Why do we still have umpires calling balls and strikes?

[zinfamous]

Holy shit, the technophobia exhibited by people on a tech forum never ceases to amaze me.

The umpires are faster and better? Bull fucking shit. Maybe if you're comparing it to the weakass buster replay shit baseball uses (which is mostly shit in large part because it is too relying on dumbshit humans) then sure. We absolutely have the technology to make it faster and more accurate.

Not only that but the people acting like this will kill the sanctity of baseball...JHumeC. Any such sanctity is long dead and gone and frankly never existed (hey, you remember how they used to deliberately ban certain races from playing?).

But getting rid of refs will ruin things because then fans won't have anyone to drunkenly blame for their team's failures.

Sanctity? I dont' give a shit about that. Guess what: i also don't give a shit about steroids, and think Bonds and McGuire should be first ballot HoF> it's criminal that they aren't?

Cheating? debatable but even so: IDGAS.

Now put me in your box and smoke me!

 

[Darwin333]

Which is fine, really. One thing that would have to happen in the horrible hell that this enterprise is turned over to robots, is that we would need to add a shitload of asterisks to the record books, or just create an entirely new record book that separates the eras.

Honestly, how would one fairly judge hitters and especially pitchers between both eras?

Wait, your entire argument is based upon the fact that both hitters and pitchers being judged absolutely fairly today might screw up the records of players who were judged unfairly years ago?

 

[Darwin333]

BTW, since the relatively recent advent of technology tracking the pitches absurdly accurately it has been proven that catchers make more of a difference if a ball (within a smallish zone outside of the plate) is called a strike than a particular umpire. So it's not even the umpire that's adding this so called "human element", it's the catcher "framing" the ball in a lot of cases. We teach our catchers to do this just like everyone else does, other than blocking/catching wild pitches its the best skill a catcher can possess. I'd take a catcher that can frame a pitch like a master over one that could throw a dart to second from her knees any day. That skill is quite literally fooling the fucking umpire! There is the human element you are all talking about. A great pitcher catching the corner of the plate right above the batters knees is called a ball because the catcher can't properly trick the umpire but an obvious ball being called a strike because the catcher can fool the umpire.

If that's what yall really want to argue to keep can't we at least have some fun with it? Make them chug a pitcher of beer and spin around 5 times before the first inning? 2 big ass bong hits before the start of the second? Tequila in the 3rd? That's some human element to the game and the results wouldn't change that much. Fuck all that "fair" shit.

 

[Darwin333]

So a great example of why we need automated balls and strikes happened tonight. Top of the 9th, Blue Jays batting, runners on 1st and 3rd, 1 out. Ben Revere at the plate, 2-1 count. Ump completely screws Revere with just an awful strike 2 call on a ball that is WAY outside (it's the 4th pitch on the picture):

Instead of a 3-1 count, Revere now has a 2-2 count, which obviously changes everything. Now, I'm not saying Revere is going to beat Wade Davis here, but there's an incredible difference between a 3-1 count and a 2-2 count. Of course Revere struck out on the next pitch.

That's my entire point. 3-1 lets him potentially "sit" on the next pitch or swing if he really likes it. When you have 2 strikes on you and the ump just called an obvious ball a strike you have to "protect the plate" which basically means you have to swing at anything that is even remotely close to the strike zone. If it's in the strike zone you try to get a hit and if its not you try to foul it off and get another pitch. Instead of the pitcher having to be perfect in that particular situation the batter does even though the pitcher threw a bad pitch. I've seen it the other way around thousands of times but if we have the ability to prevent that shit from happening then we should.

But we really aren't talking about the main cause of all the bad calls the ump makes and that is the catchers "framing" the ball. Do you really think that ump saw the exact moment that 90mph ball crossed the plate? Can a math nerd please tell us exactly how many fractions of a second a ball traveling even 70mph will be in the actual strike zone?

