Why Do We Need An Explicitly Gay Comic Hero?

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
How can you say that infertility of homosexuals is an anecdote?

So you're acknowledging that infertile heterosexual couples are a detriment to society? How about celibate people? Geeks who can't get laid?

Studies at 26 sexually transmitted disease clinics across the country show that the proportion of male gonorrhea victims who are gay increased 74% between 1993 and 1996, researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

So you're citing numbers about people who are sick and homosexual as proof that a homosexual lifestyle is dangerous? If you looked at statistics of heterosexual people with STDs, would you conclude that heterosexual sex was an inherently dangerous lifestyle?

Not to mention that this report shows that the male homosexual rate of AIDS incidence is on the decline since 1996.

In the last two and a half years more than 2000 cases AIDS have been reported from all over the United States and other Western countries. Of all cases reported 71% were reported in young male homosexuals.

Could you provide a link to that statistic? Given that the CDC report linked above documents that many cases for female heterosexual AIDS incidence in 2000 alone, it sounds inaccurate.

In addition AIDS has been reported in women who were sexual partners of men with AIDS.

Which says nothing about the sexual orientation of the men transmitting AIDS. Unless you're insinuating that those gay guys are going around knocking up women because they need sex so badly that they'll even have sex with a member of the opposite gender if they can't find a same-sex partner to do it with.

 

[Moonbeam]

To add to what Feathers has already said:

"How can you say that infertility of homosexuals is an anecdote? This isn't a story that is passed around the campfire just for grins. Can you name a single example of a birth as a result of a homosexual copulation?"

I clearly said that this would be like condemning infertile couples who have sex. The issue is not that homosexuals can't have kids, the issue is that the fact that they can't doesn't mean anything to an objective mind. Any gay who wants to have a kid can make that happen if they want and are fertile. Choosing not to isn't a crime anymore that staying with somebody you love who can't have kids is a crime. You describe a fact, but you attach a phony value judgment to it. There is only the fact. The judgment is produced by your bigotry. You can see that if you are unwilling to condemn straight people who have sex without children. If you are willing to condemn them then we just have one more layer of bigotry to peal. My point is that your case is absurd because it has no logical consistency. Infertility or lack of children as a result of sex is not a crime.

And:

"I fail to understand how you can bury your head in the sand and refute the facts. My statement that homosexuality is unhealthy doesn't make me a bigot, but your position that homosexuality is healthy does prove that you are ignoring the facts."

I did not say that homosexuality is healthy in the sense that it carries no risk. I said it is healthy in that there are people who have a sexual orientation for the same sex that is not of their choice and therefore a part of natural human variation not to be ridiculed, abused or discriminated against by bigots that can't accept that fact because of irrational training and absurd notions handed to them by the greater society no matter how commonly that misunderstanding is. Homosexuality carries great risk, partly because of bigotry like yours, just as being black carries great risk from residual racism and ghettoization. These are not risks that adhere to the fact of orientation, but to ignorance, denial, and other external social factors. Already in Africa any kind of sex is tremendously dangerous. These issues are not due to orientation, but to sexuality generally. These things are obvious if you aren't prejudiced to begin with. They don't occur to a normal mind. If you believe in the bogey man, you jump into bead from across the room. It's just irrationality. Sorry.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

But he continues to blather on about our 'irrational' position without providing any real argument as to why we should be considered irrational. Furthermore, I have presented several rational, logical explanations as to why I feel the way I do against gays.

Says you?

 

[PistachioByAzul]

A gay writer and activist was doing a radio interview about his book on life in the pre-AIDS bathouses, where gay men would have numerous sexual encounters per night. When asked about whether the desire for multiple sexual experiences is characteristic of gay men in general, the author shot back that it is characteristic of all male sexuality, but that straight men are usually constrained by female sexuality. If, he continued, we really want to see what male sexuality is like, uninfluenced by female sexuality, we just need to look at gay men.

The Taoist understands that this characteristic of male sexuality in terms of the properties of masculine energy, or yang. Yang is active, volatile, and expansive. During hetereosexual sex, the woman's yin recieves and balances the man's yang. (There are some men who are more yin and some women who are more yang. According to the Taoists the universe always seeks balance in relationships as in nature.)

