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Why does Nvidia sandbag their cards when revealing a new generation?

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alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,152
265
126
Very true. You also need to look at what this generation of card does that previous ones could not. From the looks of it 4k gaming is going to be truly possible with a 3080 or 3090. We are also finally seeing HDMI 2.1 with from the info we have seen on Nvidia's side will be a full bandwidth implementation (check back when it is actually tested, but some of the underlying info they have released already backs that up).

AMD has not yet shown their hand, but I suspect we will at least see some form of hdmi 2.1 (not entirely clear if it will be full bandwidth since it doesn't seem like it will be on the PS5, as Sony has not shown any kind of interest of releasing a TV with full bandwidth either). But those are a supposed custom package, so it is possible AMD has a full bandwidth part as well. If they can get something that can play 4k at 60+fps for current games at high or ultra quality settings, then we might have an actual competition this generation. I don't see them competing against the 3090 in anything other than compute, but otherwise we might have a competition if it can perform as well as a 3080 (at least until Nvidia then pops the 3080 Ti).
They say that every generation though. I mean I can already name 2 current gen games a 3090 will barely do 4K60 at max settings--Detroit Become Human and RDR2. There's a reason why next gen consoles are targeting 4K30 for flagship games.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,190
126
106
They say that every generation though. I mean I can already name 2 current gen games a 3090 will barely do 4K60 at max settings--Detroit Become Human and RDR2. There's a reason why next gen consoles are targeting 4K30 for flagship games.
Could it be that some game devs just suck at getting the most out of DX12/Vulkan or there are just really bad ports of console games to PC?
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,459
44
91
They say that every generation though. I mean I can already name 2 current gen games a 3090 will barely do 4K60 at max settings--Detroit Become Human and RDR2. There's a reason why next gen consoles are targeting 4K30 for flagship games.
It's worth trying them out at high or medium settings instead of ultra. Many ultra quality effects these days are barely noticeable but cause massive performance hits.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,405
102
106
They say that every generation though. I mean I can already name 2 current gen games a 3090 will barely do 4K60 at max settings--Detroit Become Human and RDR2. There's a reason why next gen consoles are targeting 4K30 for flagship games.
The consoles are targeting 4k30 because they have the equivalent of a 3060 or 3070 in them, not a 3080 or 3090.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,405
102
106
I still think people would still buy the 3080 if a Ti was released upfront. The 3080 would just have to cost $600, you know, like the GTX 1080 did and the 3080 Ti should be the $700 card everyone has been waiting for for nearly 4 years now. Of course, they don't do that though. That would make way too much sense and be far too consumer-friendly. Instead, they choose to limit options, charge more for less than you got before, or force you into paying $1500 for a real upgrade.
I think too many people have this concept that the new product should cost the same as the previous generation, when the new product is in a completely different performance class than the previous generation. Lets make an analogy, say Ford releases their 2020 Mustang, and it has 400 hp for $30,000. Ford then releases a 2021 Mustang that has 700 hp, for $40,000. You arn't complaining that the 2021 Mustang is $40,000 because the previous year's 2020 model was only $30,000 because under the hood, the 2021 has almost twice the power....
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,405
102
106
They say that every generation though. I mean I can already name 2 current gen games a 3090 will barely do 4K60 at max settings--Detroit Become Human and RDR2. There's a reason why next gen consoles are targeting 4K30 for flagship games.
Well, given that benchmarks are dropping for the 3080, it does RDR2 on 4K at 73.5fps average (99th percentile is 54.4) on Ultra with even a i7-4770K and 16GB DDR3, I would say, yes, the 3090 will be doing 4K60 this generation with current games especially on a current/new system (I pointed out the i7-4770K though for all those who just want to put in the new video card, as it will get you 4K60 even on an old system).
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
19,841
2,035
126
as i've learned from decades of watching demolition derbies:

sandbaggers are lame, but sandbaggers are winners
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
230
32
91
as others said - they are a business..

but is it truly bad?

stupid impatient first adopter buyers are voluntarily paying the R&D costs for the rest of us.. while smarter more patient buying know that
a. the same cards are coming with more memory , guaranteed
b. the same cards may also have specs/prices adjusted lower when AMD response is here

there are also those for whom it is a status thing, they are busy compensating for something else in their life.

As any other status consumption , my thought on it was always "let them". Same applies to these video cards and those who both sell _and_ buy them on e-bay now. you get what you deserve
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
12,989
246
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Like everyone else has said it's their business model. No corporation or company will ever be truly loyal to it's employees or consumers. They are here to make money. At least this is my take on it having came and lived in the US all this time.

If you've seen the latest rumors that the 3090 bench marks are only about 10% better than the 3080, and noticed that same site posted gigabyte cards with the 3060, 3070 16gb and 3080 20gb configurations, it's pretty clear there will be something else coming. This way they can continue to make profit from everyone.