 

[darkswordsman17]

BTW, since the relatively recent advent of technology tracking the pitches absurdly accurately it has been proven that catchers make more of a difference if a ball (within a smallish zone outside of the plate) is called a strike than a particular umpire. So it's not even the umpire that's adding this so called "human element", it's the catcher "framing" the ball in a lot of cases. We teach our catchers to do this just like everyone else does, other than blocking/catching wild pitches its the best skill a catcher can possess. I'd take a catcher that can frame a pitch like a master over one that could throw a dart to second from her knees any day. That skill is quite literally fooling the fucking umpire! There is the human element you are all talking about. A great pitcher catching the corner of the plate right above the batters knees is called a ball because the catcher can't properly trick the umpire but an obvious ball being called a strike because the catcher can fool the umpire.

If that's what yall really want to argue to keep can't we at least have some fun with it? Make them chug a pitcher of beer and spin around 5 times before the first inning? 2 big ass bong hits before the start of the second? Tequila in the 3rd? That's some human element to the game and the results wouldn't change that much. Fuck all that "fair" shit.

This. Hell a fucking ump can't even actually see the fucking ball properly when it is in the area that he's suppose to be judging it on. The system is inherently flawed before we even get to the utter failure that is humans with regards to spatial placement in a very short period of time.

But but but that's the human element they want. They want to bitch and moan about flopping but they want fooling the refs/ump to be an inherent part of every single play in baseball.

 

[zinfamous]

Wait, your entire argument is based upon the fact that both hitters and pitchers being judged absolutely fairly today might screw up the records of players who were judged unfairly years ago?

um, no?

It just means that you now have differentiate the quality of pitching and hitting as you can't directly compare from era to era. We already do it, to some degree, with pre and post deadball.

I could be exaggerating a bit, sure, because those changes are arguably far more drastic when it comes to stats than if we had soulless robots, lead by tech jerk assholes hijacking our game.

 

[Phoenix86]

Which is fine, really. One thing that would have to happen in the horrible hell that this enterprise is turned over to robots, is that we would need to add a shitload of asterisks to the record books, or just create an entirely new record book that separates the eras.

Honestly, how would one fairly judge hitters and especially pitchers between both eras?

You just said the difference would be minimal, now it's so significant it would require a denotation in the books?

If it's that significant, it should be implemented ASAP. No questions asked.

Do we denote the power hitting 'roid era too? :whiste:

 

[cubby1223]

Which is fine, really. One thing that would have to happen in the horrible hell that this enterprise is turned over to robots, is that we would need to add a shitload of asterisks to the record books, or just create an entirely new record book that separates the eras.

Honestly, how would one fairly judge hitters and especially pitchers between both eras?

Do you even understand the history of baseball? You haven't once laid out an actual defense for what is better with umpires calling balls and strikes.

 

[Darwin333]

um, no?

It just means that you now have differentiate the quality of pitching and hitting as you can't directly compare from era to era. We already do it, to some degree, with pre and post deadball.

I could be exaggerating a bit, sure, because those changes are arguably far more drastic when it comes to stats than if we had soulless robots, lead by tech jerk assholes hijacking our game.

So you are more concerned with the people keeping and recording the stats, sometimes making the stats as non-players, than the players actually making the stats? Gotcha!

I've got absolutely nothing more to argue with your stance. I think it should be the players making the stats and you think it should be some twisted combination of players plus a big ass dash of non-players throwing in some extra "human element" making the stats. You care about how it was done in the past while I care about it being done right. We are at an impasse, every bit of logic says that I am right but you are quite literally arguing the point of wrong calls being acceptable. I have a hard time understanding why you are arguing so much for wrong to be completely acceptable.

In what other profession do we argue to keep "wrong" in when we have the ability to implement technology to make "right" a fuckload more probable. If ATC controllers were allowed to get as many calls wrong as umpires we'd have planes crashing daily but holy shit some technology comes along that might take those bad calls out of the picture and fuck that shit!

One question, why do you want bad calls that change games instead of simply letting the best players win?

ETA: Wouldn't it be nice that at least going forward the record books could say for an absolute fact that every strike was actually a strike and every ball was actually a ball? Instead of some old guys interpretation of a 1/1000th of a second (not sure, math nerds help me out) point of view and hoping like hell he didn't blink or have any sand in his eye or forgot to bring his seeing eye dog, etc... FFS I could argue your exact point of why not let chimps ump the damn game, at least that would truly be entertaining.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Both side can use this in their argument:

Joe West

 

[1sikbITCH]

Holy shit, the technophobia exhibited by people on a tech forum never ceases to amaze me.

