Why does intel suck?

[BonzaiDuck]

Didn't Intel establish some sort of corporate relationship with ATI? If the OP is concerned about Intel retreating a bit on graphics or reasons for some other market anomalies, then that would be an important factor.

If there was such an arrangement between ATI and Intel, it is also interesting how Intel excluded nVidia from making Intel-compatible chipsets a couple years ago.

 

[Yuriman]

Didn't Intel establish some sort of corporate relationship with ATI? If the OP is concerned about Intel retreating a bit on graphics or reasons for some other market anomalies, then that would be an important factor.

If there was such an arrangement between ATI and Intel, it is also interesting how Intel excluded nVidia from making Intel-compatible chipsets a couple years ago.

I don't remember the details of it, but at this point there isn't really anything left in a chipset for nVidia to make. Intel (and AMD) has integrated almost all of it onto the CPU itself, for obvious reasons.

 

[piesquared]

Of course Intel can compete.

We have already seen Apple dump both AMD and Nvidia for Intel's Haswell based IGP's.

It is one of the reasons why Microsoft have chosen Intel for their Surface Pro range of tablets.

Intel's IGP's are going to be taking more and more marketshare away from everyone else, as the next few years rolls along.

You can cling to your one off example of Vista all you like, it ain't going to save you from the reality that lies ahead.

There's medication for your dillusional fantasies. intel won't come close to the competition in graphics. IIRC you were claiming the same thing with ivy bridge, and sandy bridge before that. You were likely pumping GMA as the best graphics solution before that, because it had the lead in market share.

 

[piesquared]

This has been the case now for over 20 years, why is it only when Intel has increased the abilities of their IGP's, that discrete attach rates have fallen?

Yep, how sad that they manage to hold the lead in market share. Does wonders for the industry, and gaming in particular.

Here's intels latest and greatest.

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/47257-amd-a10-5700/

Wow, and this is AMD's 32nm vs intel's 22nm.

 

[Zor Prime]

Serious question. With a market cap and R&D exceeding 20x that of their competitors, it's amazing that they get destroyed by every competitor in the industry regarding GPU performance. And, their CPU performance lead evaporates in multi threaded workloads. Do they need better hardware and software engineers?

I haven't seen one answer, or even a theory as to why yet.

I'll take a stab at it.

Intel doesn't care about GFX performance. It just needs to be "good enough."

 

[Yuriman]

I'm quite surprised by the 3d load power consumption figures.

For clarification though, this image is comparing an i3 with a GTX-680 and an A10 with a GTX-680:

This one compares them when they're both running their respective iGPUs:

The 5700 looks like a fantastic choice for a low power HTPC/light gaming rig, but I'd probably still opt for an i3 and a cheap discreet card over either of the K chips if budget permits.

 

[Exophase]

I haven't seen one answer, or even a theory as to why yet.

I'll take a stab at it.

Intel doesn't care about GFX performance. It just needs to be "good enough."

I guess money doesn't instantly equalize everything. The ATI engineers AMD acquired have been seriously pursuing state of the art GPU performance for a very long time. Much longer than Intel has.

That aside, just because a company like Intel is spending a bunch of money on R&D doesn't mean they're allocating a large amount of it to GPU development. Companies have different divisions and often these come with different subcultures and capabilities.

 

[CHADBOGA]

There's medication for your dillusional fantasies. intel won't come close to the competition in graphics.

So you don't believe that increasing marketshare is a demonstration of competing?

Why do you think Apple dumped AMD and Nvidia out of their laptop range for Haswell's IGP?

The market will determine how successful a product is, not some sad fanboy's rant.

IIRC you were claiming the same thing with ivy bridge, and sandy bridge before that. You were likely pumping GMA as the best graphics solution before that, because it had the lead in market share.

Please provide any such quotes. We both know you can not.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Yep, how sad that they manage to hold the lead in market share.

They aren't just holding their lead, they are going to be extending it.

Does wonders for the industry, and gaming in particular.

Just like AMD's weak IPC CPU's have been holding everyone back?

And what about the damage to the gaming industry the FX's range of graphics is doing? :awe:

 

[Nemesis 1]

There's medication for your dillusional fantasies. intel won't come close to the competition in graphics. IIRC you were claiming the same thing with ivy bridge, and sandy bridge before that. You were likely pumping GMA as the best graphics solution before that, because it had the lead in market share.