Early adopters pay for the beginning, the rest of the people pay later. This is what happens when you don't have competition in the same time frame. The past few years, every time I've wanted to do an upgrade, it's always been...just wait because it's not exactly worth it yet.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,070
1,351
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Early adopters pay for the beginning, the rest of the people pay later. This is what happens when you don't have competition in the same time frame. The past few years, every time I've wanted to do an upgrade, it's always been...just wait because it's not exactly worth it yet.
Imagine paying the huge markup from the scalpers only to find out that in the end your getting the double shaft.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
12,989
246
106
Imagine paying the huge markup from the scalpers only to find out that in the end your getting the double shaft.
Well scalping exists because people that don't know how to make wise financial decisions exist. Sure supply and demand 100% fuel it but no one is forcing people to buy for 2x the MSRP. They won't even notice they are being screwed because those people will turn around and do the same thing next cycle.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,405
102
106
If you've seen the latest rumors that the 3090 bench marks are only about 10% better than the 3080, and noticed that same site posted gigabyte cards with the 3060, 3070 16gb and 3080 20gb configurations, it's pretty clear there will be something else coming. This way they can continue to make profit from everyone.
The 10% performance difference does not really surprise me. The 3090 has only 20% more cuda cores, but a slightly lower boost clock than the 2080, so 15%-20% was the most that anyone should have realistically thought it could do, and in the case of games that the driver does not work perfectly with, you can easily see it only getting 10% or so performance.

The good news for many of us is that AMD might actually have a competing product. This means we might find out how much Nvidia really has kept in reserve and how quickly they feel that they will release it this time. We all know there is typically a Ti release, so we might see it sooner than expected if some of the leaked AMD info turns out to be true. Good for most of us that didn't create a bot to purchase a 3080 (or who rightly are waiting to see what happens with AMD and can wait for the initial scalpers are done buying everything they can get their hands on).
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,133
16,351
136
Why do they do it? They want enthusiasts to buy twice in a span of a few months? Why can't they at least reveal the Ti/Super version of the 3080 now so we know what to expect? Honest question. This does nothing but frustrate. It used to be pretty customary to release the high end and a cut down version first with mid-rangers to follow. The 3090 doesn't count because $1500 is straight stupid and the 3080 is sort of giving people what they want, but of course, they short-change us on the ram. Why not just release an actual product with good performance, an upgrade in ram, and at a reasonable price? What the hell is wrong with them?
Because they know that moonbogg will keep threatening not to buy the current generation for these reasons, but will buy it anyway and keep getting mad about it.

So they just keep selling 2x the amount of GPUs that moonbogg would otherwise not buy.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
12,989
246
106
The 10% performance difference does not really surprise me. The 3090 has only 20% more cuda cores, but a slightly lower boost clock than the 2080, so 15%-20% was the most that anyone should have realistically thought it could do, and in the case of games that the driver does not work perfectly with, you can easily see it only getting 10% or so performance.

The good news for many of us is that AMD might actually have a competing product. This means we might find out how much Nvidia really has kept in reserve and how quickly they feel that they will release it this time. We all know there is typically a Ti release, so we might see it sooner than expected if some of the leaked AMD info turns out to be true. Good for most of us that didn't create a bot to purchase a 3080 (or who rightly are waiting to see what happens with AMD and can wait for the initial scalpers are done buying everything they can get their hands on).
Yup I'm hoping that the higher ram versions are actually released sooner for this reason. So hopefully amd does counter with something soon.
 

Guru

Senior member
May 5, 2017
799
307
106
Why do they do it? They want enthusiasts to buy twice in a span of a few months? Why can't they at least reveal the Ti/Super version of the 3080 now so we know what to expect? Honest question. This does nothing but frustrate. It used to be pretty customary to release the high end and a cut down version first with mid-rangers to follow. The 3090 doesn't count because $1500 is straight stupid and the 3080 is sort of giving people what they want, but of course, they short-change us on the ram. Why not just release an actual product with good performance, an upgrade in ram, and at a reasonable price? What the hell is wrong with them?
Stop buying these cards the second they are available! People who buy them are the problem, then a 3080 20GB is released and they are angry, but they sell the 10GB one they bought, probably lose good $100 on that by then, and add probably $100 more for the 20GB one, so $200 or $300 down the drain, but at least they get a 20GB 3080.

I mean I would never buy a card when it first launches, I'll wait for reviews, I'll wait for the competition to release their cards, then I'll wait for prices to start dropping a bit and only then will I buy if it really worthwhile!
 
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mv2devnull

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,308
45
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I mean I would never buy a card when it first launches, I'll wait for reviews, I'll wait for the competition to release their cards, then I'll wait for prices to start dropping a bit and only then will I buy if it really worthwhile!
And somewhere there wait until the product is in stock (although that probably happens before prices drop).
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,405
102
106
Stop buying these cards the second they are available! People who buy them are the problem, then a 3080 20GB is released and they are angry, but they sell the 10GB one they bought, probably lose good $100 on that by then, and add probably $100 more for the 20GB one, so $200 or $300 down the drain, but at least they get a 20GB 3080.
That or buy from a company that cares a bit about their customers and get something like an EVGA that has the trade-in/up guaranty so that you get all the money you spend on the first card you bought towards the second card (only works well when the second card is more expensive than the first).
 

Edgy

Senior member
Sep 21, 2000
360
6
81
Why do they do it? For profit/marketing advantage/boredom etc., whatever. There is no "good for consumer" reason for what they do lol (at least none that I can think of).

I for one will wait till I see what the red team has to offer and make a decision then.

I remember during my own tech lust/gadget envy phase in my life - always having to have the best product as soon as it came out. And to be honest my WORST purchases ever were when I was successful at purchasing exactly that - top of the line product as soon as it was out.
 

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