Why doesn't the media ever tell us how far Iran has gotten in enriching Uranium?

[soccerballtux]

If they're at 70% then that makes a huge difference in who America would elect President. 30% after all these years, not so much.

I find this particularly interesting if you take into account that the media companies (excluding fox) employ ~90% liberally minded people. On the other hand, I can't imagine they're so retarded that they would rather elect a military pushover (Obama) when the cost would be millions of American lives, literally.

 

[OrByte]

Aren't schools teaching logic and reasoning these days??!

There is so much going wrong with this argument, it's premise, and it's conclusion in this OP

 

[RightIsWrong]

And just where do you get the conclusive evidence of where they are at? The US Intelligence agencies? Will the intel on Iran be a "slam dunk" also?

They don't have the information to be able to tell us. They would be speculating and after being burned by the Bush admin re: Iraqi intel...they are wisely not getting their tail feathers all flustered. Except for FNC of course. They haven't let a day go by without telling us about the grave and imminent danger we are in from Iran.

 

[Butterbean]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If they're at 70% then that makes a huge difference in who America would elect President. 30% after all these years, not so much.

I find this particularly interesting if you take into account that the media companies (excluding fox) employ ~90% liberally minded people. On the other hand, I can't imagine they're so retarded that they would rather elect a military pushover (Obama) when the cost would be millions of American lives, literally.

The US media have alkso stopped reporting success in Iraq. When the UK media is more positive than US media you know somthing is wrong

"American and Iraqi forces are driving Al-Qaeda in Iraq out of its last redoubt in the north of the country in the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.

After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda?s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant ?last stand? in the northern city of Mosul. '

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...raq/article4276486.ece

We have a MSM totally compromised and radically anti American. It betrays troops whenever it can. Its even more biased now because they are totally in the bag for BO and dont even try to hide it.

 

[Lemon law]

If you look and I have, the media is telling us exactly where Iran is in Uranium enrichment. And right now they are concentrating on refining low enrichment fuel for nuclear reactors.

The problem is, that is a politically incorrect answer for GWB&co and Israel who demand an immediate threat to justify preemptive action.

The fact of the matter is, Iran at present rates of progress will not have either enough enriched U235 necessary to make a one nuclear weapon or be able to extract enough Plutonium from spent fuel rods until 2014 or longer. And then and only then will that fork in the road come, to stick to only peaceful nuclear power generation or to have both nuclear power generation and nuclear weapons.

The somewhat logical fallacy is that US policy will have zero effect on the latter decision. Because in terms of having enough nuclear weapons to be a serious threat to Israel by even equalizing what Israel has now, we are talking 2025 or longer. But if the US foreign policy continues to be 100% Iran hostile and for no discernible reason, yes, Iran will probably opt for nuclear weapons. If the US gets a logical Iranian foreign policy, Iran will have no need for nuclear weapons.

But in terms of nuclear proliferation, at least 40 countries now want to develop their own nuclear programs and are petitioning the IAEA for that basic UN charter right to proceed.

 

[Moonbeam]

The traumatized need to keep themselves in a constant state of agitation and whipped up fear because in a state of calm and meditation the memories they repress can thus more easily explode into consciousness. The traumatized are always busy with war and rumors of war, always have an ear to the ground for trouble, are always in a state of, 'oh no!'.

The traumatized are the seed stock of mass psychosis.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
If you look and I have, the media is telling us exactly where Iran is in Uranium enrichment. And right now they are concentrating on refining low enrichment fuel for nuclear reactors.

The problem is, that is a politically incorrect answer for GWB&co and Israel who demand an immediate threat to justify preemptive action.

The fact of the matter is, Iran at present rates of progress will not have either enough enriched U235 necessary to make a one nuclear weapon or be able to extract enough Plutonium from spent fuel rods until 2014 or longer. And then and only then will that fork in the road come, to stick to only peaceful nuclear power generation or to have both nuclear power generation and nuclear weapons.

The somewhat logical fallacy is that US policy will have zero effect on the latter decision. Because in terms of having enough nuclear weapons to be a serious threat to Israel by even equalizing what Israel has now, we are talking 2025 or longer. But if the US foreign policy continues to be 100% Iran hostile and for no discernible reason, yes, Iran will probably opt for nuclear weapons. If the US gets a logical Iranian foreign policy, Iran will have no need for nuclear weapons.

