Why does every mobo have on-board audio? Even enthusiast boards.

[Locut0s]

I understand having on-board audio for the lower market segment as it's a cheap add-on and alleviates the need for the OEM to add in a sound card. But why does every single mobo manufacturer have to add on-board sound with every single edition of their boards? Even the highest end enthusiast boards have on-board audio. Most hardware buffs and serious builders I know use separate audio cards. Personally if I'm going to spend the money on a high end board I would rather see something else take up that PCB space. Perhaps more I/O ports, perhaps some other feature not usually included on Mobos.

 

[MJinZ]

I don't. No space for one. X58 Classified. $400 board.

 

[Locut0s]

I don't. No space for one. X58 Classified. $400 board.

You mean no space for a sound card? What setup do you have? Triple SLI or Crossfire? I guess that would be an issue. How do you find the on-board audio quality then? I dislike most of the generic audio chips out there but I do know where are some good offerings here and there.

 

[yinan]

On board sound is good enough for most people. I know I havent bought a sound card in 10 years. If you want really good sound, then you will buy a card for it. Me personally I would rather have the additional expansion slot/one less thing to install.

 

[MJinZ]

You mean no space for a sound card? What setup do you have? Triple SLI or Crossfire? I guess that would be an issue. How do you find the on-board audio quality then? I dislike most of the generic audio chips out there but I do know where are some good offerings here and there.

PCI-e x1 is occupied by Northbridge cooling fans

Can not use more than 2x 16x PCIe or they drop down to 8x.

Have one empty PCI slot but nothing worth buying for it.

I use X-Fi drivers for the Realtek sound and they sound fine. BAD experience with Creative cards so...

 

[Locut0s]

PCI-e x1 is occupied by Northbridge cooling fans

Can not use more than 2x 16x PCIe or they drop down to 8x.

Have one empty PCI slot but nothing worth buying for it.

I use X-Fi drivers for the Realtek sound and they sound fine. BAD experience with Creative cards so...

Yeah creative just sort of gave up in recent years. Too bad considering how their products were the gold standard during the early years. WTF is wrong with their driver programmers anyway they can't seem to write bug free drivers to save their lives.

I'm looking at getting an ASUS or Azuntech card for my next build. Although the Azuntech card I'm looking at is X-Fi based anyway so...

 

[mfenn]

I understand having on-board audio for the lower market segment as it's a cheap add-on and alleviates the need for the OEM to add in a sound card. But why does every single mobo manufacturer have to add on-board sound with every single edition of their boards? Even the highest end enthusiast boards have on-board audio. Most hardware buffs and serious builders I know use separate audio cards. Personally if I'm going to spend the money on a high end board I would rather see something else take up that PCB space. Perhaps more I/O ports, perhaps some other feature not usually included on Mobos.

Hmmmm. Most "serious builders" (your term, not mine) who care about sound are going to be using digital out (either S/PDIF or HDMI) to a high-quality external DAC, and thus do NOT need an add-in board.

 

[Locut0s]

Hmmmm. Most "serious builders" (your term, not mine) who care about sound are going to be using digital out (either S/PDIF or HDMI) to a high-quality DAC, and thus do NOT need an add-in board.

Yeah that's true. Didn't think about that. The main thing I'm looking at for my next build is that I'd like to be able to use quality headphones. Nothing truely professional but maybe something like the Sennheiser HD555s. And I just don't trust the on-board audio chips to be able to drive this type of headphone. I also don't want to go through the trouble of using an external amp so I'm going to be looking for a card with a built in headphone amp.

 

[MJinZ]

Yeah creative just sort of gave up in recent years. Too bad considering how their products were the gold standard during the early years. WTF is wrong with their driver programmers anyway they can't seem to write bug free drivers to save their lives.

I'm looking at getting an ASUS or Azuntech card for my next build. Although the Azuntech card I'm looking at is X-Fi based anyway so...

I would like an Auzentech card for my PCI slot, but it messes up the symmetry of my system and it is debatable if I would be able to tell the difference.

Most importantly, it would affect cooling of top card (probably).

PS. 5870s have since been sold, will be GTX 480s in there eventually (and will have to get another PSU probably).

 

[Locut0s]

I would like an Auzentech card for my PCI slot, but it messes up the symmetry of my system and it is debatable if I would be able to tell the difference.

Most importantly, it would affect cooling of top card (probably).

Cool looking setup. I have to say I'm not a personal fan of those open-air "benchmark" type cases (I know of the Bancheto) but yours looks nice. Isn't noise an issue though? Without even a case in-between you and those Radeon HSFs at full speed it must be like a jet engine.

 

[MJinZ]

Cool looking setup. I have to say I'm not a personal fan of those open-air "benchmark" type cases (I know of the Bancheto) but yours looks nice. Isn't noise an issue though? Without even a case in-between you and those Radeon HSFs at full speed it must be like a jet engine.

Radeons are very quiet... never goes above 40% or so in fans.

Loudest component is either HD or the 92mm Gentle Typhoons on the side.

 

[Locut0s]

Radeons are very quiet... never goes above 40% or so in fans.

Loudest component is either HD or the 92mm Gentle Typhoons on the side.

Yeah I'm using my old GTS 8800 GTS as a reference point which sounds like a quiet weed whacker at full load

 

[mfenn]

Yeah that's true. Didn't think about that. The main thing I'm looking at for my next build is that I'd like to be able to use quality headphones. Nothing truely professional but maybe something like the Sennheiser HD555s. And I just don't trust the on-board audio chips to be able to drive this type of headphone. I also don't want to go through the trouble of using an external amp so I'm going to be looking for a card with a built in headphone amp.

