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Why do weak people always turn to God?

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Originally posted by: Kasper4christ
if you'll look, it wasn't the knowledge that made man (and woman of course) sinful
it was the disobing of Gods word
He told them not to do something, and they did it anyway
what do you do to children who disobey?
when you tell them, not to stick there hand on the stove, knowing that it'll hurt,
if the child trusts you, it'll listen and leave the stove alone
if not, the mistake will have been made, and knowledge learned
just becuase you learned something doesn't nuliffy you disobeying,
the damage has already been done, sin...
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1) Given: God is omniscient.
2) Man disobeyed God's word.
3) Therefore, God knew that Man would disobey. If he didn't, then he's not omniscient.

Since God knows everything, he certainly knows how Man will react in any given situation. Knowing full well that Man would stray, God gave him the opportunity to stray, then punished him for it. Nice guy.
 
Originally posted by: KoolAidKid
Since God knows everything, he certainly knows how Man will react in any given situation. Knowing full well that Man would stray, God gave him the opportunity to stray, then punished him for it. Nice guy.
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Yet it was man's choice to stray...God knew, but man did it...Plus, if man hadn't strayed, then there would be no sin...If that hadn't happened, then Jesus wouldn't have needed to come...Then there would be no Christianity, and we wouldn't be arguing...Plus, if man hadn't strayed, then everyone would know that God is the Creator...again, no debate! 😉

 
Originally posted by: Orsorum
(and which you're not explaining according to the rules of logic, you're just making assertions)
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There are some thing logic can't explain...You can't explain something that was here before time...God is INFINITE and we have FINITE minds...we can't understand...you take it on faith...

 
Originally posted by: MichaelD
I don't look down on the guy that worships trees...that's his bag. I worship nothing and nobody/nothing. I fly my own course.
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It sounds to me you look down on those who believe in a god though. 😕
 

1) Given: God is omniscient.
2) Man disobeyed God's word.
3) Therefore, God knew that Man would disobey. If he didn't, then he's not omniscient.

Since God knows everything, he certainly knows how Man will react in any given situation. Knowing full well that Man would stray, God gave him the opportunity to stray, then punished him for it. Nice guy.[/quote]

Or you could look at this opportunity as the ultimate act of love, the way parents have to show their love by letting their children go and make their own decisions and mistakes, or the way we have to unselfishly let go of the dead or the dying, etc. Let them make their own decisions, and try to catch them when they fall (not the dead 😉 ).

Maybe we aren't punished, but we punish ourselves. But in either case, what was our punishment for original sin, anyhow? Is it the strength of the human spirit that this athiests have been vaunting in this thread? Doesn't sound so bad to me.

J.
 
Even though I'm an agnostic, I see the benefit of people believing in God. Religion brings people together and it does give people hope. Religion also creates the will for most people to continue living. The belief in heaven and hell also creates some level of law and order, the belief that that one will go to hell because of the consequence of their actions repels them from doing ?wrong?. However, religion also causes apartheid and prejudice, however that is usually caused by the people that rule the land. Mainly religion is used to answer questions that people do not know the answer to.
 
Originally posted by: cuomoj

1) Given: God is omniscient.
2) Man disobeyed God's word.
3) Therefore, God knew that Man would disobey. If he didn't, then he's not omniscient.

Since God knows everything, he certainly knows how Man will react in any given situation. Knowing full well that Man would stray, God gave him the opportunity to stray, then punished him for it. Nice guy.
Click to expand...

Or you could look at this opportunity as the ultimate act of love, the way parents have to show their love by letting their children go and make their own decisions and mistakes, or the way we have to unselfishly let go of the dead or the dying, etc. Let them make their own decisions, and try to catch them when they fall (not the dead 😉 ).
[/quote]

In this case "catch[ing] them when they fall" equates to casting them out of Eden and taking away their immortality. This doesn't sound particularly loving to me, especially since God already knew how the episode was going to turn out.
 
I wonder. I write a story on a stone tablet about a fat girl and a fat guy that ate too much in the Garden of Olives. I cast them out into the streets and they lost weight. Hide my story in a cave in some mountain so it can be discovered by some future generation (human, alien, animals or whatever race). I wonder if I will be hailed as the God of weight loss.

😛 I know Im an idiot.
 
Originally posted by: MySoSReligion changes few from bad to god.
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Why do weak people turn to God? Because to turn to God, you must become weak. A person must see that he not strong to be good, and therefore see goodness as external, i.e. in a wholly other God. Religion does not turn a person from bad to good, but through it God weakens him by revealing him as bad, and promises a goodness as a gift.
 
