Why Do They Hate Us?

whyus9

Banned
May 18, 2009
1
0
0
Many Americans don't understand why the people of Mideast hate the US government. This image, which worths a thousand words, tells you why:

BAN

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Your first/last inflammatory post is from Saudi proxy IP address. Your wish is granted. Banned you are.

Harvey
Senior AnandTech Moderator
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
One book that provides a good explanation of why 'they hate the US', why 9/11 happened, is "American's Secret War" by Stratfor (think tank) founder George Friedman.

He includes a great history of US relations there; and a solid layout of many of the complex groups there and their agendas.

On 9/11, he lays out how one faction in the Middle East competing for others in the Middle East tollow them are the radical Muslims - and he lays out their challenges.

Those challenges largey include the feeling among people there that it's hopeless, after the decades under the thumb of foreign powers and foreign-backed regimes.

What they needed was to get people to think that the west can be defeated from preventing them from re-creating the Caliphate. He explains things that shaped opinion there in that direction, from the US not winning in Vietnam, to the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan (they give themselves a lot of credit, undeserved, for the fall of the USSR, but took the lesson that Muslims can beat a superpower), to the US leaving Saddam in power in the first Gulf War.

He explains how what they really needed to sell the people was a big attack against the US - one that targetted its political, economic and miiltary centers.

9/11 wasn't about the US, but rather about the people in the Middle East, Al Queda's attempt to increase their power in the region, They wanted the US to react to 9/11 in a big way and invade a Middle Eastern Nation, he says, which would create a Muslim backlash that would fill their ranks.

I don't have a link to the book's content for the above, but the proluge can be excerpted:

On the morning of September 11, 2001, special operations units of the international jihadist group Al Qaeda struck the United States. In a classic opening attack, they struck simultaneously at the political, military, and financial centers of the United States. The attack on the political centers failed entirely when the aircraft assigned to that mission crashed prematurely in Pennsylvania. The attack on the military center was only partially successful. The aircraft assigned to that target crashed into a section of the Pentagon that had been modernized with fire-resistant materials, which effectively contained the explosion. The planes assigned to attack the U.S. financial center succeeded completely, not only destroying the World Trade Center towers but closing down the financial markets for several days and disrupting the U.S. economy.

The nineteen men who carried out the mission were capable operatives. Their achievement was not taking control of four airliners simultaneously, although that was not a trivial accomplishment. Rather, it was planning, training, and deploying for the operation without ever being detected by American intelligence-or, more precisely, acting in such a way that in spite of inevitable detection, the data never congealed into actionable intelligence. While their military capabilities were enormously inferior to those of the United States-they had to steal an air force-their skills at covert operations were superb.

Al Qaeda had spent years trying to understand how U.S. intelligence worked. On September 9, the Sunday before the attack, Osama bin Laden, by most accounts, placed a phone call to his mother. During the short conversation, Osama told her, in effect, "In two days you're going to hear big news, and you're not going to hear from me for a while." He placed that call on Sunday knowing that it would be intercepted by National Security Agency signal intelligence satellites. He also knew that the intercept-interpret-analyze cycle at the NSA for the region was running at about seventy-two hours. He knew that by the time the phone call was actually listened to and understood, the attack would already have taken place.

This was the real strength of Al Qaeda, a strength that it retains to this day. It understands the craft of intelligence and security and applies it rigorously. But Al Qaeda has another strength. The nineteen men who launched the attack on September 11 were not just prepared to risk their lives. They were prepared to go to their certain deaths and did so exercising discipline and control until the moment they died.

If Al Qaeda consisted of simplistic incompetents, the United States would not be in the global war it is embroiled in today. Fools do not make serious opponents. The challenge posed by Al Qaeda is that they are neither simple nor incompetents. However we judge their beliefs and however we evaluate their morality, the fact is that from a technical standpoint, they proved themselves to be highly competent covert operators.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
They hate us because their Imams tell them to. Government has nothing to do with it, else they'd have changed opinion during Clinton's term as he attempted to do more for the Muslim world than any US president in recent memory.
 

Surfasb

Junior Member
May 13, 2009
4
0
0
They are Islamic extremists. The purpose of their life is hatred. Look at Christian extremists. They bomb abortion clinics, promote racism, and kill in "the name of God." It's just hatred by another name.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.
 

AshPhoenix

Member
Mar 12, 2008
187
0
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.


:thumbsup: I'm Egyptian and I agree with every word. I don't hate American people in general though, just those who support those policies.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.

Yeah, those doggone suicide bombing israelis.

:laugh:
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Oh, bull. There are some legitimate grievances - the West at best looks the other way while their illegitimate governments oppress them because it's more convenient for us that way - but the underlying reason is because dictatorships find it very useful to portray some group of outsiders as a threat to the state and people.

Most people in the Middle East have only television and other easily controlled media to tell them what Westerners are like - so when you throw in "Israel and America why we are so poor!" in with the booze, sex and drugs Hollywood naturally portrays us as all doing, it's easy to see a faceless West as an even greater evil than the evil they know - their leaders.

I think ex-British PM Tony Blair addressed this extremely well in a news conference he did a couple of years ago:

Q: Mr. President, both of you, I'd like to ask you about the big picture that you're discussing.

BLAIR: I don't think it actually has anything to do with a loss of American influence at all. I think we've got to go back and ask what changed policy, because policy has changed in the past few years.

...

And I don't dispute part of the implication of your question at all in the sense that you look at what is happening in the Middle East, and what is happening in Iraq and Lebanon and Palestine, and of course there's a sense of shock and frustration and anger at what is happening, and grief at the loss of innocent lives.

