Why Do Women Get Paid Less Than Men? An Insider Look....

[Veliko]

I see no problem with women earning slightly less than men.

Well that's noble of you.

 

[Texashiker]

Well that's noble of you.

I think the rest of my post is fair in its assessment.

Do you deny women have higher healthcare cost than men?

If a company is paying more for a womans health insurance, and giving her more time off, why should she get paid the same as a man? The company is probably paying about the same for both employees.

 

[Veliko]

I think the rest of my post is fair in its assessment.

Do you deny women have higher healthcare cost than men?

If a company is paying more for a womans health insurance, and giving her more time off, why should she get paid the same as a man? The company is probably paying about the same for both employees.

I responded to these points on the previous page.

 

[Texashiker]

I responded to these points on the previous page.

So why is pay inequality such a big issue?

In the end, women are making pretty close to what men are making, just some of their pay is in the form of benefits.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Really?

When 96% of the people in a certain field are men, that should tell you women are not willing to do those types of jobs.

Women are demanding gender equality while at the same time refusing to do the same types of work as men.

If you want gender equality, act like it.

c'mon, you aren't really this stupid are you? Confess, you're just pretending.

 

[HumblePie]

Umm equal pay for equal work is fine, but that doesn't facilitate the fact that no one really gets equal pay for equal work. I have had access to the pay scales for people in previous places I've worked. Perk of having admin DB access needs from time to time Looking at developers I noticed huge differences in pay among employees all doing basically the same thing. There was zero difference in authority given or work expected. It basically came down to who negotiated their salary better when being hired.

If you had to ask me when it comes to normal white collar jobs of why men more often then women get paid more, it's due to their haggling skills. Assuming the man in question isn't a complete introvert. Of which those guys get really screwed over. Which is why many employers like hiring Indian's and Mormons for many IT positions. They don't really haggle over their salary and work long hours without much complaint. That isn't to say they all are like that, but many of them do. Especially fresh recruits straight from India or straight out of Brigham Young.

I think many men get paid more because they are more assertive, aggressive, and bullshit more when being hired and going for promotion or pay increases. I do realize there are some places that are still the "good ol' boys" clubs out there. Many CEO positions are out of reach for most women. That sucks on a different level, but there have been many studies to why this is so. Women that reach high levels of management tend NOT to promote other women to high levels of management around them unlike men. Think Queen Bee mentality. Men in those positions don't like to promote women, because some of them do see women as inferior for those positions for whatever reason. So there is a catch 22 there for having many women in high level positions in most companies.



That skews the pay scale numbers as well as "home maker" moms that don't work for money. That isn't to say they aren't a value added member to a family or society. They certainly are. They just aren't bringing home a paycheck. More women tend to want to be home makers then men. That's just how nature wired men and women biologically different in that regard.

The last reason that skews men versus women pay scale is the women like my cousin. Tried to be a gold digger, instead ended up with 3 kids from 3 different daddies, and can't hold a job for anything. She has no marketable skills, never really had any originally besides her looks which have fallen to the wayside long ago, and can't do anything at this point to get out of her rut beyond win the lotto. She went looking for a sugar daddy and never found one. Not nearly as many men think that way although there are is a growing movement among younger men in the current gen of men to find sugar mommas. The problem is that there are fewer rich single women looking for creature comfort in a young partner as compared to rich single men.

 

[OverVolt]

Umm equal pay for equal work is fine, but that doesn't facilitate the fact that no one really gets equal pay for equal work. I have had access to the pay scales for people in previous places I've worked. Perk of having admin DB access needs from time to time Looking at developers I noticed huge differences in pay among employees all doing basically the same thing. There was zero difference in authority given or work expected. It basically came down to who negotiated their salary better when being hired.

If you had to ask me when it comes to normal white collar jobs of why men more often then women get paid more, it's due to their haggling skills. Assuming the man in question isn't a complete introvert. Of which those guys get really screwed over. Which is why many employers like hiring Indian's and Mormons for many IT positions. They don't really haggle over their salary and work long hours without much complaint. That isn't to say they all are like that, but many of them do. Especially fresh recruits straight from India or straight out of Brigham Young.

I think many men get paid more because they are more assertive, aggressive, and bullshit more when being hired and going for promotion or pay increases. I do realize there are some places that are still the "good ol' boys" clubs out there. Many CEO positions are out of reach for most women. That sucks on a different level, but there have been many studies to why this is so. Women that reach high levels of management tend NOT to promote other women to high levels of management around them unlike men. Think Queen Bee mentality. Men in those positions don't like to promote women, because some of them do see women as inferior for those positions for whatever reason. So there is a catch 22 there for having many women in high level positions in most companies.