From The Multi-Orgasmic Man, good book by the way

I think people are sexual, period. Taoist and Tantric sexual practices are based on cultivating sexual energy and using it to revitalize your overall health as opposed to depleting your resources. People who are so insecure with their sexuality that they have to focus negative energy on homosexuality especially need to practice these techniques.

 

[skyking]

why I feel the way I do against gays

key words here, "feel the way I do against gays."
It is a feeling you have, pure and simple. No amount of rationalization will support it, nor does it need to be supported.
It is his right to feel that way, so quit picking on him Moonie, engineNR9, flavio

 

[SnapIT]

Yeah, but they are a minority, gay pride sucks big hairy ones if you know what i mean, so does black pride, yet idiots like classy supports one but does not support the other...

We are creating minorities within the minorities and nobody is as confused as classy, or Ravin, the comparison between two consenting adults to pedophiles or bestiality shows quite clearly that they have no arguments left..

Tell me idiot Ravin, when did pedophilia become a homosexual trait, to my knowledge it is far more spread by heterosexuals... you are grasping for straws where there are none...

And classy, a man who will fight for the weak... as long as part of the weak is him of course... otherwise, he couldn't care less...

Then classy mentioned men and animals, i guess this is something he knows something about as he did not provide a link of any kind, how are you classy, getting enough sheep these days?

The debate has come from a gay comic hero to be actually debated by two morons who dislike homosexuals and one of the even claims to be mistreated while he thinks homosexuals are not...

Please, someone, PUHLEEEASE tell me that you really weren't thinking about what you were saying...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: EngineNr9
A gay writer and activist was doing a radio interview about his book on life in the pre-AIDS bathouses, where gay men would have numerous sexual encounters per night. When asked about whether the desire for multiple sexual experiences is characteristic of gay men in general, the author shot back that it is characteristic of all male sexuality, but that straight men are usually constrained by female sexuality. If, he continued, we really want to see what male sexuality is like, uninfluenced by female sexuality, we just need to look at gay men.

The Taoist understands that this characteristic of male sexuality in terms of the properties of masculine energy, or yang. Yang is active, volatile, and expansive. During hetereosexual sex, the woman's yin recieves and balances the man's yang. (There are some men who are more yin and some women who are more yang. According to the Taoists the universe always seeks balance in relationships as in nature.)

From The Multi-Orgasmic Man, good book by the way

I think people are sexual, period. Taoist and Tantric sexual practices are based on cultivating sexual energy and using it to revitalize your overall health as opposed to depleting your resources. People who are so insecure with their sexuality that they have to focus negative energy on homosexuality especially need to practice these techniques.

Having studied both, i tend to agree... the energy can be saved for better purposes...

 

[Moonbeam]

skyking, you sound more like a petulant child than a parent. Naturally it is your right to feel that way. You will be spanked and sent to your room, but it IS your right. And you can run away from home. Hey, you could even try telling them not to pick on you. Riiiiight!

 

[skyking]

Sorry moonie, unlike the rest of you, I am just kidding around (wink wink)
Edit: I have enjoyed the intercourse here, it was a fairly good read. But don't let it go to your head

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: skyking
Sorry moonie, unlike the rest of you, I am just kidding around (wink wink)
Edit: I have enjoyed the intercourse here, it was a fairly good read. But don't let it go to your head

HEY, i did not have any intercourse here... did i miss out??????????

 

[skyking]

It's that high usage of the word intercourse, I probably should avoid using it in ATOT.......

 

[Moonbeam]

No problem, skyking, I was just trying to be clear.

 

[skyking]

I especially liked "the casting about for demons", in all the references to bestiality and pedophilia. It seems these aberrations are inexplicably linked to homosexuality, when it comes time to present cases. Anything at all to try and justify the hatred and ignorance, I suppose.

 

[Dari]

Moonbeam, how come you haven't replied to my last post? Is it because I don't warrant the attention anymore? Or is it because your labelling of 'irrational' has been rebuffed by a strong argument(s). Either way, your simple responses to my posts leave me to believe that you have nothing to add to the argument except accusations.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Dari
Moonbeam, how come you haven't replied to my last post? Is it because I don't warrant the attention anymore? Or is it because your labelling of 'irrational' has been rebuffed by a strong argument(s). Either way, your simple responses to my posts leave me to believe that you have nothing to add to the argument except accusations.

