love war. After WWII, we learned that isolationism doesn't work. Americans will no longer sit idly by while the world suffers. Now, we can't fight every battle, but that does not invalidate the ones we do.

2) Americans aren't any more religious than europeans. The only difference is that our higher power isn't government.

3) This is a tough one. While it's up there, I would also say the US is one of the most nationalistic nation.

I think europeans don't get it because they formed the EU in part to contain the US. Once upon a time, americans viewed most europeans as allies. It has become clear that they are out for their own interests, almost all of the time. Once realization set in that France, Germany and Russia are NOT our allies (but also not enemies), the american opinion of dealings with the EU/UN/etc. changed.

 

[Steeplerot]

Ouch that hurts, This seems pretty accurate for the current mindset coming from the red states.
Sucks cuz the ones easiest to bomb (on the outside in the cities) are the ones trying NOT to invade the world and piss everyone off.

 

[Ornery]

How do you decide what to capitalize, and what not to? As long as your topic is going to be part of an archive for a few years, why not trouble yourself enough to use proper punctuation, instead of randomly capitalizing a word here and there, like your handle, America, and Europe?

Oh, and if you're wondering, I couldn't concentrate on anything you wrote, because that shlt bugs me so much!

 

[Vic]

1. It's the war part that bothers the Europeans. They've had a bit too much of it. And they think that our attitude towards war is because war hasn't quite ever hit home for us the way it has for them. And I think they might be right about that.

2. The South is allowed too much influence over American politics, and their peculiar brand of "Chrisitianity" is the kind that would crucify Christ all over again if He ever returned. The only reason the South voted straight Democrat before Reagan was because the Republicans were (and still are) the party of Lincoln. It was the "traitorous" LBJ, when he signed the Civil Rights Act, that really began the party switch down South, and it was the idiotic Carter who finished the job. Religion had very little to do with it.

3. Damn right we're the most patriotic state in the world! And well we should be. We are the best, built from the castoff rejects of every other nation on earth. They said we couldn't do it, and we did, in spades. But to dislike the French just for being French simply demonstrates how little actual history is taught in our schools. Without the direct help of the French, our Founding Fathers would never have pulled off the revolution.


Fun stuff. Have a

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Ornery
How do you decide what to capitalize, and what not to? As long as your topic is going to be part of an archive for a few years, why not trouble yourself enough to use proper punctuation, instead of randomly capitalizing a word here and there, like your handle, America, and Europe?

Oh, and if you're wondering, I couldn't concentrate on anything you wrote, because that shlt bugs me so much!

There are plenty more problems in the post than just a few missed(ok, a lot missed) cases of capitalization.

 

[HOWITIS]

Originally posted by: Ornery
How do you decide what to capitalize, and what not to? As long as your topic is going to be part of an archive for a few years, why not trouble yourself enough to use proper punctuation, instead of randomly capitalizing a word here and there, like your handle, America, and Europe?

Oh, and if you're wondering, I couldn't concentrate on anything you wrote, because that shlt bugs me so much!

proof read it for me and i'll repost it, i dont care enough to do it myself, sorry

 

[freegeeks]

as an European I stopped caring about the USA election

as long as I have my 30 days of paid vacation I really don't giving a flying f*ck anymore that you re-elected Dumbo

have a nice vacation in Iraq!!!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS
proof read it for me and i'll repost it, i dont care enough to do it myself, sorry

If you don't care enough to present yourself intelligently on a public forum, then why do you expect us to care enough to read what you post? Try showing some respect to other people.

 

[ntdz]

i STRONGLY dispute the assertion that Americans love war. We go to war when we feel we have to. We *do not* go around looking for wars or conflicts. I personally would prefer a no war society, but I'm a realist. War is sometimes necessary, and right.

your 2nd and 3rd points, I have to agree with you on, you are correct.

On your third point however, we do trust alliances. I don't know about other people on this board, but I feel like the UK and USA are joined in an unbreakable alliance. I would be comfortable supporting them in whatever they do. They are our #1 ally, I totally respect them, trust them, and an attack on them is an attack on us. I don't trust France or Germany at all, I don't consider them strong allies. Are they generally friendly countries towards us? Yeah. Do i harbor negative feelings about them? Not towards Germany, but towards France yes. The reason? They didn't just not support the Iraq war, they deliberately undermined our efforts and tried to make it harder for us.

 

[kazeakuma]

Originally posted by: Vic
1. It's the war part that bothers the Europeans. They've had a bit too much of it. And they think that our attitude towards war is because war hasn't quite ever hit home for us the way it has for them. And I think they might be right about that.

2. The South is allowed too much influence over American politics, and their peculiar brand of "Chrisitianity" is the kind that would crucify Christ all over again if He ever returned. The only reason the South voted straight Democrat before Reagan was because the Republicans were (and still are) the party of Lincoln. It was the "traitorous" LBJ, when he signed the Civil Rights Act, that really began the party switch down South, and it was the idiotic Carter who finished the job. Religion had very little to do with it.