But in terms of nuclear proliferation, at least 40 countries now want to develop their own nuclear programs and are petitioning the IAEA for that basic UN charter right to proceed.

9000 centrifuges is a good start.
Some sources say worst case 2008, more likely 2009 for a U235. I don't recall the source so I can't say if they are Right (as in not left). If they are then of course they'd have a vested interest in saying 2009, because that would move a lot of votes from Obama.

Those other 40 countries didn't care about nukes until they heard Iran is working on one. They're not afraid of Israel.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The traumatized need to keep themselves in a constant state of agitation and whipped up fear because in a state of calm and meditation the memories they repress can thus more easily explode into consciousness. The traumatized are always busy with war and rumors of war, always have an ear to the ground for trouble, are always in a state of, 'oh no!'.

The traumatized are the seed stock of mass psychosis.

Talking about the OP, or the Democrats in Congress?

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The traumatized need to keep themselves in a constant state of agitation and whipped up fear because in a state of calm and meditation the memories they repress can thus more easily explode into consciousness. The traumatized are always busy with war and rumors of war, always have an ear to the ground for trouble, are always in a state of, 'oh no!'.

The traumatized are the seed stock of mass psychosis.

so you stick your fingers in your ears and ignore what's clearly going on around you?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The traumatized need to keep themselves in a constant state of agitation and whipped up fear because in a state of calm and meditation the memories they repress can thus more easily explode into consciousness. The traumatized are always busy with war and rumors of war, always have an ear to the ground for trouble, are always in a state of, 'oh no!'.

The traumatized are the seed stock of mass psychosis.

so you stick your fingers in your ears and ignore what's clearly going on around you?

Either that or you stick you fingers in your ears and make up facts to fit your preconceived, desired outcomes despite all other information to the contrary.

 

[ProfJohn]

I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, PJ its not obvious and GWB & co and Israel are about the only ones left pushing for sanctions.

But you are a poster child for Moonbeam's traumatized, the only thing that is obvious is that GWB&co are idiots. The international community is simply moving on without GWB and as we see, the IAEA, the UN source authority is not buying any of GWB crapola.

 

[Moonbeam]

The traumatized are in a state of constant agitation and fear that other people are hiding their evil intentions in deep secrecy. They do that, of course, because they are doing just exactly that themselves, hiding their deep hatred of themselves, the consequence of repressed trauma, from themselves and projecting those motives of their own out into the world on others. In this way one group of psychopaths incite themselves, in ever spiraling delusions of paranoia, against some other group of psychopaths over there. Thus, by exporting their self hate outward into the world they bring about the destruction of themselves and others their self hate demands and deems proper and all without ever suffering the pain and ego death that memory of the trauma would bring.

Poor poor human beings. They would rather die than awaken. Ah well, better dead than knowing we are such profound fools. Like the jilted husband we kill not just the evil wife but the kids, having fucked up both those relations too.

 

[fskimospy]

You're right. Obama being elected president will cost millions of lives.

On another note, I'm glad to see the crazies are out in full force this morning.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The traumatized are in a state of constant agitation and fear that other people are hiding their evil intentions in deep secrecy. They do that, of course, because they are doing just exactly that themselves, hiding their deep hatred of themselves, the consequence of repressed trauma, from themselves and projecting those motives of their own out into the world on others. In this way one group of psychopaths incite themselves, in ever spiraling delusions of paranoia, against some other group of psychopaths over there. Thus, by exporting their self hate outward into the world they bring about the destruction of themselves and others their self hate demands and deems proper and all without ever suffering the pain and ego death that memory of the trauma would bring.

Poor poor human beings. They would rather die than awaken. Ah well, better dead than knowing we are such profound fools. Like the jilted husband we kill not just the evil wife but the kids, having fucked up both those relations too.

Talking about the OP, or the Democrats in Congress?[/quote]

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, PJ its not obvious and GWB & co and Israel are about the only ones left pushing for sanctions.

But you are a poster child for Moonbeam's traumatized, the only thing that is obvious is that GWB&co are idiots. The international community is simply moving on without GWB and as we see, the IAEA, the UN source authority is not buying any of GWB crapola.

Really??
Iranian bank challenges EU sanctions
link
EU Widens Iran Sanctions, Shuts Bank Melli's European Offices
link 2
"During meetings at Schloss Meseberg, the German government guesthouse here, Mrs. Merkel joined Mr. Bush in calling for more sanctions against Iran if it did not suspend uranium enrichment."
link
EU to issue stronger Iran sanctions
link 4!
You're just an idiot.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

Gawd, but you're a magnificent shill.

