Why don't consoles offer mouse input?

[Nebbers]

Seriously.

Now, I'm aware that keyboard+mouse input does exist for some consoles. The functionality of these instances is rather low, though. Yeah, back in the SNES days there was a mouse that you could use for Mario Paint. It is my understanding that there are even some third party adapters for the XBOX/PS3 to allow you to use PS/2 and USB devices, but they seem pretty terrible from what I've read, and they're still limited to the input parameters of a controller since it's basically emulating the mouse input, so you can't actually get past that speed/precision barrier. At least this is my understanding of these devices.

Keyboard (or keyboard-based gaming pad) + Mouse is hands-down the best possible input method we have available for any type of FPS (and many other games), yet console manufacturers still force us to play them with a controller.

Why do they do this? Is it because of the fear that it would give an unfair advantage to the mouse people v.s. the standard controller people? (It most certainly would.)

I haven't purchased a console since the Gamecube for this very reason. All the games I play on consoles, I play at a friend's place anyway. Friends keep asking me why I won't buy a 360 and play Call of Duty with them but they can't understand that coming from a background of playing Quake on the PC for a decade, using a controller for anything similar is endlessly frustrating. It feels like trying to text on my phone while wearing mittens.

If Microsoft released something that would allow true, fully functional mouse input I'd go buy an Xbox right now. And I'm not the only one that feels this way.

 

[blurredvision]

Seriously?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2141774

 

[gorcorps]

You haven't purchased a console since the gamecube you say? Oh gee... so you skipped one generation of consoles huh, a generation that's still current. Whoopdee doo

 

[mchammer187]

Because all things equal KB + mouse is superior to a controller

so they don't want to force you to get a KB + mouse just to be competitive otherwise it will alienate a huge part of their player base

It will cost them far more sales to add KB and mouse support than it would ever add and that is the primary reason

I don't really get why people complain about it because a controller is a perfectly fine and I certainly don't want to have to use a KB and mouse if I want to play CoD on a console.

I have played FPS on the PC since UT but it is not hard to adapt to a controller takes about a couple months

 

[Nebbers]

Sorry, I'll direct any thoughts on the subject to that thread.

You haven't purchased a console since the gamecube you say? Oh gee... so you skipped one generation of consoles huh, a generation that's still current. Whoopdee doo

Wasn't bragging about anything buddy... settle down.

 

[Ackmed]

I don't really get why people complain about it because a controller is a perfectly fine.

Because all things equal KB + mouse is superior to a controller.

Hmmm. I'd say that is why.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Play PC games if you want KB+Mouse

 

[tdawg]

At this point shouldn't these threads be automatically banned/locked? This ground has been covered ad nauseam; why do we have to keep rehashing this topic?

To echo those before me, if you want to play an FPS with a keyboard and mouse, just buy the PC version and be happy. Otherwise, take a week and get used to playing with a controller from the comfort of your couch.

 

[uli2000]

Alot of it is developer support. Unreal Tournament 3 on the PS3 had KB/Mouse support, the only console game AFAIK that had native mouse/kb support. There are some controlers that use a mouse/nunchuk style layout (http://www.splitfish.com/, fragfx), but I have never played with one.

 

[VinylxScratches]

Stick to PeeCee.

1% of the pop that plays consoles would use it. It's a waste of time and money.

 

[Ackmed]

Really, thats nice of you to make up a percentage like that.

Obviously there is a market for it, with companies like splitfish and this putting out products; http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/01/xim3-final-hardware-revealed-coming-soon-to-give-an-unfair-adva/ Several professional console gamers use a fragfx. If it didnt work, they wouldnt do it.

Guess you dont have a clue, 1% could not support these products for the years they have been out. And it doesnt matter if 1% want a kb+mouse, they're customers. It is also not hard at all to add it, one day they will. They need to hurry up, stop being lazy, and stubborn.

 

[zerocool84]

Really, thats nice of you to make up a percentage like that.

Obviously there is a market for it, with companies like splitfish and this putting out products; http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/01/xim3-final-hardware-revealed-coming-soon-to-give-an-unfair-adva/ Several professional console gamers use a fragfx. If it didnt work, they wouldnt do it.

Guess you dont have a clue, 1% could not support these products for the years they have been out. And it doesnt matter if 1% want a kb+mouse, they're customers. It is also not hard at all to add it, one day they will. They need to hurry up, stop being lazy, and stubborn.

It`s not about laziness, it`s all that work for little to no return. Hardly any console gamers care so they don't do it. The people that really want it will buy those products. It`s not even that hard to get good with a controller anyways.

 

[Nebbers]

At this point shouldn't these threads be automatically banned/locked? This ground has been covered ad nauseam; why do we have to keep rehashing this topic?

To echo those before me, if you want to play an FPS with a keyboard and mouse, just buy the PC version and be happy. Otherwise, take a week and get used to playing with a controller from the comfort of your couch.

As you contribute to a thread that was redirected to a similar, recent thread in the very first reply.

I know, I'm not one to talk since I started this thread with the other one visible on the first page of the forum.

Although I must say, your response is pretty shallow in terms of this argument for someone calling for instant locking of these threads...

A mouse is hands-down a better input device for this type of game, with a far higher skill cap/ceiling than any currently used console controller.

If I put in as much time practicing FPS with a 360 controller as I did practicing with a mouse and keyboard, my skill will only marginally improve from the point it's at now. It takes years of practice to get anywhere near the top of the ladder in competitive FPS games using a mouse.

Zerocool84 and numerous others that keep saying "it's not that hard to get good with a controller anyways" or "just get better at using a controller" are completely missing the point.

