Why do we live in a civilization of uncivilized people?

[s0me0nesmind1]

Pretty simple question. I really had to ponder this one from the events today.

So to preface - My father is disabled. He had a stroke approx. ~5 years ago, and typically has to be in a wheelchair or use a walker. My mother wanted to take us all to a ball-game and had some handicapped seating towards the top of the stadium seating obviously to avoid stair use, that is where handicapped seating is located. A bunch of people tend to congregate directly behind us, mostly due to apparent "Standing room only" tickets that they are selling these days, but they always push the limits because there is a line they aren't supposed to cross.

Anyhow, a family of 4 was standing behind us, when one of their kids decided it would be nice to sit on a handicap walker/seat that we had on the side. My spouse turned around and informed the kid that it isn't his and he shouldn't be sitting on it. 5 Seconds later the mom is spouting in my wife's face with the equivalent of "How dare you parent my child. I tell him what to do, not you". She explained that he shouldn't be on that, it is not his. Pretty simple stuff.

At this point she was completely pissy and getting in my wife's face. I turned around and said "Learn to parent your fucking child". At this point since I stepped in (figuratively, I was still sitting in my chair) her husband takes it upon himself to go all ape-shit and into primate dominance monkey mode of spouting in my face of "How dare you talk to my wife like that" 2 inches from my face while spitting. At this point the stadium security noticed and stepped in and told them to gtfo.

As much as I would probably lose a fight if one were to ensue with the toolbag, at the end of the day I really just have better dignity then to start a worthless brawl in a stadium of thousands of people over something so stupid. Regardless of whom wins, the end result is getting kicked out, laughed at, and/or legal issues.

What ever happened to parents that actually felt accountable for their child's actions and apologized for uncivilized behavior? Now they seem to fully embrace it. In the end what really scares me is that all of this falls perfectly in-line with the movie Idiocracy. The intellectually challenged continue to reproduce at astronomical rates, while the people with high or average intellectual talent feel as though they can't afford to sacrifice the time or commitment to having any. I seriously have my doubts for the future of this country.

 

[master_shake_]

junior is perfect and can do no wrong.

it's everyone elses fault he's an asshole because we didn't discipline him.

now he's a ward of the state because some lady thought it was her car even though it was rightfully his he was just taking back his property.

tldr retarded parents.

also snowflakes.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Watch Idiocracy. Read C. M. Kornbluth's "The Little Black Bag" and "The Marching Morons." Look at the Republican presidential nominee.

For every worthwhile person there are two mouth-breathing cretins, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[sdifox]

It's pretty sad really. Zero personal responsibility.

 

[bradly1101]

Alcohol?

 

[Puffnstuff]

There are many contributing factors involved that got us to this place. It all starts when we are young with how we are raised. Once the right stuff is instilled in us it will stay with us throughout our lifetime. People who weren't taught to respect others will not have respect for others and this plays out over and over again every day. I hate disrespectful people myself and I try to do everything I can to always have respect for others but once you encounter people like that who blatantly demonstrate that they will not respect you then they will not receive any from me either.

To me the worst examples of this are on the road. People cutting each other off, not respecting right of way and then go off when their victim(s) protest their actions among other things. Sounds like that family should be rounded up and put on display at the zoo. The primates could then walk around their cage and observe them.

 

[allisolm]

Why do we live in a civilization of uncivilized people?

Let's see. You and your wife begrudged a child an empty seat. You escalated the situation. You dropped f-bombs in front of children and yet claim to have dignity. I'd say the uncivilized label could be applied to all the parties in some degree except for the child. IMO

 

[KMFJD]

Why do we live in a civilization of uncivilized people?

Let's see. You and your wife begrudged a child an empty seat. You escalated the situation. You dropped f-bombs in front of children and yet claim to have dignity. I'd say the uncivilized label could be applied to all the parties in some degree except for the child. IMO

You wouldn't have a problem with a disruptive kid (that you don't know) sitting/using your parents walker/wheelchair? I'd think most people would kindly ask the kid to get off it.

 

[allisolm]

You wouldn't have a problem with a disruptive kid (that you don't know) sitting/using your parents walker/wheelchair? I'd think most people would kindly ask the kid to get off it.

I might have but, since there was no mention of any disruptive child here, only some disruptive adults, then I'm fine with a child sitting there if they're doing no harm.

 

[NetWareHead]

Why do we live in a civilization of uncivilized people?

Let's see. You and your wife begrudged a child an empty seat. You escalated the situation. You dropped f-bombs in front of children and yet claim to have dignity. I'd say the uncivilized label could be applied to all the parties in some degree except for the child. IMO

I don't think there was anything wrong with the wife "begrudging" the child. Its not yours so keep your hands off. She gave the message to the kid who was sitting where he shouldn't have.

The problem is that some people have a psychological issue where criticism (even criticism well-deserved) is interpreted as disrespect and a signal to act like savages in public. I've been in several situations like this myself and am proud to say that I always responded with politeness. Even if I was delivering a sickening rebuttal of the other person's stance/opinion, I never resorted to name calling, profanity or other uncouth behavior and continued to address the other party as Sir or Ma'am. Just stick to the facts and logic.

