Why doesn't Ford put T-tops on mustangs?

[beer]

Well with the Camaro getting killed off, why doesn't ford put T-tops in mustangs? They are really, really nice in the late spring and early fall, to feel the wind in your hair as you go down an expressway...

I hate Mustangs. With a passion. Far too commmon, I wanted a Camaro partially because they aren't as common and they are more powerful, but with no more Camaros I don't want to get a damn Mustang.

And there's no way I would buy a used Z28, everyone I know that has one just kills the clutch, any discout you would get by buying a used one would be offset by clutch repairs shortly after purchase, as it always happens.

 

[Ronstang]

Ford doesn't put T-tops on any car because they suck. They eventually leak like crazy and the structural rigidity and safety given up is not acceptable.

 

[Valhalla1]

elemental... okay, where do I start.

T-tops OWN. They are the BEST thing. I got my firebird without t-tops and I regret it every single warm day I spend in that car. and they dont leak as long as you dont treat them like crap. my friend brandon has a 1996 Camaro SS with t-tops that he's had since 97 and they dont leak at all. and they don't change the structural rigidness at all either.

there are several guys on camaroz28.com who converted their non-ttop cars to t-top cars. they are the exact same, under the top of the roof (t-top cars and non-top cars).


I have no idea why ford doesnt put them on, except it would look like they were "copying" chevy. they are a wonderful thing.. the joys of a convertible without the hassles of the top, plus it doesnt look like crap when the top us up like convertibles do in my opinion.

now.. I faced the same dilema elemental - Chevy kills the fbody, now what? Do I give in and drive what every other friggin person does, a mustang? or look elsewhere? I'll NOT be caught dead in a japomobile, and german imports look too boring for me, not to mention the sticker shock and lackluster performance-per-dollar.

So I decided it was time to move UP, and my next car will be a Corvette coupe, with the removeable roof panel, similar to t-tops but the whole piece comes off.

 

[Valhalla1]

by the way, if you find a properly cared for used Z28, not a car some teenager beat the hell out of, but from an older gentleman who repects the incredible power of the car and drives it more tenderly, I'm sure you'd be happy

or you can come with me and join the ranks of the Corvette lovers of america

 

[Mill]

<< and they don't change the structural rigidness at all either. >>



Actually it does. Same with convertables. You are dead wrong to say it doesn't affect the structure of the car. T-tops leak, rattle and creak. My friend has had a camaro or TA since '92. All he wanted on his 2001 z28 was NO T-TOPS!!!!!!!!

 

[C'DaleRider]

Having lived with all the variations of tops out there....T-tops, true converts, targa tops, sunroofs... I've found that T-tops and sunroofs are the worst pair of solutions. Both eventually will rattle and leak and are cumbersome and fragile. Targa tops are not much better, but are usually lighter (not being made of glass) and are a slightly better solution. A true convertible will spoil you for anything else. There's nothing like driving with the top down when it's mid-winter, heater full blast, zooming down the highway.......gets some stares, but with the windows up, it really wasn't cold. In the spring/summer/fall, cannot beat the convert.

 

[MattCo]

Musangs used to have 'em. Mine were stolen 3 times out of my apartment parking lot.

-MC

 

[beer]

On the Camaro the convert is also an additional like $6000 wheras T-tops are just a couple of hundred. Oh well I guess you get what you pay for

 

[Ladies Man]

Ford doesn't do it at all

i know for sure on the 87-93 mustangs when they would were t-tops/convertible that they weren't even done by ford. Ford had outside contractors do the job.

 

[Pacfanweb]

There has never been a set of T-tops made that didn't eventually leak. T-top cars are noisier.
The cars are NOT as structurally sound as solid roofed cars. Think about it. Convertible cars are usually heavier than their solid roofed counterparts, due to all the extra bracing necessary because there is no structural integrity from the roof.
If you don't believe it, lift a convertible or a T-top car in a shop and open the door while the car is in the air. Then try to close it.....you can't, or it will be very difficult. The car is much more flexible.

That being said, T-tops are fun in the spring and fall. Just don't plan on keeping the car 10 years or you'll have trouble.

 

[Soybomb]

<< and they don't change the structural rigidness at all either. >>



Okay you may like your car and thats cool, but it isn't a supercar that doesn't obey the laws of physics either. Indeed it does weaken it. Perhaps not as much as a convertible top would, but still weakened. I know lots of people who have ttops eventually put on strut tower braces and the like to stiffen the chassis.

I think ttops are usually fine for the first 5-10 years but after that you're going to need to replace the seals no matter how well you've kept them up most likely. In my 88 car I recently needed to replace the sunroof gasket and I know many people who have the same vintage car are looking desperately for ttop seals.

 

[Dee67]

I think part of the problem with putting t-tops in a powerful car is body flex under hard acceleration.. This of course would cause the t-tops to leak over time.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

simply because, my friend, T-tops suck ass.

 

[Soybomb]

<< I think part of the problem with putting t-tops in a powerful car is body flex under hard acceleration.. >>


I thought we were talking about mustangs here!

I'm not sure if its as much the body twisting during acceleration as the flex of cornering. I know many fwd cars with leaky ttops and I think cornering flex would play a more important role there. Either way though I think the majority of the leaking is just the rubber getting UV exposure and degrading.

 

[bozack]

Soybomb is wrong,

it is the amount of low end torque under hard acceleration that is what eventually twists un- re-enforced frames out of line in camaros and body modified mustangs.

Body flex occurs mostly in f-body camaros with t-tops and modified convertables (there were no factory f-body converts they were all outsourced) because the unibody frame was not rigid enough to withstand the torque of the engine (one reason it is difficult to find a 350 T-top iroc and almost impossible to find one in convertable)

Even cars such as the regal T-type and Monte SS modified for t-tops was effected by this despite their larger size and mass.