3. Damn right we're the most patriotic state in the world! And well we should be. We are the best, built from the castoff rejects of every other nation on earth. They said we couldn't do it, and we did, in spades. But to dislike the French just for being French simply demonstrates how little actual history is taught in our schools. Without the direct help of the French, our Founding Fathers would never have pulled off the revolution.


Fun stuff. Have a

1. I would think it's mainly WW2. Americans had plenty of bloodshed last century with civil war, and the 'pacification' of Indians. WW2 however, Americans were not attacked on home soil (Pearl Harbour barely counts, sorry), bombed till there was nothing left of cities, lined up in front of pits and shot. I think since then, Europe has tread a little more lightly when it comes to conflict. Sadly, America profited greatly from the second World War and thus I can see why (at least economically) Americans like war.

2. No idea about the whole North/South thing so no comment.

3. I would believe that, and it's a good thing to be patriotic. I think it's great that you have so much pride in your country. Like Vic said though, other countries do want to help, but it's when you piss on them they don't take too kindly to helping again. Instead of, OMG WTF you don't want war, you French pussies, I'm off to eat my freedom fries. You could accept the opinion of an ALLY (well maybe once, who knows now) and still disagree. No reason to piss on them just because they hold different views.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

ndtz you are dead wrong. Americans, at least those that voted for Bush, are definitely "chickenhawks". They want the enemy to be crushed, but they are unwilling to fight the war themselves. To say that you didn't want this Iraq war or that Bush didn't want it is complete BS. Anyone with half a brain can see that, the facts are overwhelming and the evidence just doesn't support your case.

My only hope for the Dems. in 2008 is to field a candidate that Democrats are excited to vote for. I think the way the South is, there is no way for the Democratic party to make inroads unless they change their ideals and I don't want to be associated with a party like that. The best hope for Democrats is to nab those mid-west states and lockup the west and northeast coasts.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
ndtz you are dead wrong. Americans, at least those that voted for Bush, are definitely "chickenhawks". They want the enemy to be crushed, but they are unwilling to fight the war themselves.

Wrong

"To say that you didn't want this Iraq war or that Bush didn't want it is complete BS. " Wrong again. Saddam's actions created this conflict.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
ndtz you are dead wrong. Americans, at least those that voted for Bush, are definitely "chickenhawks". They want the enemy to be crushed, but they are unwilling to fight the war themselves. To say that you didn't want this Iraq war or that Bush didn't want it is complete BS. Anyone with half a brain can see that, the facts are overwhelming and the evidence just doesn't support your case.

My only hope for the Dems. in 2008 is to field a candidate that Democrats are excited to vote for. I think the way the South is, there is no way for the Democratic party to make inroads unless they change their ideals and I don't want to be associated with a party like that. The best hope for Democrats is to nab those mid-west states and lockup the west and northeast coasts.

really now? What percentage of soldiers would you say voted for Bush and voted for Kerry? The fact of the matter is that most of the military is Republican. Not all 60 million of us Bush supporters can join the military, or want to.

Edit: and yeah, I wanted the Iraq war. I didn't want it for the sake of killing people or hurting people. It was for the good of our country in the long run, and hopefully for the Iraqi people. Obviously the war has been tough, but in the end I hope it will have been a worthwhile war, and so should you.

 

[kazeakuma]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
ndtz you are dead wrong. Americans, at least those that voted for Bush, are definitely "chickenhawks". They want the enemy to be crushed, but they are unwilling to fight the war themselves.

Wrong

"To say that you didn't want this Iraq war or that Bush didn't want it is complete BS. " Wrong again. Saddam's actions created this conflict.

Bull, Bush's actions created the Iraq conflict. We all know Saddam was a tyrant, but to say he caused the Iraq conflict is utter BS

 

[dnuggett]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: HOWITIS
i see a bunch of responses from people from other countries asking how could we possibly re-elect bush after what he has done. i want to ask a serius question, what is the worst thing he has done, and keep some things in mind.


1) Americans love war

this may be hard to see from a european point of veiw, but americans rarley see a war it doesn't like, things have to be going, really, really, really, bad just to not help a president. the iraqi war hurt bush but only a little. americans dislike some of the things that are happening in iraq, but americans still love killing people.



2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country


by western standards that is. the majority of americans consider themselves christian. and there is a high portion of extremly religous zealots here. this has ALWAYS been the case. it is nothing new. what IS new is that the religous seem to be bolting the democratic party for the rebublican party at a very fast rate. it all started with reagan when he began to moralize politics. i spoke with my aunt who said she liked kerry better, but she couldn't vote for someone who was pro-abortion so she had no choice. The south used to be almost 100% democratic. but it is also the most religous part of the country. starting in the 60s the democrats increasingly began to move away from religon, with many canidates having a distain for religon's high roll in southern/midwest politics. it is the democrats own fault for abandoning the religous speak as soley for republicans that they have lost the south.



