Why does a toaster oven need a circuit board?

[NikolaeVarius]

How many people know which transistor to solder? The springy thing on my current washing machine has been working great for the last 13 years.

And how many people would know exactly how to remove and replace the spring and keep the timer properly calibrated?

Circuits massively simplify and increase the reliability of many common appliances.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Why are we fighting over washing machines, I'd rather fight over dishwashers. Personally, I think anything more than a woman doing them is overkill. :sneaky: They never break down....well..except you know..when you break them down.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Why are we fighting over washing machines, I'd rather fight over dishwashers. Personally, I think anything more than a woman doing them is overkill. :sneaky: They never break down....well..except you know..when you break them down.

My women has circuit boards, or at least the imaginary one in my mind that is an Android.

 

[Red Squirrel]

And how many people would know exactly how to remove and replace the spring and keep the timer properly calibrated?

Circuits massively simplify and increase the reliability of many common appliances.

Because you can see it work and see what it's doing. You don't have the proper part? You can probably rig something, or bypass that part entirely and just have to manually flip switches, if you're stuck.

Thermonuclear war breaks out and mostly everything is destroyed, guess what is going to be easier to salvage and fix? The mechanical/simple stuff. An old car will be easier to get going than a newer electronic filled car, for example.

 

[sdifox]

Why does a washing machine need a circuit board? Why do we gum up our lives with needless complexity. I was just reading a thread over in the Highly Technical forum about a poster fixing the blown electronics on a toaster oven. It worked out and the oven lives again but why was there a circuit board in there in the first place? I was looking for a portable swamp cooler and found one that had an LCD screen to let you know it is running. Swamp coolers are 8th century technology (if not ancient); they don't really benefit from electronic control. Are manufacturers concerned that stuff will last too long and so add an electronic part to break?

Why? Why? Why?


Ooh! Shiny!

Get off the internet.

 

[sandorski]

So the aliens can turn our appliances against us.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Certain things make sense to have circuitry. Others... not so much. Per the op, there is no reason for anything more complicated than a rheostat controlled heating element and an egg timer for a simple toaster oven.

 

[Sheep221]

The electronized appliances and vehicles are key to simplicity rather than complexity. They are less costly to manufacture which in turn also makes them cheaper.
While electronics are complex in logical sense, they are not complex in mechanical. The simple CPUs and ICs are able to replace thousands of switches, relays and contactors in some applications.
Yes there are companies who are installing terminating circuitry in the PCBs but not that much. I find modern appliances to be much more reliable and consume much less power.
In previous wave of appliances we had every of them repaired 4-5 times, over the same period our newer ones were never repaired and malfunctioned, beside my washing machine which stopped working for first time probably week ago in 8 years and I got it fixed for $30. Onboard electronics greatly increased the reliability by controlling the functions and monitoring the current and voltage and correct unexpected changes without damage to the device and most of the time also not interrupting its operation.
The circuitry in heaters, kettles, swamp coolers and more is there also for protection of the key components in them, which if would contact with voltage spike or overcurrent could be burned and cause fire, where after impact the device is still functional. While in some other devices, such as AC, Coffee maker, the electronics are added for more comfort(remote control, one-click operation and more).
The electronics in cars, trains and airplanes replaced the huge complex dash boards and instrument panels with single flat displays which allow for better diagnostic and monitoring tasks, reduced fuel consumption and decreased the price per unit both for manufacturer and customer.
Yes the car servicing and some companies made a good business of this, but otherwise I think it's way better.

There is however one downside of this, electronics are replacing the mechanical thinking in humans in a lot of cases, calculators, GPS navigation, electronized airplanes, computers and internet, all these are making us a bit dumb once they stop working for a while.
It's crucial for key professions to be periodically trained how to still use manual stuff.

 

[tracerbullet]

... upgrade ...

That's the key word. Is it an upgrade or is it unnecessary?

Washing machines - sure, there's a lot of good stuff they can do, features and options that are worthwhile making a new one an upgrade. But how about the *tail* lights on a BMW 135i? There's a circuit board inside of each of them as well. A wiring harness plugged into the back as normal, but a circuit board inside as well. I'm not so sure it's an upgrade, I'm leaning towards that being unnecessary.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Properly made electronics are more reliable than the analog control systems which preceded them. Of course, many of them aren't made properly...

And yes, people like flashy LCD panels.

Older Washer machine technology has not changed for 25-30 YEARS.

It has been proven and reliable. There is TONS of knowledge and troubleshooting is mostly pretty easy (same for assembly/disassemble)

I can take apart my washer machine COMPLETELY in no more than 10-15 min.

Past 20 years it has broke ONCE. I had to replace a clutch.

When it happened my wife wanted me to get her one of those front loaders/LCD screen etc.

Upon doing some research and reading about troubleshooting and how complex the new machines are I simply told her "over my dead body". There is no way in HELL I'm buying that as these new machines are complex and pain in the ass to work on.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Have you ever examined a multifunction mechanical/electric (non-electronic) switch for a washing machine? The circuit board is simple in comparison. There's a reason we moved away from such complicated mechanical devices - they're expensive, difficult to repair and require regular tuning.