That skews the pay scale numbers as well as "home maker" moms that don't work for money. That isn't to say they aren't a value added member to a family or society. They certainly are. They just aren't bringing home a paycheck. More women tend to want to be home makers then men. That's just how nature wired men and women biologically different in that regard.

The last reason that skews men versus women pay scale is the women like my cousin. Tried to be a gold digger, instead ended up with 3 kids from 3 different daddies, and can't hold a job for anything. She has no marketable skills, never really had any originally besides her looks which have fallen to the wayside long ago, and can't do anything at this point to get out of her rut beyond win the lotto. She went looking for a sugar daddy and never found one. Not nearly as many men think that way although there are is a growing movement among younger men in the current gen of men to find sugar mommas. The problem is that there are fewer rich single women looking for creature comfort in a young partner as compared to rich single men.

Well I'm not a CEO and I'm a man so I guess that means I have only myself to blame .

There is more to life than what you do for a living and even then there is more to making a living than how much you make. Women and men have different goals in life... usually. Most hetero ones anyway when it comes to family. Women are most likely to take care of the kids and do most of the cleaning no matter how much the internet continues to bitch about it.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto..._men_because_they_re_judged_for_the_mess.html

There ya go whine and bitch at the comments. Off you go (the whole thread, not you specifically)

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...are-more-than-men/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Women are also far more likely to take advantage of family-leave benefits to care for children. In the study, all the universities offered paid family leave, and 69 percent of the women took it, while only 12 percent of the men did. In Sweden, where family leave for both parents is particularly generous, men use about 20 percent of the 480-day benefit. Women use nearly all of it.

Nailed it!

Geez if we could only get rid of raising kids and cleaning, then society sure would be in good shape and full of equality! Just kidding we'd all die out as big slobs in one generation.

 

[Texashiker]

Women are most likely to take care of the kids and do most of the cleaning no matter how much the internet continues to bitch about it.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto..._men_because_they_re_judged_for_the_mess.html

From the linked article,

women still bear a disproportionate burden of household maintenance. While we're closer to balancing the domestic burdens between the sexes when it comes to child rearing and even cooking, Grose argues, cleaning is still one responsibility feminism hasn’t yet equalized.

Nor will it ever be equalized.

I am fencing in a 1/2 acre for a new chicken yard. The corner post are culled telephone post. Some of the post weigh in excess of 100+ pounds. There is no way my wife can handle telephone poles cut into 8 foot lengths, set them in the holes, then bearhug them and move the poles around.

How about I do the dishes and my wife builds the N and X braces to the yard chicken yard? She would do good to drive 1 t-post in 100 degree heat, much less dozens of them.

As with real life, I handle the dangerous work outside, running power tools, using chainsaw, operating the tractor,,,, while my wife handles the inside work. My wife refuses to operate a skil saw. She has told me straight up that if I want my clothes washed and my food cooked, I will be the one using the saw.

If a feminist is upset about that, then come on over help me clear a fence row with a stihl chainsaw. I want to see a feminist in August, heat index of 110, using a chainsaw, setting corner post and driving t-post. After we get done with that we will start running fence.

 

[HumblePie]

Overvolt, i never said making money was the true measure of equality between men and women.

Actually, in the few companies I've been in that I was able to see pay scale data women and men doing equivalent work tended to make equivalent pay. The bigger news stories tend to add in stuff like upper management jobs (which there is a severe lack of women in those positions for various reasons), as well as all the gold digger women, and stay at home moms. That really the data and the overall picture. When you factor in those outliers then all women on average make far less than all men on average in terms of monetary income. There is no dispute on that.

The problem lies in those that use that number for an agenda as if that actually means something. There are a variety of factors by which compute into the total of the average woman making less than the average man in today's society. It has far less to do with sexism discrimination in the workplace than it did in the past. Beyond the upper management positions, sexism is mostly gone from the vast majority of workplace positions. Women can pretty much get into any position in this country.

For my bit of anecdote, while my wife is a stay at home mom for now, I still do quite a bit of the "housework" as a guy. I cook, I do laundry, I clean the cat litter boxes, take out the trash, sweep, mop, and do the dishes. I even help with the kid with feeding and changing dirty diapers. Funny thing is my wife actually likes to do yard work which includes mowing the lawn. So I let her. I do mow it too, and more so since she has been focusing on the baby more of late.

