-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
WHy do we keep going around and around on the WMD issue?
Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
The reason that the issue won't go away is simply because some folks insist on believing that Bush was right, despite abundant and obvious evidence to the contrary. They refuse to admit they've been chumped, and, as a consequence, are still being chumped in a variety of ways.
They pose questions like yours, Riprorin, in a vain and almost pathetic attempt to convince themselves that their faith is justified, that having GWB as Prez relieves them of all responsibility to think, to question, to hold their selected representatives responsible for their words and deeds. They have a tremendous emotional investment in the Bush presidency, and employ Denial as a defense.
I'm starting to regard it as a disease complex, like Alcoholics and Al-Anons, their unwitting enablers. There is, unfortunately, no possible treatment w/o some recognition by the sufferers that they just might have a problem...
They pose questions like yours, Riprorin, in a vain and almost pathetic attempt to convince themselves that their faith is justified, that having GWB as Prez relieves them of all responsibility to think, to question, to hold their selected representatives responsible for their words and deeds. They have a tremendous emotional investment in the Bush presidency, and employ Denial as a defense.
I'm starting to regard it as a disease complex, like Alcoholics and Al-Anons, their unwitting enablers. There is, unfortunately, no possible treatment w/o some recognition by the sufferers that they just might have a problem...
AcidicFury
Golden Member
Riprorin, if the WMDs are in Syria, why didn't we attack them? Simple. Other motives besides WMDs.
It's purely speculation that they don't exist.
Even Kerry had backed away from his ridiculous remarks:
Kerry Concedes 'We May Yet Find' WMDs Just Weeks After Saying Bush 'Misled' About Them
By Jimmy Moore
Talon News
April 30, 2004
SPARTANBURG, SC (Talon News) -- Likely Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry, who has been labeled a "flip-flopper" on a wide variety of issues, has now done so regarding the issue of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Kerry, who in the late 1990s talked about WMDs being present in Iraq and then changed his mind once he began running for president, has been especially adamant in his criticism of President George W. Bush's assertion that WMDs will still be found in Iraq.
"George Bush sold us on going to war with Iraq based on the threat of weapons of mass destruction. But we still haven't found them," Kerry said in a speech earlier this month.
He added at the time, "We were misled about weapons of mass destruction."
In addition, former Democratic presidential candidate and Kerry supporter Howard Dean said the lack of WMDs in Iraq is a scandal for the Bush administration.
"There were no weapons of mass destruction," the former Vermont governor told CNN recently. "This is Bushgate, which is far more serious than Watergate."
However, speaking on MSNBC's "Hardball with Chris Matthews" on Tuesday, Kerry decided to back away from his previous strong stance against WMDs being found.
"It appears, as they peel away the weapons of mass destruction issue -- and we may yet find them," Kerry admitted.
He continued, "Look, I want to make it clear. Who knows if a month from now, three months from now, you find some weapons? You may."
This pronouncement by Kerry came one day after Jordan announced an al Qaeda plan to carry out an attack in Amman with WMDs from Syria using a terrorist trained in Iraq.
It also followed news that a likely WMD plant in Baghdad under the auspices of being a perfume factory suddenly exploded earlier this week when two American troops were investigating.
But in an April 5, 2004 press release posted on the Kerry campaign web site, Kerry asserts that "the President continued to mislead the public about the war in Iraq."
Similarly, in an April 6, 2004 press release posted on the Kerry campaign web site, Kerry claims that Bush "misled the public" about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Copyright © 2004 Talon News -- All rights reserved.
That was hardly your only point. There's nothing wrong with changing your mind, but don't pretend your point was always only a trunk after people have cut off the branches.
The title of the thread was "why do we keep going around and around on the WMD issue." This suggests your point was that we shouldn't worry about the WMD question because they could exist. You also added a rhetorical question about Bush suggesting you think he is / he has acted correctly given the circumstances. Even if one agrees with you with your new point (which the title of the thread certainly doesn't reflect), it says nothing about whether we should discuss WMDs or Bush's behavior.
So say you--but we still have no WsMD, yet the Bush administration has already invaded Iraq--hence making it a moot point.
As for my question: Do you agree that the Bush administration has demonstrably lied several times in their attempt to bring forward evidence of Iraqi WsMD?
No need to agree here in public...
We all know there is only one possible answer that is consistent with the facts. Even though it may not be your answer--
They don't exist, the administration admitted as much when they quietly pulled the
military inspectors out of the country last fall.
Niether. Not with the amount of intelligence we were gathering at the time, and the amount of
intelligence reviews that have gone on since. If even one third the stockpiles that the
administration claimed were there had been moved to a nearby country in the days/weeks
before we invaded, it should have sent up red flags all over the place. We would have noticed.