When you sink down to the level of the other party you argue with, that seeks to undermine your own position and escalates the situation. Yes the other party might have started it, but I believe there was still hope of salvaging the situation had the OP not dropped the F-bomb or even disrespected the mother's parenting style; even if the kid showed clear signs of obviously bad parenting. I might have stood up and repeated to the mother that we don't want the kid touching what is not his and this conversation is over with. We are here to watch a game and not argue, please keep your child in his seat and we wont have any issues between us. Or something similar to that effect...

 

[Mayne]

sadly even though you are in the right...people are jerks and there is no way in hell someone will take your side on a forum..they will pick apart your thread and make you look like the asshole.

 

[zinfamous]

Why do we live in a civilization of uncivilized people?

Let's see. You and your wife begrudged a child an empty seat. You escalated the situation. You dropped f-bombs in front of children and yet claim to have dignity. I'd say the uncivilized label could be applied to all the parties in some degree except for the child. IMO

this. OP responds by yelling at the woman with an f-bomb then is somehow appalled that husband would respond in kind? In these situations, it takes two to tango down this path of public incivility but of course, it is never "my fault" for displaying equal levels of aggression in tossing gasoline on the sputtering flame of indignation.

What is curious to me is why the wife went after the kid for the walker "not being his," rather than "this is our father's walker/sitter because he is disabled, It is not for children to sit on, and he may need it in an emergency situation."

I think OP's wife (and possibly OP) have a short fuse when it comes to "defense of mine," which clouds the more rational ways to approach situations like this.

 

[destrekor]

I might have but, since there was no mention of any disruptive child here, only some disruptive adults, then I'm fine with a child sitting there if they're doing no harm.

The child or parents should ask the owner of the seat, not assume it is fine from the beginning. That child was way out of line in a respectful society and the parents refused to acknowledge this and take affront when called out on it.

 

[destrekor]

I don't think there was anything wrong with the wife "begrudging" the child. Its not yours so keep your hands off. She gave the message to the kid who was sitting where he shouldn't have.

The problem is that some people have a psychological issue where criticism (even criticism well-deserved) is interpreted as disrespect and a signal to act like savages in public. I've been in several situations like this myself and am proud to say that I always responded with politeness. Even if I was delivering a sickening rebuttal of the other person's stance/opinion, I never resorted to name calling, profanity or other uncouth behavior and continued to address the other party as Sir or Ma'am. Just stick to the facts and logic.

When you sink down to the level of the other party you argue with, that seeks to undermine your own position and escalates the situation. Yes the other party might have started it, but I believe there was still hope of salvaging the situation had the OP not dropped the F-bomb or even disrespected the mother's parenting style; even if the kid showed clear signs of obviously bad parenting. I might have stood up and repeated to the mother that we don't want the kid touching what is not his and this conversation is over with. We are here to watch a game and not argue, please keep your child in his seat and we wont have any issues between us. Or something similar to that effect...

Civilized, logical, and calm discussion is not something to expect from cretins (or the inebriated, whom can be incredibly intelligent but by all accounts appear to be cretins).

 

[destrekor]

this. OP responds by yelling at the woman with an f-bomb then is somehow appalled that husband would respond in kind? In these situations, it takes two to tango down this path of public incivility but of course, it is never "my fault" for displaying equal levels of aggression in tossing gasoline on the sputtering flame of indignation.

What is curious to me is why the wife went after the kid for the walker "not being his," rather than "this is our father's walker/sitter because he is disabled, It is not for children to sit on, and he may need it in an emergency situation."

I think OP's wife (and possibly OP) have a short fuse when it comes to "defense of mine," which clouds the more rational ways to approach situations like this.

That part is true - OP's wife wasn't wrong and appeared to be taking a natural affront to this lack of respect by the child and parents. What should have followed was a respectful statement of facts devoid of emotional response. But what followed was the OP jumping in with a more aggressive verbal attack that rightfully escalates the situation in the eyes of the other guy. He wasn't in the wrong, it should have never got to that point. But that doesn't negate the original issue and the correctness of the OP's wife to address it head on.

 

[MongGrel]

sadly even though you are in the right...people are jerks and there is no way in hell someone will take your side on a forum..they will pick apart your thread and make you look like the asshole.

Most of the threads you create are personal blogs that are sadly thought out from the start, trying to look for validation in this one is a poor form.

But enough of that, I'm going off topic on your off topic.

 

[Mayne]

Most of the threads you create are personal blogs that are sadly thought out from the start, trying to look for validation in this one is a poor form.

But enough of that, I'm going off topic on your off topic.

sadly I'm not looking for validation...damnit I wish this was my thread and could of have my first validation.

 

[BUTCH1]

Perhaps OP's wife should have asked the kid's mom to have him get off the seat, that way she could not get pissy with "you don't tell MY kid what to do!" and throwing in an F-bomb like that is always gonna escalate any situation. Young kids tend to plop down anywhere without regards as to who owns it, I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect even though it was wrong.