According to the IAEA, Iran isn't hiding their present activities, at all. There are some unanswered questions wrt past research- that's it. Iran has never had the materials to actually build weapons, and likely won't so long as the IAEA has a microscope up their ass, which is the present and near future scenario.

Current sanctions aren't about actual production of weapons grade U235 or any weapons program that exists outside of the fearmongering from the Bush admin and their Israeli friends. It's about regime change, with the nuclear boogeyman being an excuse, a rationalization, much like Iraqi WMD's and their supposedly "reconstituted nuclear program" which turned out to be just another lie among many...

What principles should we apply when evaluating the information offered up by those 2 sources and their allies? The one that known liars, cheats, thieves and charlatans are not to be trusted, or the pollyanna principle that even a blind squirrel finds a few acorns?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
We have a MSM totally compromised and radically anti American. It betrays troops whenever it can. Its even more biased now because they are totally in the bag for BO and dont even try to hide it.

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Have you ever heard of this TV channel called "Fox news"?

And great troll, BTW.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

Gawd, but you're a magnificent shill.

According to the IAEA, Iran isn't hiding their present activities, at all. There are some unanswered questions wrt past research- that's it. Iran has never had the materials to actually build weapons, and likely won't so long as the IAEA has a microscope up their ass, which is the present and near future scenario.

Current sanctions aren't about actual production of weapons grade U235 or any weapons program that exists outside of the fearmongering from the Bush admin and their Israeli friends. It's about regime change, with the nuclear boogeyman being an excuse, a rationalization, much like Iraqi WMD's and their supposedly "reconstituted nuclear program" which turned out to be just another lie among many...

What principles should we apply when evaluating the information offered up by those 2 sources and their allies? The one that known liars, cheats, thieves and charlatans are not to be trusted, or the pollyanna principle that even a blind squirrel finds a few acorns?

The unanswered questions are?
link

The IAEA has also recently reported that it has questions that Iran refuses to answer:

Why is Iran using high explosives to implode a hemispherical shell of heavy metal? The only known use for such tests is to perfect a lightweight nuclear bomb.

Why is Iran developing the kinds of detonators needed in an atomic weapon?

Why is Iran designing, or redesigning, a ballistic missile warhead so that it can contain a nuclear weapon?

and

The size of its centrifuge program increases suspicion that Iran is not interested in producing enriched uranium to fuel nuclear power plants. The program is too small - even with the planned 50,000 improved centrifuges - to provide fuel for a nuclear power program of any consequence. The centrifuges could barely keep up with the demands of the power reactors Iran is building with Russian help.

But the advanced centrifuges will enable the Iranians to build about twice as many nuclear weapons a year with the current infrastructure than they otherwise could have done. If they add 6,000 machines to today's 3,000, the bomb-building potential is more than doubled again, but the peaceful utility of the plant is zero.

Nope, nothing to worry about...

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, PJ its not obvious and GWB & co and Israel are about the only ones left pushing for sanctions.

But you are a poster child for Moonbeam's traumatized, the only thing that is obvious is that GWB&co are idiots. The international community is simply moving on without GWB and as we see, the IAEA, the UN source authority is not buying any of GWB crapola.

Really??
Iranian bank challenges EU sanctions
link
EU Widens Iran Sanctions, Shuts Bank Melli's European Offices
link 2
"During meetings at Schloss Meseberg, the German government guesthouse here, Mrs. Merkel joined Mr. Bush in calling for more sanctions against Iran if it did not suspend uranium enrichment."
link
EU to issue stronger Iran sanctions
link 4!
You're just an idiot.

Wow very nice; thanks for posting those!

 

[Lemon law]

PJ, its quite obvious you have never really learned to play chess or to plan a few moves ahead. Any country that develops peaceful nuclear electrical generation capacity will then have the potential to go on and develop nuclear weapons. But if your nation has one and only one nuclear reactors, and that is held captive by the Russians when they control the supply of reactor fuel, one does not really have any real peaceful nuclear energy generating capacity. Hence the need for large numbers of centrifuges to fuel large numbers of nuclear reactors to put Iran in control of their own fate.

The last time Iran decided to rely on the peaceful intentions of its neighbors, Ronald Reagan got Saddam to attack Iran and they got really burned. As they begged the world for the arms to defend themselves and got little help. If nothing else, Iran learned that lesson, and they now have their own armaments industry.