3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

patriotism is taught in schools. the "founding fathers" are all but dietys here. i personally do not know anyone who doubts that ameria is the best country in the world. it is a fact. unquestioned. to even question this "fact" in america is to discredit yourself. this goes back to point #1 as well. bush didnt take any hit from "going it alone" americans generally do not like the french, germans, and certainly not the russians. so believe it or not. excepet for democrat hard liners and the liberal left, no one is really worried about rather they like us or not. in fact, i would venture to say that kerry's plan of increased alliances is one of the reasons americans didnt trust him to run the war on terror. because americans dont trust the rest of the world. and alliances in general.



so given these 3 points, why is it hard at all to believe?

WE simply refuse to believe people as being this stupid. Something this forum has learned me to accept. You wouldn't believe the shock i got the first times i was here, i thought people were joking.

Funny how these stupid people have the greatest country on the planet.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS
i see a bunch of responses from people from other countries asking how could we possibly re-elect bush after what he has done. i want to ask a serius question, what is the worst thing he has done, and keep some things in mind.


1) Americans love war

this may be hard to see from a european point of veiw, but americans rarley see a war it doesn't like, things have to be going, really, really, really, bad just to not help a president. the iraqi war hurt bush but only a little. americans dislike some of the things that are happening in iraq, but americans still love killing people.



2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country


by western standards that is. the majority of americans consider themselves christian. and there is a high portion of extremly religous zealots here. this has ALWAYS been the case. it is nothing new. what IS new is that the religous seem to be bolting the democratic party for the rebublican party at a very fast rate. it all started with reagan when he began to moralize politics. i spoke with my aunt who said she liked kerry better, but she couldn't vote for someone who was pro-abortion so she had no choice. The south used to be almost 100% democratic. but it is also the most religous part of the country. starting in the 60s the democrats increasingly began to move away from religon, with many canidates having a distain for religon's high roll in southern/midwest politics. it is the democrats own fault for abandoning the religous speak as soley for republicans that they have lost the south.



3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

patriotism is taught in schools. the "founding fathers" are all but dietys here. i personally do not know anyone who doubts that ameria is the best country in the world. it is a fact. unquestioned. to even question this "fact" in america is to discredit yourself. this goes back to point #1 as well. bush didnt take any hit from "going it alone" americans generally do not like the french, germans, and certainly not the russians. so believe it or not. excepet for democrat hard liners and the liberal left, no one is really worried about rather they like us or not. in fact, i would venture to say that kerry's plan of increased alliances is one of the reasons americans didnt trust him to run the war on terror. because americans dont trust the rest of the world. and alliances in general.



so given these 3 points, why is it hard at all to believe?

You may define America that way, but not all of us share your view...oh, somewhere around 49% of us to be exact.

 

[AcidicFury]

Originally posted by: HOWITIS

3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

patriotism is taught in schools. the "founding fathers" are all but dietys here. i personally do not know anyone who doubts that ameria is the best country in the world. it is a fact. unquestioned. to even question this "fact" in america is to discredit yourself. this goes back to point #1 as well. bush didnt take any hit from "going it alone" americans generally do not like the french, germans, and certainly not the russians. so believe it or not. excepet for democrat hard liners and the liberal left, no one is really worried about rather they like us or not. in fact, i would venture to say that kerry's plan of increased alliances is one of the reasons americans didnt trust him to run the war on terror. because americans dont trust the rest of the world. and alliances in general.

Are you kidding me? There are plenty more patriotic countries in the world than the USA. Russia for one. If you ever insult a Russian on his country, he'll rip your arms off in two seconds, then sell them on the black market. People in the USA have almost no patriotism compared to many countries in the world.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: HOWITIS


1) Americans love war

2) america is an extremly religous and conservative country

3) America is the most patriotic state in the world

1) Americans didn't always love war. After WWII, we learned that isolationism doesn't work. Americans will no longer sit idly by while the world suffers. Now, we can't fight every battle, but that does not invalidate the ones we do.

2) Americans aren't any more religious than europeans. The only difference is that our higher power isn't government.

3) This is a tough one. While it's up there, I would also say the US is one of the most nationalistic nation.

I think europeans don't get it because they formed the EU in part to contain the US. Once upon a time, americans viewed most europeans as allies. It has become clear that they are out for their own interests, almost all of the time. Once realization set in that France, Germany and Russia are NOT our allies (but also not enemies), the american opinion of dealings with the EU/UN/etc. changed.

Just wanted to point out the ideological flaw in the first point.

While I agree that this is the reason why Americans refuse to be isolationists the ideology behind it is retarded to say the least.

They go from one extreme of isolationism where they refuse to do virtually anything to the other extreme of trying to police the world and influence those they don't agree with.

It seems that the logic used by most right wing Americans must be as extreme as it possibly can because the only other logical opposite to them is the extreme left.

It's absolutely stupendous yet I read it every day in this forum and it's a lot stronger now that Bush won, as if it validates their flawed ideology.

Hard to shock me these days by whatever any right wing American says.