Originally posted by: situman
I wonder. I write a story on a stone tablet about a fat girl and a fat guy that ate too much in the Garden of Olives. I cast them out into the streets and they lost weight. Hide my story in a cave in some mountain so it can be discovered by some future generation (human, alien, animals or whatever race). I wonder if I will be hailed as the God of weight loss.

😛 I know Im an idiot.
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heh, well two thousand years ago u mighta been. no mass media then, ignorance abound. hell, even now with our mass media and freedom to access loads of info there are people who believe nutty things.. not hard to imagine how people could believe anything back then.
 
Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Originally posted by: MySoS
LMFAO more xtian BS. The day the world is purged of your kind of thinking will be the greatest day of all.
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I find it interesting that in the beginning of this thread, you apologized for being rude...Now, you celebrate the day that any religion is purged...Pfft...yeah, athiest are REAL tolerant...so just because we believe in SOMETHING when you believe in NOTHING means we should be wiped out? You will never wipe out religion...It's been around since the start of time...Too many people believe in something...How does this sound? "LMFAO to more athiest BS. The day the world is purged of your kind of thinking will be the greatest day of all." Hmm...Sounds the same...
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There is a good interance and bad intolerance. Intolence I show is good, while the intolerance in religion is bad. I have already explained this. My kind of thinking better man kind thus it would be a terrible thing for it to die off, but the christian/religious kind of thinking only harms the world and brings humanity down. Thus when your kind of god beliefe is purged from the world, humanity will be elevated.
 
Originally posted by: MySoS
There is a good interance and bad intolerance. Intolence I show is good, while the intolerance in religion is bad. I have already explained this. My kind of thinking better man kind thus it would be a terrible thing for it to die off, but the christian/religious kind of thinking only harms the world and brings humanity down. Thus when your kind of god beliefe is purged from the world, humanity will be elevated.
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Hmm...not seeing the proof that your way is better...not seeing how religion bring humanity down...

 
Originally posted by: KoolAidKid
Originally posted by: Kasper4christ
if you'll look, it wasn't the knowledge that made man (and woman of course) sinful
it was the disobing of Gods word
He told them not to do something, and they did it anyway
what do you do to children who disobey?
when you tell them, not to stick there hand on the stove, knowing that it'll hurt,
if the child trusts you, it'll listen and leave the stove alone
if not, the mistake will have been made, and knowledge learned
just becuase you learned something doesn't nuliffy you disobeying,
the damage has already been done, sin...
Click to expand...

1) Given: God is omniscient.
2) Man disobeyed God's word.
3) Therefore, God knew that Man would disobey. If he didn't, then he's not omniscient.

Since God knows everything, he certainly knows how Man will react in any given situation. Knowing full well that Man would stray, God gave him the opportunity to stray, then punished him for it. Nice guy.
Click to expand...

God still gives us the free will to make our own choices, KoolAidKid. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. God knows us, and yet he does not bend us to his will - it is a matter of free will.
 
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." -Philippians 4:13
 
Or you could look at this opportunity as the ultimate act of love, the way parents have to show their love by letting their children go and make their own decisions and mistakes, or the way we have to unselfishly let go of the dead or the dying, etc. Let them make their own decisions, and try to catch them when they fall (not the dead ).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In this case "catch[ing] them when they fall" equates to casting them out of Eden and taking away their immortality. This doesn't sound particularly loving to me, especially since God already knew how the episode was going to turn out.
Text
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My whole point was that we didn't get cast out, we checked out. That's what you're doing in choosing athiesm, or what I'm doing whenever I hurt someone. As to losing our immortality, the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is central to Christianity and elsewhere. The body is only of secondary importance. The idea here is that all was not lost.

The fact that God knew this would happen is a tough nut to crack, and would make an interesting discussion in its own right.

J.
 
After reading this thread over and thinking about the things I said. I realized I went overboard with many of my comments. You are right everyone should have every right to worship as they wish. I have come to realize that my comments about purging the world of Christians, Jews, and other religion believers was similar to the thinking of Nazi Germany. Freedom of religion is a fundamental one, and I shouldn't have spoken out against it. In the end I would like to apologize to any who found what I said offensive.
 
I think that the resurrection is a central doctrine, but the immortality of the soul is not. In the fall all goodness was lost and it is only through grace that we can receive eternal life rather than the wages of sin which is death.
 
Originally posted by: MySoS
After reading this thread over and thinking about the things I said. I realized I went overboard with many of my comments. You are right everyone should have every right to worship as they wish. I have come to realize that my comments about purging the world of Christians, Jews, and other religion believers was similar to the thinking of Nazi Germany. Freedom of religion is a fundamental one, and I shouldn't have spoken out against it. In the end I would like to apologize to any who found what I said offensive.
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You said that earlier before you went on your flamefest...
O well, better late than never. :beer:
 
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