The same goes double for burying stockpiles in the desert, there would have been sufficient
traces of weapon materials for our trained inspectors to have found them if buried. Or else
they could have checked the records of the UN inspectors to have an idea where to start looking.
The desert isn't as vast as you think, when you bury something you want to get later you have
to leave some signs to lead you back to the site you dug in. And of all the officers and scientist
we were capturing during combat operations, none of them seemed willing to make a deal to even
point in a favorable direction wherein the inspectors might start looking.
There was ample reason to want to give the administration the benefit of the doubt, but even
that was not enough to convince the UN Security Council that Iraq was an imminent threat, especally
since our forces had been in place since the first gulf war to keep the country from advancing WMDs.
No one was willing to believe that any government would willingly throw away several decades of
strategic alliances, political credibility, and international good will on a trumped up charge used to
promote an agenda left over from an previous administration three-terms removed.
First, Saddam was the least "Islamic" of all the nut jobs in the region. And again, we had his country
bottled tight for over a decade and we and the UN were watching him like a hawk.
We however, apparently weren't watching Iran; which later admitted to having their own nuclear
weapons program. Which (compared to Iraq) so far the administration has done nothing about.
We were also not apparently paying attention to North Korea, which claims to not only have
nuclear warheads and missle delivery system powerful enough to strike at
our allies and US assest in the region; but also stated they were willing to use those weapons
if provoked. Which (compared to Iraq) so far the administration has done little about.
Then there is India and Pakistan, which have been on again/ off again on the verge of war for
many years know, only recently both countries admitted to having nuclear programs, and
a willingness to use those programs against each other. Not that we've appear to care
much about what happens half a world away in a country we aren't trying to liberate.
Pakistan also happens to border Afganistan, a country where we were supposed to have a
"number one priority" in hunting down a certain terrorist leader.
Which (compared to Iraq)... yadda yadda yadda...
I'm still waiting for a credible response from President Bush.
As I said, Riprorin,
"There is, unfortunately, no possible treatment w/o some recognition by the sufferers that they just might have a problem..."
Your diversion into Kerry-bashing is a form of Denial... a way of avoiding the truth and the consequences of the almost inevitable recognition that you're fooling yourself... allowing yourself to be used and abused to fulfill some inner need...
"There is, unfortunately, no possible treatment w/o some recognition by the sufferers that they just might have a problem..."
Your diversion into Kerry-bashing is a form of Denial... a way of avoiding the truth and the consequences of the almost inevitable recognition that you're fooling yourself... allowing yourself to be used and abused to fulfill some inner need...
Line 1 in my opening post:
"Just because they haven't been found obviously doesn't mean they don't exist."[/quote]
The rest of your post:
The title of your post:
Are you retracting the message of the rest of your post and thread title? It's fine if you do, but just say so. As it is you are truncating your original post in order to deflect legitimate attacks on your other ideas. Why not address the attacks head on?
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Let's play "What is this post referring to?"
1) Iraq exit strategy
2) Fiscal conservative Republicans
3) Democrats with a coherent message
4) Accurate stories from FOXNews
5) Signs of intelligence (or basic reality testing) in the Bush administration
DealMonkey
Lifer
We should have found the WMDs first and then we could have gone to war if need be. Instead we jumped up and down, made accusations based on zero facts, had Powell go into the U.N. with his dog and pony show. Meanwhile, Bush, Rummy, Cheney and Condi were all making "Kablooooeee!" sound effects on all the cable news networks and talking mushroom clouds.
Even if there were WMDs in Iraq, over the course of the last year, with all of the chaos, they could have easily found their way into the wrong hands. Our invasion could have been a self-fulfilling prophesy. We invaded because we were scared Saddam would hand over the WMDs to some terrorists and yet invading Iraq and deposing Saddam could have caused that very thing to happen.
Just because the terrorists haven't used their Iraqi chemical weapons yet doesn't mean it's not true. 😉
Even if there were WMDs in Iraq, over the course of the last year, with all of the chaos, they could have easily found their way into the wrong hands. Our invasion could have been a self-fulfilling prophesy. We invaded because we were scared Saddam would hand over the WMDs to some terrorists and yet invading Iraq and deposing Saddam could have caused that very thing to happen.
Just because the terrorists haven't used their Iraqi chemical weapons yet doesn't mean it's not true. 😉
Red Dawn
Elite Member
Obviously harder to find than Hussien was.
If there were "Vast Stockpiles" of WMDs then where are the facilities used to make them? If you want to see what "Vast Stockpile of WMDs" and the Facilities to make them look like all you have to do is look at Libya. Nothing like that has been located in Iraq.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