Both ford and the aftermarket companies that made chevys convertables strengthened their convertable models frames slightly, but most in the know will argue it was not nearly enough.

Those that were conscious about their cars longevity and performance took the extra measure to have a set of aftermarket sub frame connectors welded onto their cars, they are available in bolt on models but these eventually come loose and are not nearly as rigid as if they had been welded in.

I had a set put on not two weeks after I bought my mustang, they were relatively cheap, 80 for the connectors (just two flat steel bars with cross braces on them) and another 80 to have them welded in, made a huge difference in the way the car felt and drove.

In a way he was right though in saying you will notice the flex in cornering but not so much that it will ruin the frame.

In regards to mustangs, they were equipped with T-tops but it was an aftermarket option, in fact alot of the sunroofs in ford vehicles were installed by aftermarket companies also, ford for some reason liked to outsource this.

A good friend of mine had a 88 GT with T-tops and unfortunately they were not that good, they were really easy to lift off the car enough to break in, the plastic parts were weak, and their locking mechanisms did not work well. They were a dealership option, and we know this because he was able to get parts for them via the dealership.

Personally I think ford made a big mistake in 94 when they stopped making the gt without even a sunroof option, I loved the sunroof on my 90, and I like the moonroof on my SVT conrour even more now.

T-tops have the potential for greatness, with better design and if the car has a solid frame, I know I would like a nice well kept camaro ss with t-tops but my ultimate goal is a convertable saleen.

 

[Soybomb]

<< Soybomb is wrong, >>


Actually I think you misunderstood, while I'm sure the engine twisting the car in your rwd beasts isn't great from the tops, I know of plenty FWD cars that have ttops that leak. The engine in them doesn't really twist down the whole body of the car you know? They still leak. They are known to corner poorly compared to their solid top brothers. The tops still leak with no twisting along the length of the frame.....that twisting force from the engine cant be the sole source of leaks then can it?

Either way I still think that flex has little to do with them leaking.

 

[Gunbuster]

T-tops get stolen in a big way, it's grab and go money for a crook.
If you have a T-top vette keep it locked up

 

[Valhalla1]

t-top Vette? they havent made those since the 70's. the cars now have removeable roof panels, one solid piece instead of two.


and like I said, I've yet to see a well cared for set of t-tops leak. and if they do leak, you can get them repaired for cheap. its well worth the fun of having a removeable roof. convertibles? bleh.. they look like ASS when the top is up, no matter what you say. plus the sun breaks down the material of the convertible top, it has to be replaced every few years. also convertible models add BIG BUCKS to the sticker price, t-tops are a few hundred. Also be prepared to pay double your insurance for a vert model.

 

[Valhalla1]

if you guys would see, that a t-top car is not like a sun roof or moon roof. it has a single bar down the middle of the roof for structural support. the non t-top cars have the exact same thing, the roof is just a cover for that. cut off the top of the roof, and bam you have a t-top car. buy the tops from a wrecker, slap on some weather seals, and they are the same thing. thats why I'm saying they dont offer less rigidity than the solid roof model, the roof structure is the same under the &quot;skin&quot;.

also, if they are so bad for structural rigidity, then why do LS1 Camaros with t-tops run identical times than non-top models? and they still blow the doors off all stock mustangs.


one more thing.. about them getting stolen. t-tops have locking mechanisms on them, unless you get something under the top by ripping the seal and PRY it up, breaking the locking part, and likely shattering the top in the process, its not going to get stolen. unless you are a meathead and leave it unlocked, which is dumb because it will get sucked off the top of the car at high accelearations

 

[Kilgor]

The bar running down the middle has little to do body flex. When you cut out the squares for the T-Tops, you take away rigidity that comes from the body seams along the roofline. Take a piece of cardboard and bend 2 sides down and try and twist it, now do the same after cutting 2 squares out. You probably wont feel the flex as much on the drag strip as you would on a twisty road. Plus you might hear more squeaks and groans as the body flexes.

 

[Emulex]

yeah t-tops were put in certain 80's mustangs. They tended to leak and weakend rigidity.

You don't want them really.

Especially when you put a new set of heads and a S-trim blower making 14 lbs of boost. I've seen stangs frames actually bend due to all the torque.. not a pretty site.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

/me chants &quot;mustang 2! mustang 2!&quot;


/me realizes what I just said, looking around to see if anyone heard me



/me shoots myself in the head

 

[Valhalla1]

if there was a major problem with structural rigidity of t-tops, I doubt GM would have continued to put them on fbodies for the last 30 ish years.

and even with their MAYBE 1% degraded rigidness, they still whoop ass on mustangs stock for stock

 

[Soybomb]

<< f there was a major problem with structural rigidity of t-tops, >>



Damnit pay attention Its not a problem so to speak, its just the way they are. Thats like saying loud exhaust is a problem on funny cars. I really don't if you believe that they weaken the car or not, most of us know they do, so whatever makes you happy

 

[Valhalla1]

I'm sorry, but you just can't go wrong with a removeable roof panel like on Corvettes, or with t-tops on fbodies.

you have the best of both worlds, hardtop and convertible. and a convertible is going to be even more less rigid than a t-top car, so

I'll NOT make the same mistake again in getting a sports car without an open-top option. The weather is wonderful here in texas now, PERFECT for t-top driving, and I have to just look on with envy at all the beautiful open-t-top trans am's and SS and Z28 Camaros around here, and the top-off Corvettes.. if I was keeping my car, I would in a heartbeat invest in getting my car converted to t-tops, but I'll be selling it to get my Corvette, so all my spare money is going to pay off my car quickly