Does sexism still exist in some places? Sure does. Is it as proliferate as it once was; or has even a significant amount of proliferation when it comes to jobs as well as a equal pay for those jobs availability to women? Not in the overall scheme of things although there are certain holdout job sectors which have a greater slant of sexism towards women. Those are the minority and not the majority. Which doesn't mean the American people should stop trying to dissuade all forms of sexism, but we shouldn't either delude ourselves into thinking it is the big problem it once was anymore.


Now if we are talking about sexism and rape on college campuses... there is a different topic and one that needs to be fixed still.

 

[nehalem256]

Now if we are talking about sexism and rape on college campuses... there is a different topic and one that needs to be fixed still.

You do realize that a majority of college students are women right?

 

[HumblePie]

You do realize that a majority of college students are women right?

What does that have to do with the fact that women at college campuses are sexually assaulted with a level disproportionate to the average population around where they live and that there is almost no punitive actions taken against those that perpetrated the sexual assaults? strawman much?

 

[nehalem256]

What does that have to do with the fact that women at college campuses are sexually assaulted with a level disproportionate to the average population around where they live and that there is almost no punitive actions taken against those that perpetrated the sexual assaults? strawman much?

Its called the police.

But oh wait the problem is what feminists call "rape" would be laughed out of all courts.

Pro-tip. If the guy you met at the frat party asked you to go to his room alone it probably isn't so he can show you his magic cards.

 

[HumblePie]

Its called the police.

But oh wait the problem is what feminists call "rape" would be laughed out of all courts.

Pro-tip. If the guy you met at the frat party asked you to go to his room alone it probably isn't so he can show you his magic cards.

Until recently, many campuses had agreements with police departments to allow for self policing of campus crimes short of murder. Which meant many colleges could sweep under the rug many crimes that happened on their campus if they so chose to do it.

 

[nehalem256]

Until recently, many campuses had agreements with police departments to allow for self policing of campus crimes short of murder. Which meant many colleges could sweep under the rug many crimes that happened on their campus if they so chose to do it.

Funny because liberals want colleges to be the ones investigating sexual assaults because then they can punish men using "preponderance of the evidence" standards that would never fly in a real court.

Under President Obama, the issue has drawn increased scrutiny. This year, Obama named a White House task force to study how to combat campus sex assault. His administration published a list of dozens of colleges under federal investigation for potentially mishandling sexual violence reports in violation of Title IX. The number listed, 55 on May 1, has grown to 76 as of Wednesday. The administration also told schools in 2011 that they should rely on a standard known as “preponderance of the evidence” to decide their sexual violence cases.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...bb3c6a-1d72-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html

And continuing:

In July, three mothers announced an organization that will stand for due process in sexual misconduct cases on college campuses. Among the founders of Families Advocating for Campus Equality is Allison Strange, mother of the former Auburn student accused of misconduct, and Sherry Warner-Seefeld, mother of a man kicked out of the University of North Dakota in 2010 after what he called a false allegation of sex assault. The man was never charged with a crime. A year later, the university reversed its sanctions against him after an appeal pointed out that authorities had issued a warrant for the arrest of his accuser on suspicion of making a false report to police.

Seems pretty damning of the school to me. Though not in the way you seem to be claiming.

 

[HumblePie]

Nice try to turn this into a partisan issue.

I have no clue what some categories of people are trying to do. There are several articles on NPR, time, and other news outlets talking about the current problem of sexual assault handling and reporting on college campuses. Namely the vast majority of college campuses "handle" any sexual assault report on campus only, never involve police, and rarely do any investigative work into any assault report made.

That is not to say that there isn't aberrations like the story you posted or like the Duke Lacross team had to endure. Bad shit happens, but those are outliers and not a widespread problem.

 

[nehalem256]

Nice try to turn this into a partisan issue.

I have no clue what some categories of people are trying to do. There are several articles on NPR, time, and other news outlets talking about the current problem of sexual assault handling and reporting on college campuses. Namely the vast majority of college campuses "handle" any sexual assault report on campus only, never involve police, and rarely do any investigative work into any assault report made.

That is not to say that there isn't aberrations like the story you posted or like the Duke Lacross team had to endure. Bad shit happens, but those are outliers and not a widespread problem.