I have and you are VERY wrong.

It is VERY simple

And no Circuit board is NOT simple nor cheap to replace, as in most cases there isn't much you can do other than replace it. My neighbors 2 month old "front loader" Mother board went bad and thankfully it was covered under warranty cause the cost was almost $300 for parts and labor. That's about the cost of your NORMAL Washer machine.

The only reason is $$$$. New washer machines are cheaper to make AND bring in bigger profit margins.

Normal Washer machines are NOT expensive, not difficult to repair and do NOT require any tuning.

What are you talking about willis?

 

[Vdubchaos]

That's the key word. Is it an upgrade or is it unnecessary?

Washing machines - sure, there's a lot of good stuff they can do, features and options that are worthwhile making a new one an upgrade. But how about the *tail* lights on a BMW 135i? There's a circuit board inside of each of them as well. A wiring harness plugged into the back as normal, but a circuit board inside as well. I'm not so sure it's an upgrade, I'm leaning towards that being unnecessary.

If you take apart your BMW you will notice TONS of things like this.

German Engineering = overly complex and expensive for no apparent reason.

These new BMWs have no freakin dip stick. Are you kidding me? No way in HELL I would rely on Germany electronics to check oil for me hehe.

Germany has a LONG history of sucking at Electronics/Electronic Gremlins YET they are putting more electronic crap into their cars than just about ANYONE.

AND to top it off, people are actually buying it.

More power to these companies is what I say!!!

 

[natto fire]

And whats with those kids skateboarding on the sidewalks? Remember when a bowl of soup was a nickel? Computers really peaked with ENIAC, it has been needless switching to circuit boards ever since.

Planned obsolescence aside (there is probably a secret summit by many manufacturers where they decide on the average reliability of their products) it is simply because people starting buying the models with circuit boards more than the older ones. The reasons vary, either lower costs or more features, but the market is self correcting. I hear this gripe a lot, but apparently most people just whine about it and don't put their money where their mouth is. Same thing as people complaining about how bad games are getting, but pre-orders are still doing quite well.

edit: I still see older washer and dryers for sale all the time on Craigslist around here, so don't give me crap about availability of alternatives to the complex models

 

[exdeath]

Temperature control, timer, current/temperature/short monitoring for safety and automatic cutoff features, intermittent buzzer, etc. Tiny surface mount microcontrollers cost nothing and run forever. A small PCB and microcontroller costs pennies and will be the last part to fail in 100 years.

Most of the fuss is lack of understanding of electronics. Tail light with a PCB? Sure, its probably an LED array that requires a driver/controller, regulator, PWM circuitry, heat sinks. etc. Suddenly makes sense now.

 

[Vdubchaos]

And whats with those kids skateboarding on the sidewalks? Remember when a bowl of soup was a nickel? Computers really peaked with ENIAC, it has been needless switching to circuit boards ever since.

Planned obsolescence aside (there is probably a secret summit by many manufacturers where they decide on the average reliability of their products) it is simply because people starting buying the models with circuit boards more than the older ones. The reasons vary, either lower costs or more features, but the market is self correcting. I hear this gripe a lot, but apparently most people just whine about it and don't put their money where their mouth is. Same thing as people complaining about how bad games are getting, but pre-orders are still doing quite well.

This is true. This is exactly why my gaming interest have dwindled down to NOTHING at this point.....I just refuse to support the BS Developers are doing.

Same for washers. Refuse to buy a front loader/overly complex machine.....especially since I'm the one that will be fixing it. Ohh HELL no.

The problem is not the companies, after all, they are in business to make as much money as possible.

The problem is people. My proof, this thread. hehe

Companies have a BIGGER incentive to keep you coming back every 2-5 years and buying a new machine than they have to make one that lasts forever. Heck ,they have 0 incentive to sell you one that lasts forever!!!

Almost any appliance you buy these days will most likely need to be replaced within 3-5 years (depending on the usage).

Days of "you get what you pay for" are gone......more you pay, more complex it is, more it will cost you to fix/maintain and replace. This is especially the case with Appliances AND Cars.

 

[Blackjack200]

Most of the fuss is lack of understanding of electronics. Tail light with a PCB? Sure, its probably an LED array that requires a driver/controller, regulator, PWM circuitry, heat sinks. etc. Suddenly makes sense now.

PCB also probably tells the car's computer if the tail light is not working so the computer can inform the driver.

I'm amazed at the whining and complete lack of understanding of these concepts on a tech board.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

 

[Vdubchaos]

PCB also probably tells the car's computer if the tail light is not working so the computer can inform the driver.

Checking tail light on consistent basis is driver responsibility. I never had an issue with that.

It's no different than checking oil or tire pressure.

I DO NOT want ANY of my cars to do that FOR ME. I do NOT trust German electronics!!! And no I'm not willing to pay for these stupid options.

 

[Murloc]

Anyone complaining about complicating things needlessly drives stick right?

 

[Mixolydian]

Checking tail light on consistent basis is driver responsibility. I never had an issue with that.