It's not that mouse fans aren't good with a controller, or that they don't want to put in the time to get used to one, or anything along those lines. It's that current controllers are inherently inferior as an input device for FPS games. Mice are basically limited only by how well you can move your hand. Controller analog sticks are limited by time, automatically, because you have to wait for the crosshair/whatever to move to the point you want it at and then stop moving the analog stick, and there's a limit on how fast that can move. Additionally, the faster you set your sensitivity to with an analog stick, the worse your precision is -- not so with a mouse, because the range of speeds you can move the mouse at is vastly wider than an analog stick.

Probably should have posted this in the other thread, but I blame the guy who bumped my thread that I stated I'd let die.

 

[American Gunner]

Like most people have said, if you want a mouse, play the PC. No sense in complaining about not being able to use one on consoles, since controllers are the standard there.

 

[Nebbers]

Very innovative thinking there... No sense talking about a mouse on consoles because... they don't have mice on consoles.

Not sure why there's this defensive attitude present. It's just a topic of discussion. Seems sort of silly to be all "Just play on a PC if you want a mouse" because "controllers are standard" on consoles. That's not really an argument or point and really doesn't contribute anything to the topic.

The people in the other thread that pointed out that people like me are a small percentage of all console gamers and that it's not appealing in a business sense, and those who mentioned that it would create a skill divide and basically require everyone to switch over to be competitive... those people make great points. They didn't just say to not complain and not actually address any of the points made (not really complaining, btw, just making the statement that it's one major factor keeping me from getting into consoles.)

 

[American Gunner]

Other people have already told you reasons, but you keep asking. If you are holding out, goos for you, but console sales are doing great so I doubt the manufacturers of the consoles see the need to implament it.

 

[RedRooster]

Splitting the control options would ruin XBox Live, simple as that.
Then Microsoft would stop making consoles, there'd only be one option on the market for online gaming, which by then would be ravaged by hackers.
No one would make games for PC anymore, because their moneymaker consoles would be finished, and there'd be no games for anyone.
Is that what you want? Really? Cuz it sounds like that's what you want.

 

[Nebbers]

Other people have already told you reasons, but you keep asking. If you are holding out, goos for you, but console sales are doing great so I doubt the manufacturers of the consoles see the need to implament it.

Yeah, some other people gave meaningful responses that addressed my post, which was cool. I can understand the reasoning behind it... hadn't really thought about a few of those things before.

You on the other hand reply by saying nothing other than "hey listen to those guys who for some reason I didn't notice you just mentioned appreciation for in the post I'm replying to!"

... and no, I don't "keep asking." I haven't asked any questions at all about consoles, controllers or mice since my original post which can be verified by reading the thread.

I now understand that it's probably not going to happen in the way that I'm envisioning it. Maybe something using the Kinect in the way of a Wii remote for motion tracking but with more accuracy and response... on a future generation console, perhaps. Point is, it's not that I'm a diehard "pc kb/m fanboy", it's just that current console controllers leave a lot to be desired, and a completely different solution than a mouse would be just fine if it gets the job done.

I think this should be the end of the conversation though because it's clearly not going anywhere else.

 

[Ackmed]

Like most people have said, if you want a mouse, play the PC. No sense in complaining about not being able to use one on consoles, since controllers are the standard there.

News flash: Not all games are out on the PC. "Complaining" can help things change. BF3 devs Dice are quoted in saying that they are doing things for the PC version of the game, because PC players are "complaining". I am betting that a lot of people would go to a mouse+kb if they tried it for the consoles, because it is better.

Maybe I dont like auto aim, or variants of it. I guess you do.

 

[dougp]

News flash: Not all games are out on the PC. "Complaining" can help things change. BF3 devs Dice are quoted in saying that they are doing things for the PC version of the game, because PC players are "complaining". I am betting that a lot of people would go to a mouse+kb if they tried it for the consoles, because it is better.

Maybe I dont like auto aim, or variants of it. I guess you do.

Mouse support isn't going to happen on a console - it's not a viable business method. Auto-aim has been on consoles far longer than a lot of people on the current generation of consoles have been gaming.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

And as I stated in the other thread, it is a simple profit-motivated reason primarily. Why would they let you use your mouse when they can charge you $50+ a pop for the extra controllers you will eventually want?

 

[dougp]

And as I stated in the other thread, it is a simple profit-motivated reason primarily. Why would they let you use your mouse when they can charge you $50+ a pop for the extra controllers you will eventually want?

It's not that simple, as many people have argued against you. Try using the mouse/keyboard version of Unreal and see how it plays - I've never heard a good thing about it.

 

[BD2003]

And as I stated in the other thread, it is a simple profit-motivated reason primarily. Why would they let you use your mouse when they can charge you $50+ a pop for the extra controllers you will eventually want?

If profit were the motive, they'd just make an official mouse and charge $50 for it.

 

[Malak]

And as I stated in the other thread, it is a simple profit-motivated reason primarily. Why would they let you use your mouse when they can charge you $50+ a pop for the extra controllers you will eventually want?

It isn't that at all. It has never been that. The PS3 natively supports a mouse and keyboard already, which blows your theory entirely out of the water. It is entirely dependent on the game developers, not the console manufacturer. The game developers don't want to do it because everyone knows the advantage the mouse has over a gamepad in shooters.

 

[Qbah]

If profit were the motive, they'd just make an official mouse and charge $50 for it.

If it was only that simple. They need to design the devices, create them, test them, make sure they work and meet certain standards, then start advertising - this costs a LOT of money. If only a very limited amount of people would buy that (and this is also what I think), they wouldn't even get a return on the costs of putting the product on the market, let alone start making profits...