Headphones make this interesting. I would say to go with the Headroom Total Bithead instead of a sound card. You get a high-quality amp that is isolated from the maelstrom of RF noise that is the inside of a computer. It can run off AAA batteries or USB and is quite compact. If you're looking to spend a little more, Headroom's combination Desktop Amp/DAC is excellent.

3. Q. When the BitHead is connected to my computer, how is the BitHead powered?
A. By putting your power switch in the ‘off’ position, the BitHead obtains power from your computer via USB. For those who want the best (read: cleanest) possible power supplied to their BitHead, then simply flip the power switch ‘on’ and the BitHead will use battery power for the amp section instead (while the DAC section is still running from USB).

 

[Locut0s]

Headphones make this interesting. I would say to go with the Headroom Total Bithead instead of a sound card. You get a high-quality amp that is isolated from the maelstrom of RF noise that is the inside of a computer. It can run off AAA batteries or USB and is quite compact. If you're looking to spend a little more, Headroom's combination Desktop Amp/DAC is excellent.

Huh, thanks for the recommendation!

 

[TheStu]

I don't mind onboard audio, and ever since the SoundStorm 2, I haven't really felt the need to use a separate card. My music isn't encoded in a high enough quality to warrant needing a high quality card, and I am dubious of the Creative X-Fi series, it seems like a lot of additional money when I am already satisfied. If my music was lossless, and had slightly nicer headphones (Grado SR60s) then I would go for a separate headphone amp and a better DAC (either internal or external).

 

[lsv]

Onboard audio is good enough for 95% of the end users out there. Most can even do 24bit/96khz out. The only problems visible could be high channel use and not low enough latency. Something like a Realtek or Via sound card can't handle super low latency (2ms let's say) plus multiple channels in/out. Most will be around 10ms depending on the buffer available.

 

[sandorski]

Ya, Onboard is very good these days. When I got pissed with my Audigy 5(ish) years back, I ripped it out and started using Onboard. I noticed a slight difference(mainly Volume of Output), but not enough to motivate me to put the Audigy back in.

 

[alyarb]

Hmmmm. Most "serious builders" (your term, not mine) who care about sound are going to be using digital out (either S/PDIF or HDMI) to a high-quality external DAC, and thus do NOT need an add-in board.

this for ten+ years.

 

[dguy6789]

With the exception of audiophiles, most people can't tell the difference between a good sound card and the on board audio. Many people(even the kind that spend $400 on a video card) consider spending a hundred bucks on a sound card to be a waste of money.

 

[Lonyo]

Ya, Onboard is very good these days. When I got pissed with my Audigy 5(ish) years back, I ripped it out and started using Onboard. I noticed a slight difference(mainly Volume of Output), but not enough to motivate me to put the Audigy back in.

I had the opposite experience.
The output of onboard was far too quiet so I was forced to put my Audigy back in to get usable sound output from my headphones.

But otherwise I would stick to using my onboard, because it's plenty good enough. I use it for my speakers, and switch between headphones and speakers using Windows' sound control panel rather than having to physically change over, so in the end it worked out for the best.

 

[corkyg]

As a dedicated audiophile for over 50 years, this thread is amusing. For me, the most important part of a good sound system is to be able to tap the pre-amplified LINE OUT of any sound card, mobo or add on, and connect it to a quality external sound system driving room quality speakers, etc. The LINE OUT signal from any computer is very much the same.

 

[hiddensniper11]

Maybe the cost to implement onboard audio is so low that it just doesn't make any sense not to put it in when every other competitor is doing it.

And most people are more than happy with onboard audio.

 

[Modelworks]

If you are using the digital out there is zero difference between current onboard audio and an external sound card. All the realtek chips in the last 2 years have a direct pipe from the southbridge to the digital connector on the motherboard .

Where you start to lose quality is when you let the onboard opamps and DAC process the audio. Having the dac and amp external to the pc case also gets rid of things like rf noise, ground loops.
Someone really needs to start selling an low cost external dac for the pc . The chips to handle the conversion and add even a headphone output are only about $10 total.

The space the onboard audio takes is tiny. less than a square inch.

 

[C1]

As a dedicated audiophile for over 50 years, this thread is amusing. For me, the most important part of a good sound system is to be able to tap the pre-amplified LINE OUT of any sound card, mobo or add on, and connect it to a quality external sound system driving room quality speakers, etc. The LINE OUT signal from any computer is very much the same.

If youre into audiophile, then source to preamp out is where the critical action is. This pretty much determines the S/N of the system and frequency contour usually added by the source (via any shaping networks such as phono cartridge RIAA).

In my audiophile quests, I found that the amplifier is one of the easier components to deal with. The transducers (type, quality & placement), room set up (eg, reverberation characteristics & modes), preamp stage (S/N) and finally, of course, the source material itself and what it is played on. It is when you begin to attempt to achieve rock concert levels in the home that theory actually becomes reality as it literally grabs one by the throat.

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[Zap]

most people can't tell the difference between a good sound card and the on board audio.

This.

Where most people seem to hear a difference is in perceived loudness. That has nothing to do with quality or simply with being "good enough."

Most "enthusiasts" either got their "onboard audio sucks" from other enthusiasts, or from experiences with AC'97. Modern onboard HD audio works and sounds just fine to most people - enthusiasts included if they would take off their rose tinted glasses.

If someone comes along and yanks out your discrete sound card and switch you to integrated HD audio, and made sure to match output levels, would you really notice?

Years ago my Windows colors got switched from 24-bit to 16-bit. I never noticed!

Doesn't mean that there can't be bad implementations or just faulty onboard audio (like on my previous MSI P35 Platinum, mic input just picked up static).