The umpires are faster and better? Bull fucking shit. Maybe if you're comparing it to the weakass buster replay shit baseball uses (which is mostly shit in large part because it is too relying on dumbshit humans) then sure. We absolutely have the technology to make it faster and more accurate.

Not only that but the people acting like this will kill the sanctity of baseball...JHumeC. Any such sanctity is long dead and gone and frankly never existed (hey, you remember how they used to deliberately ban certain races from playing?).

And "it'll get rid of the human element"? What the fuck? Seriously WHAT THE FUCK kind of logic is that? No one is saying replace the players with robots (actually I am calling for that now, it'd be monumentally more entertaining to me personally, especially with robots right now, where we'll get all manner of hilarity from them not operating perfectly well). The human element should come from the competitors, not their tools. Why do we allow them to have bats? Fuck that they should have to hit with their bare arms. And gloves? Just more pussification of America bullshit! If you can't barehand catch you don't deserve to be playing.

But getting rid of refs will ruin things because then fans won't have anyone to drunkenly blame for their team's failures.

Let em bitch, they'll still watch.
They have effectively castrated NFL football into girl's powder puff and yet the revenues have never been higher. People cry about rule changes and then go to the game anyhow.

 

[BoomerD]

Tracking the ball is easy, but in football it's not just where is the ball it's where was the ball when the player was down. Or does the player have control of the ball. So along with a ball tracking system you also need to track when a player is down and detrrmine if they have control of the ball.

Dude...do you even read?

And...along the same lines, the NFL and even college football fields should have RFID trackers planted in the turf at 1" x 1" spacing...the football should have RFID transmitters in them, at each end and around the center of the ball. Every player should have RFID transmitters in his uniform and in his shoes.

They call it a game of inches...yet spotting the ball is random as hell much of the time. How the fuck can they measure 10 yards with the chains when the actual spot is arbitrary?
Eliminate the human element in referring and umpiring the games. Leave the players as the human elements.

 

[brianmanahan]

also we should replace all the players with robots

 

[Phoenix86]

Dude...do you even read?

They'd have to wear dozens of sensors. Think about all the things that constitute being down by contact. Knee, ass, thigh, elbow, hips, shoulder, back, lower legs, forearms... For the football you'd need about 6 sensors. All of which move.

Baseball it's a fixed width/depth with slightly variable height and a round ball.

 

[brianmanahan]

and then we could replace the mascots with robots

 

[artemicion]

ESPN, and by extension MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL would lose a crap ton of money if they made sports too precise. I mean, think about the flurry of Internet activity when the umps blew the illegal bat call against the Seahawks earlier this year on Monday night against the Lions? Or the Big 12 conspiracy theories when Oklahoma State got that defensive holding call against a DT on a running play, or when Oklahoma State got that phantom first down a week later.

Umps/refs blowing calls probably accounts for 5-10% of ESPN's revenue. ^^

 

[brianmanahan]

shoot, even the batboy would be a robot

 

[cubby1223]

Just tossing this out there...

http://www.thepostgame.com/heroes-v...r-i-used-private-investigators-blackmail-umps

 

[brianmanahan]

eventually even the fans will be robots

 

[A Casual Fitz]

eventually even the fans will be robots

I like where you're going with these.

 

[brianmanahan]

I like where you're going with these.

and the announcers?

yep, robots.

 

[ctbaars]

shoot, even the batboy would be a robot

What? shoot even the batboy?

 

[cubby1223]

and the announcers?

yep, robots.

I would gladly have taken robot announcers over what TBS gave us this year!

Seriously, I would, they were awful.

 

[rh71]

I would gladly have taken robot announcers over what TBS gave us this year!

Seriously, I would, they were awful.

The FOX guys were unbearable this evening. I'm glad they had technical difficulties and now they're piggybacking off some other network. These new guys are much better.

 

[brianmanahan]

The FOX guys were unbearable this evening. I'm glad they had technical difficulties and now they're piggybacking off some other network. These new guys are much better.

i'm still salty about all of bob costas' hate for the indians back in every playoff game of theirs that he has commentated