And there are no doubt plenty of articles about the Gender Wage gap issue too.

The campus sexual assault problem is likewise nothing more than leftist propaganda.

As I said leftists, such as the Obama administration, want colleges to be handling "sexual assaults" because they can use extremely low standards of evidence.

Universities have little business investigating rape. If you are raped go to the police.

 

[HumblePie]

And there are no doubt plenty of articles about the Gender Wage gap issue too.

The campus sexual assault problem is likewise nothing more than leftist propaganda.

As I said leftists, such as the Obama administration, want colleges to be handling "sexual assaults" because they can use extremely low standards of evidence.

Universities have little business investigating rape. If you are raped go to the police.

Uhh no, because there is a few more hard statistic backing up the lack of follow through on college "policing" of sexual assault allegations compared to the wage gap issue. Those espousing the wage gap issue tend to use the general "average" of all men versus all women which is a stupid number to use. That shows a horrible agenda for anyone using that as a baseline for argument.

College sexual assault problems are quite a bit different which is why it is reaching national attention and possibly legal changes to how colleges are allowed to police.

Seriously, any serious crime allegation committed on a college campus or from one college student to another should be automatically sent to police for investigation. That should be the end of it.

 

[nehalem256]

Uhh no, because there is a few more hard statistic backing up the lack of follow through on college "policing" of sexual assault allegations compared to the wage gap issue. Those espousing the wage gap issue tend to use the general "average" of all men versus all women which is a stupid number to use. That shows a horrible agenda for anyone using that as a baseline for argument.

College sexual assault problems are quite a bit different which is why it is reaching national attention and possibly legal changes to how colleges are allowed to police.

Disturbingly the sexual assault statistics are actually more agenda driven.

None of this crisis response occurs, of course—because the crisis doesn’t exist. During the 1980s, feminist researchers committed to the rape-culture theory had discovered that asking women directly if they had been raped yielded disappointing results—very few women said that they had been. So Ms. commissioned University of Arizona public health professor Mary Koss to develop a different way of measuring the prevalence of rape. Rather than asking female students about rape per se, Koss asked them if they had experienced actions that she then classified as rape. Koss’s method produced the 25 percent rate, which Ms. then published.

Koss’s study had serious flaws. Her survey instrument was highly ambiguous, as University of California at Berkeley social-welfare professor Neil Gilbert has pointed out. But the most powerful refutation of Koss’s research came from her own subjects: 73 percent of the women whom she characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped. Further—though it is inconceivable that a raped woman would voluntarily have sex again with the fiend who attacked her—42 percent of Koss’s supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

Seriously, any serious crime allegation committed on a college campus or from one college student to another should be automatically sent to police for investigation. That should be the end of it.

Which is of course exactly the opposite of what most of those crying about campus sexual assault epidemic want.

Police require actual evidence of a crime. The Obama administration instead pushed for colleges to do adjudication in matters of campus sexual assaults.

 

[Victorian Gray]

From the linked article,




Nor will it ever be equalized.

I am fencing in a 1/2 acre for a new chicken yard. The corner post are culled telephone post. Some of the post weigh in excess of 100+ pounds. There is no way my wife can handle telephone poles cut into 8 foot lengths, set them in the holes, then bearhug them and move the poles around.

How about I do the dishes and my wife builds the N and X braces to the yard chicken yard? She would do good to drive 1 t-post in 100 degree heat, much less dozens of them.

As with real life, I handle the dangerous work outside, running power tools, using chainsaw, operating the tractor,,,, while my wife handles the inside work. My wife refuses to operate a skil saw. She has told me straight up that if I want my clothes washed and my food cooked, I will be the one using the saw.

If a feminist is upset about that, then come on over help me clear a fence row with a stihl chainsaw. I want to see a feminist in August, heat index of 110, using a chainsaw, setting corner post and driving t-post. After we get done with that we will start running fence.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Its called the police.

But oh wait the problem is what feminists call "rape" would be laughed out of all courts.

Pro-tip. If the guy you met at the frat party asked you to go to his room alone it probably isn't so he can show you his magic cards.

Certainly seems like you would know.

 

[irishScott]

I can see this is quickly turning into a nice sexist rant fest, but I'll add my experience:

I have a BS and MS in Mechanical Engineering, my wife only has a BS in Mechanical Engineering, both 30. She started out making 8K/yr less than me. Now she is making more than 4K/yr more than I do, even though my salary has gone up ~50% in 7 years.

