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Why don't Americans care more for the environment?
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Some do. Sometimes I really think I care more for a 700 year old tree than I do for (some) so-called human beings.
It's a good question really, and I can't really answer it without putting down the people that don't care about the environment.
It would be interesting to know exactly why they don't from a psychological point of view.
In my eyes, it is brain-dead not to. We must take care of our home.... It provides everything for us. Destroying it is killing ourselves slowly. We are the only unbalanced element on the planet. Everything else is self regulating and in many cases symbiotic.
I suppose in the long run, we will self-regulate ourselves too.. what an ignorant path, though.
It's a good question really, and I can't really answer it without putting down the people that don't care about the environment.
It would be interesting to know exactly why they don't from a psychological point of view.
In my eyes, it is brain-dead not to. We must take care of our home.... It provides everything for us. Destroying it is killing ourselves slowly. We are the only unbalanced element on the planet. Everything else is self regulating and in many cases symbiotic.
I suppose in the long run, we will self-regulate ourselves too.. what an ignorant path, though.
Typical. It seems many from the technological revolution believe that "technology will save us". I sure do hope you're right.
The problem with this hypothesis is that we have not existed as a tightly knit, let alone technologically advanced society for very long.
50 years is insignificant in the scheme of time. Even 250, 500 or 1000 years. Yet that is many generations for us homosapiens. Our society hasn't been around long enough to have an accurate picture of the world, let alone our puny, insignificant lifetimes.
The world's population has grown from 1 billion to 6.5 billion in 200 years. That is virtual insanity, compared to the previous 12,000 years.
It took 11,600 years just to get to 500 million! We had these huge dieoffs...
It will happen again. Even if it's another 1,000 years away, we WILL reach a point where the Earth simply can't support the population.
Maybe that makes us lucky our lifespans are infintesmal in the scheme of time.
IGBT
Lifer
The Kyoto agreement, which is supposed to "safeguard" the planet from excessive emissions of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is a fraud.
Here's why:
(Human made) CO2 is said to contribute significantly to global warming. Global warming can cause melting of polar caps, and worldwide floodings as a result.
According to the WEC, 1998, the effect of the Kyoto agreement over the next 40 years, will be a reduce in temperature rise from global warming by LESS than 0,1 °C. Up to 2100 (within a century), Kyoto may have reduced the global warming by 0,2°C.
Ergo: Kyotos effects are insignificant.
But here comes part 2 - the economic consequences:
All of the industrialised countries will lose a significant part of their GNP, if an attempt to limit CO2 emissions are made:
According to OECD, 1994:
Japan: -2% within 2010, -3% within 2050
USA: -1% within 2050
EU: -2% within 2050
In actual currency (1997-rate US$), this will translate to:
USA: 2050: 300 billion
Japan: 2050: 350 billion
EU: 2050: 200 billion
***
Summarised:
Kyoto makes no difference.
Its economic effects are hardly catastrophic, but the money wasted on Co2 follies can be used better elsewhere - say Carbon reservior research and welfare.
Text
I was simply referring to the fact that USA is the number one emitter of Greenhouse gasses. You emit a whopping 25% of the entire worlds emission. Afaik, you are the worlds biggest polluter.
And wtf is that IGBT...
The effect is not insignificant... Do some current research on Co2 emission and find out otherwise. And afaik it was ment to be a beginning. What's the world worth if we can't bloody live in it
And yes, i am from denmark 😛 I have no american relationship, except for the fact that one of my great-great-fathers was the first one to sail from sweden to the us...
lol, try this on for size.
"If Kyoto is not adopted, the worldwide temperature rise will be .2 deg...which will cause the melting of 100,000,000 gallons of water currently locked in polar ice caps. So that's a significant amount of water. The cost of adopting Kyoto is only 1%, ergo: economic effects are insignificant".
Obviously I made up that figure, but the point stands: Small percentages times big numbers equals big numbers...don't try to spin those results by reporting the percentage WITH the number on one and the percentage WITHOUT the number on the other. And don't misuse the terms "significant" or "insignificant" unless you can back up WHY.
A few degrees on a global scale is a LOT of extra heat. Just because we don't notice much when the temperature changes slightly doesn't mean it won't affect the global climate and agricultural productivity.
A) This belongs in P&N
B) I'm an American, and I have to say your topic is dead-on. I club baby seals at every chance I get, and I'm saving up all my used motor oil so that I can dump it in the Pacific next week.
C) America stayed out of the Kyoto treaty because it screwed us and favored other countries. It basically became a way to get America to pay 3rd world countries a lot of money for being under-developed. WTF? Everyone hates us for doing that, don't they?
:beer::thumbsup:
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
The biggest problem with the "Kyoto treaty" is that it exempts most of the world, including two countries that make up 40% of the world's population. As far as a social standpoint, we've become tired of having it shoved down our throats and having it forced on us. They determined that alkaline batteries are hazardous waste, and can't be thrown out. But then there was now NO way to dispose of them properly. So people stockpiled dead batteries for a while before saying "screw it!". Environmentalists demanded MTBE be put into the gasoline, followed by demanding it REMOVED a few years later when it was found in the water. There are some states struggling because most of thier state is a state park. It's hard to use resources when they're tied.
There's just been too many knee jerk bills passed, and people are tired of it.