You do understand the more powerful these IGPs become the less money AMD makes Just pretend AMD ATI Are seperate . Now Intel has IVY and AMD has APU . NV and ATI lose , Intel is the only winner here. You could also link some reviews of AMD ultra book beating intels graphics Ultra books that right low power AMD sucks on graphics really badlly so I mean its worse than Intels stuff can you imagine who bad that must be.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Spring will be amusing with this guy . Haswell in the high end tablets and Clover trail covering the rest . AMD hondo will be a complete joke

 

[moonbogg]

I don't think my Intel 6 core CPU's multi threaded lead would "evaporate" against an AMD 8 core. Epitroll.

 

[Maragark]

Spring will be amusing with this guy . Haswell in the high end tablets and Clover trail covering the rest . AMD hondo will be a complete joke

Haswell will be going up against the 28 nm Temash and Kabini in the low power markets, and Kaveri in the laptop and desktop markets. All AMDs 28nm APUs will be using GCN. The HD 7750 has 8 compute units. Trinity performs a bit better than a 4 CU GCN part would. The HD 6670 performs like a 5 CU GCN part and the top end Kaveri will most likely use a 6 CU GCN part. Temash and Kabini are likely to use 1 and 2 CUs respectively, with Kaveri using 4 and 6 CUs.

Hondo is a 40nm chip that consumes around 5W. Temash will be better in every metric. I wouldn't bet on Haswell beating it.

As for the 32nm Clover Trail, 28nm Kabini will destroy it. Also, there's not a chance in hell that Haswell will beat Kaveri in the GPU department, so I'm expecting to see a lot of mini-ITX budget gaming systems using Kaveri. These systems will be aimed at console users and will be priced around $300 - $400.

 

[Maragark]

Oh and if I want a fast computer for the enthusiast or gaming market, I'm getting an intel processor and a dedicated gpu...even those on a budget I would never recommend an AMD processor with an on die GPU...there isn't a point, when price for price in a cpu comparision, intel dominates for gaming, and even a cheap current dedicated GPU will be faster than any onboard gpu.

You're not seeing the bigger picture. APUs allow you to build mini-ITX systems (with a proper small case like the Antec ISK-100). A Trinity based system with wireless gamepad, keyboard & mouse, 4-8 GB RAM and 1TB HD will cost around $300 - $400. That makes it a direct competitor to the consoles. Personally, I don't think Trinity is quite good enough for the job but Kaveri will be.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Haswell will be going up against the 28 nm Temash and Kabini in the low power markets, and Kaveri in the laptop and desktop markets. All AMDs 28nm APUs will be using GCN. The HD 7750 has 8 compute units. Trinity performs a bit better than a 4 CU GCN part would. The HD 6670 performs like a 5 CU GCN part and the top end Kaveri will most likely use a 6 CU GCN part. Temash and Kabini are likely to use 1 and 2 CUs respectively, with Kaveri using 4 and 6 CUs.

Hondo is a 40nm chip that consumes around 5W. Temash will be better in every metric. I wouldn't bet on Haswell beating it.

As for the 32nm Clover Trail, 28nm Kabini will destroy it. Also, there's not a chance in hell that Haswell will beat Kaveri in the GPU department, so I'm expecting to see a lot of mini-ITX budget gaming systems using Kaveri. These systems will be aimed at console users and will be priced around $300 - $400.

AMD has NOTHING that can compete with haswell not now or within 5 years. AMD just released trinity on 28 . So I don't see amd getting alot of help from anything other than the 20nm process. Intel will have 14 nm out befor amd has 20nm out. I don't care what their road maps say, As long as their stuck at 28nm don't expect alot .

 

[Maragark]

AMD has NOTHING that can compete with haswell not now or within 5 years. AMD just released trinity on 28 . So I don't see amd getting alot of help from anything other than the 20nm process. Intel will have 14 nm out befor amd has 20nm out. I don't care what their road maps say, As long as their stuck at 28nm don't expect alot .

Trinity is 32nm, not 28nm. Haswell will hopefully bring GPU performance up to the level of Trinity but it's not going to come close to Kaveri's GPU performance.

Like I said, Kaveri will be have 6 GCN compute units. To put that in comparison, the HD 7750 has 8, the HD 7770 has 10, the HD 7850 has 16, the HD 7870 has 20, the HD 7950 has 28 and the HD 7970 has 32.