I've met just as many men that will let companies walk all over them as women. At my first job I worked with men with my exact background but 5 years of experience making 10K/yr less than me, 7 years later they still work for that shit hole. All the women I directly worked with there either got promoted or left.

Pretty much this. I'll just add that most companies nowadays have zero loyalty to their employees and will not appreciate nor expect any loyalty in return. They want the most employee for the least money, so many unofficially take advantage of womens' more cooperative (in general) natures and low-ball them hard in salary negotiations. Not fair, but it makes good business sense.

 

[HumblePie]

Disturbingly the sexual assault statistics are actually more agenda driven.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html



Which is of course exactly the opposite of what most of those crying about campus sexual assault epidemic want.

Police require actual evidence of a crime. The Obama administration instead pushed for colleges to do adjudication in matters of campus sexual assaults.

You seriously like to a horrible blog post from 2008 at your evidence that it's a myth??? holy shit.

Report rapes would require a immediate rape test kit which would test for dna as well as the presence of rape drugs like GHB. Of which would be required when filing a police report. I have no idea what you think the "agenda" is trying to do, but it's opposite of what you state. Again go look at the RECENT NPR, times, and other news articles stating the push for automatic police reporting on any serious crimes at colleges to include rape crimes.

 

[nehalem256]

You seriously like to a horrible blog post from 2008 at your evidence that it's a myth??? holy shit.

Horrible because it disagrees with you?

How about the DOJ?

The Bureau of Justice Statistics' "Violent Victimization of College Students" report tells a different and more plausible story about campus culture. During the years surveyed, 1995-2002, the DOJ found that there were six rapes or sexual assaults per thousand per year. Across the nation's four million female college students, that comes to about one victim in forty students. Other DOJ statistics show that the overall rape rate is in sharp decline: since 1995, the estimated rate of female rape or sexual assault victimizations has decreased by about 60 percent.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...istics-dont-back-up-claims-about-rape-culture

Report rapes would require a immediate rape test kit which would test for dna as well as the presence of rape drugs like GHB. Of which would be required when filing a police report. I have no idea what you think the "agenda" is trying to do, but it's opposite of what you state. Again go look at the RECENT NPR, times, and other news articles stating the push for automatic police reporting on any serious crimes at colleges to include rape crimes.

So you complain about my source but don't provide any of your own?

Also, the Washington Post disagrees with you as I pointed out earlier.

Under President Obama, the issue has drawn increased scrutiny. This year, Obama named a White House task force to study how to combat campus sex assault. His administration published a list of dozens of colleges under federal investigation for potentially mishandling sexual violence reports in violation of Title IX. The number listed, 55 on May 1, has grown to 76 as of Wednesday. The administration also told schools in 2011 that they should rely on a standard known as “preponderance of the evidence” to decide their sexual violence cases.

The Obama administration has pushed for colleges to become more involved in adjudicating rape, not less.

 

[Veliko]

Nor will it ever be equalized.

I am fencing in a 1/2 acre for a new chicken yard. The corner post are culled telephone post. Some of the post weigh in excess of 100+ pounds. There is no way my wife can handle telephone poles cut into 8 foot lengths, set them in the holes, then bearhug them and move the poles around.

How about I do the dishes and my wife builds the N and X braces to the yard chicken yard? She would do good to drive 1 t-post in 100 degree heat, much less dozens of them.

As with real life, I handle the dangerous work outside, running power tools, using chainsaw, operating the tractor,,,, while my wife handles the inside work. My wife refuses to operate a skil saw. She has told me straight up that if I want my clothes washed and my food cooked, I will be the one using the saw.

If a feminist is upset about that, then come on over help me clear a fence row with a stihl chainsaw. I want to see a feminist in August, heat index of 110, using a chainsaw, setting corner post and driving t-post. After we get done with that we will start running fence.

What are you blathering on about? You realise that men can be feminists, yes?

Once again you woefully misunderstand the very subject that you feel so strongly about.

 

[OverVolt]

What are you blathering on about? You realise that men can be feminists, yes?

Once again you woefully misunderstand the very subject that you feel so strongly about.

I had a sociology teacher who said it dawned on her one day the irony of her boyfriend reading feminism books upstairs while she scrubbed the bathtub like she always did and he talked about equality all the time but she did most of the cleaning anyway because she thought he sucked at it.

Dunno... reading the Second shift or something. Not a bad book really.