And don't get me started on the people that leave thier wooden homes, get into thier gas burning cars, show up at a park with thier paper and wood signs to protest logging. There is more trees now than there was 100 years ago, the logging companies have done more to revitalize burned areas than all the other ecofreak groups combined. Although the CDF (California Dept. of Forestry) plants alot of trees around my area, the logging companies do far more. I haven't seen anyone from greenpeace ever come out for a week and plant 500 acres worth of trees.
There's just been too many knee jerk bills passed, and people are tired of it.
And don't get me started on the people that leave thier wooden homes, get into thier gas burning cars, show up at a park with thier paper and wood signs to protest logging. There is more trees now than there was 100 years ago, the logging companies have done more to revitalize burned areas than all the other ecofreak groups combined. Although the CDF (California Dept. of Forestry) plants alot of trees around my area, the logging companies do far more. I haven't seen anyone from greenpeace ever come out for a week and plant 500 acres worth of trees.
Don't generalize.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
...by the way, how many of these eco freaks have considered that global warming and the SUN BURNING HOTTER might be somehow linked? Are we causing the global warming on other planets too? And who said the earth has a stable climate? Last I checked there is evidence of glaciation just about 100 miles from Sacramento, does that mean that humans caused that to melt? Should ice still be there? What happened to the "coming of the new ice age" a few decades ago?
PricklyPete
Lifer
My honest opinion is that we do not see the affects of the misusing the environment. People in Russia don't care about the environment either.
The people who tend to care the most about the environment is where abusing the environment has affected them the most. This is why you will see people in Japan or Europe being very environmentally friendly...but people in the Ukraine or the Sudan caring less about it. You'll also notice people in the small new england states with much longer histories being more environmentally conscious than people in Texas or Nevada.
The people who tend to care the most about the environment is where abusing the environment has affected them the most. This is why you will see people in Japan or Europe being very environmentally friendly...but people in the Ukraine or the Sudan caring less about it. You'll also notice people in the small new england states with much longer histories being more environmentally conscious than people in Texas or Nevada.
Who fscking cares about global warming and whether we're causing it or not? We don't have an accurate picture of our climate to be able to tell.. we need another few thousand years.
There are more pressing problems, like how we're going to support a population of 8+billion by 2050.
There are more pressing problems, like how we're going to support a population of 8+billion by 2050.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
That's largely due to the density.
For example, we burn some branches from a tree that falls down. This doesn't majorly affect the environment, CO2 is created, the trees will just suck it up and enjoy it. Now if everyone in LA did that. There would be major issues. (aside from where the hell they got that many) In LA, there isn't as much vegitation to suck it up, so it just hangs around.
Remember, greenhouses use "CO2 generators" to help growth. They're just propane burners. They've found that plants LIKE the 4x thicker CO2 ratio.
I'm seriously not sold on global warming. We haven't been logging weather long enough to get a good grasp on what's out of whack and what isn't.
What *I can* say is undeniably terrible is smog and pollution. I never had a good understanding of what smog and pollution really was until I moved from the rural midwest to Phoenix, AZ. Most days of the week there is a digusting brown cloud that just lingers over the entire valley here. It gets so bad that sometimes I have troubles seeing A FREAKING MOUNTAIN on the other side of the street from where I live.
Whenever I come back down here from being in Iowa for a while, the first few days my eyes burn and my sinuses go apesh!t because of all the crap floating in the air. I cough up chunks of brown stuff in the mornings when I wake. NOBODY in their right mind can tell me that is healthy and not something to be afraid of.
It's stuff like that we need to work on. Don't use global warming as a scape goat. Use what's right in front of you.....the fact that you have 5 miles of visibility instead of 20 because of a brown cloud of sh!t floating above your head is pretty obvious.
Car pool. Telecommute. Take public transit. Walk. Bike. Pick up a low emmisions vehicle for commuting. Whatever you need to do.
What *I can* say is undeniably terrible is smog and pollution. I never had a good understanding of what smog and pollution really was until I moved from the rural midwest to Phoenix, AZ. Most days of the week there is a digusting brown cloud that just lingers over the entire valley here. It gets so bad that sometimes I have troubles seeing A FREAKING MOUNTAIN on the other side of the street from where I live.
Whenever I come back down here from being in Iowa for a while, the first few days my eyes burn and my sinuses go apesh!t because of all the crap floating in the air. I cough up chunks of brown stuff in the mornings when I wake. NOBODY in their right mind can tell me that is healthy and not something to be afraid of.
It's stuff like that we need to work on. Don't use global warming as a scape goat. Use what's right in front of you.....the fact that you have 5 miles of visibility instead of 20 because of a brown cloud of sh!t floating above your head is pretty obvious.
Car pool. Telecommute. Take public transit. Walk. Bike. Pick up a low emmisions vehicle for commuting. Whatever you need to do.
SagaLore
Elite Member
Find out what the Kyoto treaty is all about. It's a scam.
There are more trees in the U.S. now than there were a 100 years ago. There is a difference between respecting the environment and using the environment as a commodity. The Kyoto treaty is not in the best interest of the environment.
SagaLore
Elite Member
Global COOLING
Average cooling was a trend noticed 30 years ago.
Also studies have shown that trees near cities actually thrive on the higher than normal carbon-dioxide outputs. Also there has never been a previous observation that the poles has ozone over them. Scientists are beginning to think now that the ozone hole is a natural phenomenon.
Too much speculation and fantasizing in the last 50 years has really lead people in a wrong direction. I'm more worried about the environment at the micro level - is the drinking water clean? Are the vegetables grown organically? We can't do much to put a dent into Mother Earth, she's very big and self healing. It's our culture I'm more worried about.
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