 

[BUTCH1]

Most of the threads you create are personal blogs that are sadly thought out from the start, trying to look for validation in this one is a poor form.

But enough of that, I'm going off topic on your off topic.

His threads tend to fall apart right from the start, "picking" is not required although we have to amuse ourselves somehow around here!.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

That part is true - OP's wife wasn't wrong and appeared to be taking a natural affront to this lack of respect by the child and parents. What should have followed was a respectful statement of facts devoid of emotional response. But what followed was the OP jumping in with a more aggressive verbal attack that rightfully escalates the situation in the eyes of the other guy. He wasn't in the wrong, it should have never got to that point. But that doesn't negate the original issue and the correctness of the OP's wife to address it head on.

You're both actually missing it. The point of escalation was the retaliation from the kid's mother. She was within inches of my wife's face and was yelling in her face. That is not civilized. What do you expect me to do? Push her away from my wife? The first threat was getting in my wife's face over a non-issue. Period. At no point did I make any threats, I said go parent your fucking child (OH NO! An "F Bomb" ). Essentially saying, screw off - there isn't an issue here. At no point did myself nor my wife run up to them and escalate the issue like both of them did - which was getting in someone's face. At no point did I even stand-up out of my seat.

 

[NetWareHead]

Perhaps OP's wife should have asked the kid's mom to have him get off the seat, that way she could not get pissy with "you don't tell MY kid what to do!" and throwing in an F-bomb like that is always gonna escalate any situation. Young kids tend to plop down anywhere without regards as to who owns it, I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect even though it was wrong.

I have to disagree with this. You address the cause of the problem. The kid, seemingly from the context of this thread, could understand English. Need I look for every kid's parents to ask them to back off or keep their hands to themselves? As long as done respectfully and within reason I don't see what the issue is to address a child directly...

My own parents would have been appalled at the thought of some other parents needing to discipline me. And not for the reason the lady in OP's example became irate for: "you dont tell my child what to do". But instead for the reason that their child behaved out of line and someone had noticed. This was more of an embarrassment that my behavior was bad rather than angry someone parented their child.

 

[Puffnstuff]

we have to amuse ourselves somehow around here!.

Lately with the Mayne multiple times a day new threads the amusement comes quite easily.

 

[zinfamous]

You're both actually missing it. The point of escalation was the retaliation from the kid's mother. She was within inches of my wife's face and was yelling in her face. That is not civilized. What do you expect me to do? Push her away from my wife? The first threat was getting in my wife's face over a non-issue. Period. At no point did I make any threats, I said go parent your fucking child (OH NO! An "F Bomb" ). Essentially saying, screw off - there isn't an issue here. At no point did myself nor my wife run up to them and escalate the issue like both of them did - which was getting in someone's face. At no point did I even stand-up out of my seat.

not sure if you have kids, but even the most disciplined kids will do things like that. Without any of us knowing how this was handled--how your wife delivered her rebuke--I think it's easy for us to assume that the kid's mother interpreted that as more of a threat than a request by your wife. You just don't tell kids to get down or away from something because it isn't theirs; you say something like "Hey pal, could you get down from that? It isn't safe for children and is meant for granddad over here" or something like that. It's usually at this point that 99% of parents will tell the kid to listen to the nice lady, rather than come after the lady for "disciplining their kid."

SO, I can only assume that the kid's mom interpreted this as "un-called for disciplining" rather than a reasonable request, because it was initiated that way. Parents are always highly defensive of their kids

 

[BUTCH1]

I have to disagree with this. You address the cause of the problem. The kid, seemingly from the context of this thread, could understand English. Need I look for every kid's parents to ask them to back off or keep their hands to themselves? As long as done respectfully and within reason I don't see what the issue is to address a child directly...

My own parents would have been appalled at the thought of some other parents needing to discipline me. And not for the reason the lady in OP's example became irate for: "you dont tell my child what to do". But instead for the reason that their child behaved out of line and someone had noticed. This was more of an embarrassment that my behavior was bad rather than angry someone parented their child.

Yea, I see your point, times have certainly changed so I thought it might have been a better workaround even though you're wife did no wrong by asking the kid to get off the chair.

 

[BUTCH1]

not sure if you have kids, but even the most disciplined kids will do things like that. Without any of us knowing how this was handled--how your wife delivered her rebuke--I think it's easy for us to assume that the kid's mother interpreted that as more of a threat than a request by your wife. You just don't tell kids to get down or away from something because it isn't theirs; you say something like "Hey pal, could you get down from that? It isn't safe for children and is meant for granddad over here" or something like that. It's usually at this point that 99% of parents will tell the kid to listen to the nice lady, rather than come after the lady for "disciplining their kid."

SO, I can only assume that the kid's mom interpreted this as "un-called for disciplining" rather than a reasonable request, because it was initiated that way. Parents are always highly defensive of their kids

Yea, good points, we weren't there and how a request like that is asked makes a difference. If OP's wife came across as mean (even though she is right), the delivery can be handled different ways. I tend to be easy when explaining something to someone Else's kid like riding a bike at night without a light can get you ran over by a 3,300lb car.