It's no different than checking oil or tire pressure.

I DO NOT want ANY of my cars to do that FOR ME. I do NOT trust German electronics!!! And no I'm not willing to pay for these stupid options.

LOL.

 

[natto fire]

PCB also probably tells the car's computer if the tail light is not working so the computer can inform the driver.

I'm amazed at the whining and complete lack of understanding of these concepts on a tech board.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

How do polychlorinated biphenyls tell a car anything? I kid, I kid. I think the main thing to remember is that despite the jokes, the average age here is getting up there, as most of the youngsters are trolls and either run off or busy trolling VC&G and the gaming forums. Couple that with the fact that society in general is getting more vocal about what it dislikes instead of praising what it does like. Coincidentally, all the free time to do this whining comes from the extremely high quality of life technology affords us.

 

[Blackjack200]

Checking tail light on consistent basis is driver responsibility.

For centuries wealthy individuals that wanted to travel a substantial distance on land did so primarily on horses. They named the horse, cared for the horse, shoed the horse, and were careful not to overwork the horse. In many cases they developed close relationships with their animals.

Then, a "horseless" carriage was invented. It provided a means of conveyance far more convenient and reliable than its equestrian counterpart. That said, its operator needed to frequently service and repair its engine and drive train, fix broken wheels, axles, and any number of other parts that might go wrong.

Gradually, over time, the makers of these machines added oil pans, fuel injection, CV joints, differentials, windshields, seat belts, cruise control, and thousands of other incremental improvements to make their operation, safer, more convienent, more reliable, and more efficient.

One effect of these changes is that the automobile has tranformed from a tempermental, maintanence-heavy machine that demanded frequent attention from its owner to an appliance that's largely used by people that have no idea how they work or how to fix them.

I have no idea why you've arbitrarily drawn a line at automatic-tail-light-failure-detection, but like a poster above me, I find your indignation quite amusing.

I never had an issue with that.

Not everyone can measure up to your supreme standard of competence.

 

[Vdubchaos]

For centuries wealthy individuals that wanted to travel a substantial distance on land did so primarily on horses. They named the horse, cared for the horse, shoed the horse, and were careful not to overwork the horse. In many cases they developed close relationships with their animals.

Then, a "horseless" carriage was invented. It provided a means of conveyance far more convenient and reliable than its equestrian counterpart. That said, its operator needed to frequently service and repair its engine and drive train, fix broken wheels, axles, and any number of other parts that might go wrong.

Gradually, over time, the makers of these machines added oil pans, fuel injection, CV joints, differentials, windshields, seat belts, cruise control, and thousands of other incremental improvements to make their operation, safer, more convienent, more reliable, and more efficient.

One effect of these changes is that the automobile has tranformed from a tempermental, maintanence-heavy machine that demanded frequent attention from its owner to an appliance that's largely used by people that have no idea how they work or how to fix them.

I have no idea why you've arbitrarily drawn a line at automatic-tail-light-failure-detection, but like a poster above me, I find your indignation quite amusing.

Are you comparing MAJOR technological advancements to minor ones?

FORM of transportation vs a fucking light bulb detector?

I find that quite amusing.

For centuries wealthy individuals that Not everyone can measure up to your supreme standard of competence.

And where did you get the "supreme standard of competence" from?

What I said is mostly based on experience over the years. Worked on cars for 15+ years and have been doing just about everything around the house during that time as well (big do it yourselfer).

If you don't mind being bent over backwards by the companies and service people every chance they get, that's not my problem.

Are you the type that goes to a dealer to get your light bulb changed?

 

[BUTCH1]

Have you ever examined a multifunction mechanical/electric (non-electronic) switch for a washing machine? The circuit board is simple in comparison. There's a reason we moved away from such complicated mechanical devices - they're expensive, difficult to repair and require regular tuning.

True, I had an old washer that I loved because of it's "filter flow", where the water is pushed back through a filter that sits on top of the agitator, keep a lot of lint from even getting to the dryer. Anyway it's control knob went bad, $80 just for the part so sadly I scrapped it..

 

[Vdubchaos]

True, I had an old washer that I loved because of it's "filter flow", where the water is pushed back through a filter that sits on top of the agitator, keep a lot of lint from even getting to the dryer. Anyway it's control knob went bad, $80 just for the part so sadly I scrapped it..

You made a mistake of getting a washer with such an option hehe

Pay more = more options/more complexity and usually more moving part = LESS RELIABLE

 

[Blackjack200]

Are you comparing MAJOR technological advancements to minor ones?

FORM of transportation vs a fucking light bulb detector?

I find that quite amusing.

Not as amusing as I find your indignation though. I find that amusing beyond your wildest imagination.

And where did you get the "supreme standard of competence" from?

I'm simply pointing out that just because you can do something, that doesn't mean it's within the far more modest capabilities of us mere mortals.

If you don't mind being bent over backwards by the companies and service people every chance they get, that's not my problem.

Oh, I rather enjoy it. It's even better if they slap my ass a little.

Are you the type that goes to a dealer to get your light bulb changed?

Don't be silly. I trade the car in for a new one.