At the same time, Iran is hardly a politically undivided country, nor are we. Some in Iran want to develop nuclear weapons and others don't. Yes some in Iran are engaged in nuclear weapons research and the IAEA is correct in asking questions. That does not mean Iran is definitely decided on nuclear weapons anymore than its decided in the USA
that a need to attack Iran exists. Both sides are undecided and both are keeping all options open.

But if you think the Iran is going to use its Uranium enrichment centrifuges to jump start its nuclear weapons programs, then your ignorance of nuclear weapons development
is apparent. Diverting all Uranium enrichment to the production of large numbers of critical masses of U235, is the slow boat way to become a nuclear weapons power.

The fast way is to extract plutonium from the spent fuel rods of a large number of nuclear reactors that Iran has yet to build. Figure two years to build them and another two years of operation to breed enough plutonium. Another year to refine out the plutonium and we are talking 2013-14 before the first makings of any nuclear weapons critical masses even come into Iranian hands. And then and only then can any go no go decisions be made for nuclear weapons for Iran. Meanwhile Iran can start generating significant electricity by 2010 or so and can use those extra centrifuges to sell low grade enriched nuclear reactor fuel to other nations.

But your reasoning is exactly as phony as GWB's build up to war in Iraq. They MIGHT have WMD.

Well I have a big pile of kitchen knives in my house, I might go berserk tomorrow and use them on my neighbors, but in the grand scheme of things, I am probably not going to go and do something that stupid. Well, either is Iran.

And it really pains me to say it, but I would not trust GWB&co with anything more dangerous than a squirt gun. GWB is a dangerous international idiot and a clear threat to every man woman and child on the planet. As for Ahmadinejad, he is a basically powerless motormouth, and he too will fall into the scrap bin of history come 8/2009.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nope, nothing to worry about...

Yup, nothing to worry about. Unless you are insane and think Iran would use a nuclear weapon preemptively against another nation with nuclear weapons. Then, I guess, there is something to worry about.

Iran has a very good reason to build a nuclear weapon. They are almost surrounded by American troops.

 

[bobcpg]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I expect that if Iran ever sets of a test nukes all the liberals will be running around complaining about why no one ever warned them it was going to happen.

The fact that Iran is working on a nuke is obvious, if they weren't then they wouldn't be going so much trouble to hide their activities. Especially when the cost for hiding things is sanctions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, PJ its not obvious and GWB & co and Israel are about the only ones left pushing for sanctions.

But you are a poster child for Moonbeam's traumatized, the only thing that is obvious is that GWB&co are idiots. The international community is simply moving on without GWB and as we see, the IAEA, the UN source authority is not buying any of GWB crapola.

Typical Liberal response, do not counter any of his points, just say that GWB is an idiot and call it a day. How do you respond to Iran not letting the inspector in to take a look?

 

[bobcpg]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But if you think the Iran is going to use its Uranium enrichment centrifuges to jump start its nuclear weapons programs, then your ignorance of nuclear weapons development
is apparent. Diverting all Uranium enrichment to the production of large numbers of critical masses of U235, is the slow boat way to become a nuclear weapons power.

Do they need to become a power or just build one bomb. One bomb is all it takes to wipe out a city of millions. Perhaps New York?

 

[Socio]

For what good it will do;

G8 demand Iran suspend uranium enrichment

Leaders of the Group of Eight powers called Tuesday on Iran to immediately suspend uranium enrichment and urged it to respond positively to international mediation.

G8 leaders at a summit in Japan urged Iran to fully comply with UN Security Council resolutions "in particular to suspend all enrichment-related activities."

The leaders backed a six-nation mediation effort to "resolve the issue innovatively through negotiation and urge Iran to respond positively to their offer," it said.

Also the Netherlands have taken steps that everyone should;

New law bans Iranians from studying nuclear technology in the Netherlands

The Dutch government has passed a new law under which Iranians will be banned from access to courses and facilities related to nuclear technology in the Netherlands.

According to a report in the Nature News, under the new law, passed on July 4, Iranians, including those holding dual citizenship in the Netherlands, will be unable to enroll in graduate-level courses involving nuclear and rocket technologies.

Iranian nationals will also be banned from five nuclear facilities, including those of the Urenco Group, a European company that operates uranium-enrichment plants.