This is how it is up here, too. If you bid too low you're shit out of luck and still are required to do the job. There is a clause for bids which are obviously way out of the ballpark, in which case the entity requesting bids must ask for confirmation with the bidder that their bid is correct (let's say you bid $220,000 on a job that the engineers estimated at $5,100,000).
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Why do union companies win bids vs non-unions in govt construction contracts?
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This is how it is up here, too. If you bid too low you're shit out of luck and still are required to do the job. There is a clause for bids which are obviously way out of the ballpark, in which case the entity requesting bids must ask for confirmation with the bidder that their bid is correct (let's say you bid $220,000 on a job that the engineers estimated at $5,100,000).
MagnusTheBrewer
IN MEMORIAM
Across the country unfortunately. Even in the "right to work" states, there are many corporations with union food service. If the kick backs are high enough up the food chain it's called "managing resources."
daniel1113
Diamond Member
Winner.
MagnusTheBrewer
IN MEMORIAM
Lol. food service already has the lowest profit margin and ROI of any industry I can think of. The resources that are being "managed" appear to upper management as bonuses for spending 'X' amount in union services. Corporate management all but hangs signs on their offices that say we take bribes.
BlahBlahYouToo
Lifer
even if they did, that was then, this is now.
fucking unions are ruining it for everyone by raising the price of everything due to inflated labor costs. and they breed lazy ass overpaid mofos.
BoomerD
No Lifer
yeah it did. Prior to unionizing, there were 2 classes. The bosses and the workers who made pennies per day with no benefits, 6 and 7 day work weeks, etc.
Unions changed that to give the workers a bigger piece of the pie, better working conditions, benefits, etc.
For those of you who hate unions, why don't you just stop enjoying all the benefits that unions brought to the workplace?
You know, stupid socialist things like:
8 hour work days
Overtime
Paid Holidays
Paid Vacation
Paid Sick Leave
Safe work environment
The list goes on and on and on...
AND, if you REALLY hate unions, be sure to go to work on Labor Day to protest a holiday originally pushed by UNION WORKERS to honor the (mostly union) working men in America.
Your experience is vastly different than mine. I've been on several jobs that were originally awarded to non-union contractors as the low bidders, but who fucked the job up so bad that the awarding authority kicked them off the job and awarded the job to one of the union contractors who had a proven track record.
Brown & Root, (now KBR, Kellogg-Brown and Root, a Halliburton company) is one of the worst companies I've ever been around. It seemed for a while like we were following them...they'd get a job, FUBAR it and get kicked off the project, and we'd get the job to fix and finish right.
zerocool84
Lifer
We needed usions back in the day but now we have laws that protect workers now. All unions do is give low-skilled workers high pay and protect them from getting fired and if they get laid off, keep paying them a stupidly high wage.
BoomerD
No Lifer
And who enforces those laws to protect workers? If you or I complain to the government, do they listen? Do they care? Will your employer have more clout?
Unions and union contracts give the working man some protections against the kinds of abuses that are rampant in non-union construction.
I worked rat for a few years in the Rockies where there wasn't much union work going on. Scams like work 10 hours for 8 hours pay, "Gimme $100 if you want to work overtime this week," no benefits, being pressured to use your health insurance if you get hurt on the job so the work comp insurance rates didn't go up...all very common in the non-union trades.
As a business agent, I used to monitor prevailing wage jobs to be sure the workers actually got paid what their companies claimed they were being paid.
There were problems on nearly every job I audited. Some were "simple administrative errors" that would have screwed the employee out of $10/hr, but some were outright fraud...and we pursued those actively.
One large rat contractor was paying the proper wage to his employees so that his certified payroll was correct...but the employees were required to bring him a "rebate" on their wages. Some only had to give $7/hr, while a couple had to give back as much as $12/hr.
We got the state involved with that and the contractor went to jail...and lost his business license.
You go on almost any union construction job...you'll find VERY FEW slackers not pulling their own weight.
The only time I've seen it in the 22 years I've been in Kahleeforneeya is when it was the bosses son, nephew, cousin, etc.
My union won't tolerate slackers...and if you get fired for being a slacker...they'll investigate, and if the business agent finds that it was a legitimate firing...You may not get dispatched for a couple of months.
We have a reputation to maintain as the best value for your construction dollar...and we defend that reputation very actively.
Unions are every bit as necessary today as they were 100 years ago.
Fenixgoon
Lifer
not that i have much real world experience, being a young whippersnapper of 22 years, but i don't think i've ever heard of engineers being unionized, so from my perspective (as an upcoming engineer) i don't see them as all that necessary. now that rights have been established, the legal system can take care of violations.
taking things to a little extreme, everyone who is not unionized should technically be at the mercy of their employers, but clearly this isn't the case.
why?
Squisher
Lifer
We competed and won every bit of work we did in my union shop. We did it better, more on time, and cheaper than all the other non-union shops.
But, but, but how can that be? We all know that can't be, because we have preconceived notions in our youthful skulls full of pre-emergent pimple matter.
But, but, but how can that be? We all know that can't be, because we have preconceived notions in our youthful skulls full of pre-emergent pimple matter.
Now you have much more experience than me but I have no idea when your 'few years in the Rockies' actually took place so I thought I would say.. I do not believe the problems you mention exist in many parts of the country today. From what I've seen, prevailing wage and labor laws are as strictly enforced by the local L&I as they would be the local union.
I was management an my boss was a slavedriver, willing to cut corners and bend or break rules to screw over employees. But he did not fuck with his manual labor, his electricians who were being watched over by L&I.
RadiclDreamer
Diamond Member
I used to agree with you, but after seeing the UMWA fucking my dad as bad as they did I now believe the unions do nothing today except protect the lazy and ignorant. He was a proud union member for 19 years and 3 months, then when the mine he worked for shut down and nowhere else would hire him because of his health they couldn't even bend the rules and give him the 9 months so he could get full retirement benefits. They pretty much told him tough shit, rules is rules.
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