Could it be *gasp* because it is pointless, you are a bigot, classy is a bigot, which surprises me, but you still are a bigot, that, and your post was STOOOOPID?

 

[SnapIT]

DP

 

[Dari]

Again with the word 'bigot.' yet you have absolutely no proof that I'm a bigot. Genuis.

 

[Moonbeam]

Dari, Maybe too much of the old male hand grasp is causing you to go blind. Go back and look at your last post before the one you complaine about not getting any attention and read my post which is two posts later. I answered you there behind 'Dari:" I wouldn't dream of leaving you out. You have an exceptionally bad case.

 

[Dari]

Moonbeam, you don't even know the (political) history of homosexuals, yet you post garbage about gay rights and crap. You don't know the perception of gays around the globe, yet you claim that anyone that goes against your logic is a 'bigot.' I was right in calling you a romantic. You take romantic struggles easily without knowing the underlying history. You are a hopeless romantic. Before you even post one more garbage, do a little study. Please.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't know the biological details of feline metabolism either, Dari, but I know cat sh!t when it's on my kitehen floor just by the smell. I don't have to know a damn thing about the history of slavery to recognixe prejudice abainst blacks either. What I do know is that homosexuality is everywhere and wherever you came from too. Are you foreign. Everything about your words smack of some national or racial pride and some elete knowledge it gifted you with. I'm just a regular old American, but if we are going to get into a war of culture morality, I'll go with the liberal tradition in Western Civilization and it's ever increasing movement toward inclucivity. Want to put your cards on the table?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Dari
Moonbeam, you don't even know the (political) history of homosexuals, yet you post garbage about gay rights and crap. You don't know the perception of gays around the globe, yet you claim that anyone that goes against your logic is a 'bigot.' I was right in calling you a romantic. You take romantic struggles easily without knowing the underlying history. You are a hopeless romantic. Before you even post one more garbage, do a little study. Please.

What are you trying to say? You don't make any sense fairly often. What history is important here to you? What does perception around the globe have to do with anything?

 

[Moonbeam]

CHINESE TRADITION OF MALE LOVE
(Abstract, full length text to follow in the fullness of time.)

he Chinese tradition of male love, like the Greek, has its roots in prehistory. One of the Chinese terms for male love ?the pleasures of the bitten peach? dates back to the Zhou dynasty when around 500 BCE the Duke Ling of Wei was offered a peach which Mizi Xia, his favorite, had bitten and found good. There are many tales of the passion of male nobles for each other, which at the time was considered a time-honored tradition. We have no indication whether early Chinese male love was structured along age or gender lines.

The Han dynasty (260 BCE ? 220 CE) continued the tradition of open bi-sexuality, as witnessed by numerous emperors. The story of Emperor Ai and his favourite, Dong Xian, are the source of the other popular term for male love, ?Passions of the cut sleeve.? Dong Xian had fallen asleep across the Emperor?s sleeve. When the Emperor wanted to get up, he cut off the sleeve rather than wake his friend.

This pattern continued throughout the succeeding dynasties, with variations between times of greater tolerance and times of lesser. The relationships were often structured along age lines, though that does not seem to have been a requirement as it was with the Greek or the Japanese traditions.

In more recent times the historical and literary records are more complete, giving us a view of male love in other circles, such as among the scholars and among the common people. In the province of Fujian especially boy marriages were common. The older man would pay a bride price to the parents and take the boy to live with him for a number of years, until that one was old enough to marry.

The tradition of male love survived until the early years of this century, when it succumbed to the general Westernization of culture and morals. At this point male love is frowned upon both in Communist China as well as in Taiwan. It is considered a western import, and against traditional Chinese morals.

Some other history http://www.androphile.org/preview/Culture/here.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Dari, Maybe too much of the old male hand grasp is causing you to go blind. Go back and look at your last post before the one you complaine about not getting any attention and read my post which is two posts later. I answered you there behind 'Dari:" I wouldn't dream of leaving you out. You have an exceptionally bad case.

LOL!

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Dari
Again with the word 'bigot.' yet you have absolutely no proof that I'm a bigot. Genuis.

Genuis? me? ooooh, that is too much, what does it mean?

 

[DanTMWTMP]

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We're tired of heros that kick ass. It's time for heros that prick ass.

Best post ever.

agreed...