But it is not a reason for walking away. It's a reason for staying the course and staying it no matter how tough it is: because the alternative is actually letting this ideology grip larger and larger numbers of people.

And it is going to be difficult. Look, we've got a problem even in our own Muslim communities in Europe who will half buy into some of the propaganda that's pushed at it - the purpose of America is to suppress Islam; you know, Britain's joined with America in the suppression of Islam.

And one of the things we've got to stop doing is stop apologizing for our own positions. Muslims in America, as far as I'm aware of, are free to worship.

Muslims in Britain are free to worship. We have plural societies.

You know, it's nonsense. The propaganda is nonsense. And we're not going to defeat this ideology until we in the West go out with sufficient confidence in our position and say, This is wrong. It's not just wrong in its methods; it's wrong in its ideas, it's wrong in its ideology, it's wrong in every single wretched reactionary thing about it.

And it will be a long struggle, I'm afraid. But there's no alternative but to stay the course with it. And we will.

We're not an awful people, and the damage we do through indirect support of those ME governments is trifling in comparison to what they do to themselves. Stop apologizing already.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.

Yeah, those doggone suicide bombing israelis.

:laugh:

Uh, ya, it's the tactic that is all that matters. If Israel nuked the entire Middle East, you could make the same 'argument'. Hey, they didn't use suicide bombers, so it's ok.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.

Yeah, those doggone suicide bombing israelis.

:laugh:

Uh, ya, it's the tactic that is all that matters. If Israel nuked the entire Middle East, you could make the same 'argument'. Hey, they didn't use suicide bombers, so it's ok.

Except perhaps, just maybe, the fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians?

Just a little?

 

Titan

Golden Member
Oct 15, 1999
1,819
0
0
Why do they hate us? Simple.

Because we are over there.

How would you like it if some foreigners with superior tanks and planes marched over here to take our corn?

The U.S. hasn't minded it's own business since before WWI.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.

Yeah, those doggone suicide bombing israelis.

:laugh:

Uh, ya, it's the tactic that is all that matters. If Israel nuked the entire Middle East, you could make the same 'argument'. Hey, they didn't use suicide bombers, so it's ok.

Except perhaps, just maybe, the fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians?

Just a little?

Yeah, and israel doesn't give a f*** whether or not they kill civilians. Check out the bloodshed earlier this year. Gotta get in the genocide before Obama takes office, you know. They use the 'hamas hides within their population' excuse. They even use human shields (or at least used to) That plus they control the palestinian territory borders (both in trade and flow of people) and can break their will so easily by forcing hunger upon the population. Israel is worse than an apartheid state. They never learned the lessons of the holocaust.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Atreus21
Originally posted by: Phokus
Because we give billions in military aid to israel who kills and oppresses the palestinians and some feel we support corrupt arab regimes. That, plus our hypocritical foreign policy in the ME doesn't help either. Iraq is was our ally when it suited our needs, but then we turned against them when it didn't later.

Yeah, those doggone suicide bombing israelis.

:laugh:

Uh, ya, it's the tactic that is all that matters. If Israel nuked the entire Middle East, you could make the same 'argument'. Hey, they didn't use suicide bombers, so it's ok.

Except perhaps, just maybe, the fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians?

Just a little?

1: oh and Israeli soldiers don't? Look at exhibit A, B, C
2: those are isolated examples of soldiers who were then reprimanded. If Israel wanted to target civilians the death toll would be astronomical. they've shown commendable restraint in fighting terrorists who live with and among civilians knowing they can then attack with impunity and claim retalitory attacks against them kill civilians.
1: the world would condemn israel if it targeted civilians on a wide scale basis and they would be sanctioned, and risk funding from the US which is the only thing keeping them afloat
2: who cares what their motivation is, they don't target civilians as a policy, the palestinians do, despite world-wide condemnation. The palestinians are given billions in aid instead of buying food they buy weapons then complain their people are starving.
1: you suck
2: your mother
1: your brother
2: your sister
1: i love you
2&1: *SMOOOCH*kiss*

sorry, the predictable tension was killing me thought I'd end it in a new way
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
People hate America becasue of the things Americans say and do. Before I joined these forums I loved the idea of America - I wanted to move there for a few years and study at MIT. These days, while I still don't exactly hate America, I'm pretty sure I will never go there.
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: Titan
Why do they hate us? Simple.

Because we are over there.

How would you like it if some foreigners with superior tanks and planes marched over here to take our corn?

The U.S. hasn't minded it's own business since before WWI.



I wouldn't like it very much. But our God gave us those "superior tanks and planes" and "corn". Allah doesn't like the middle east very much. Thats why Allah only gave those people sticks and stones. I suppose Allah felt a little bad and gave he Middle East oil, but then it was shown that instead of spending that money on their people, the leaders spent it on worthless phallic symbols, i.e., tall buildings. I think Allah is a bit upset with that and is starting to take away the benefits of oil.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,949
1,624
126
:music::music:

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...:music:
:music:
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: eleison
Originally posted by: Titan
Why do they hate us? Simple.

Because we are over there.

How would you like it if some foreigners with superior tanks and planes marched over here to take our corn?

The U.S. hasn't minded it's own business since before WWI.



I wouldn't like it very much. But our God gave us those "superior tanks and planes" and "corn". Allah doesn't like the middle east very much. Thats why Allah only gave those people sticks and stones. I suppose Allah felt a little bad and gave he Middle East oil, but then it was shown that instead of spending that money on their people, the leaders spent it on worthless phallic symbols, i.e., tall buildings. I think Allah is a bit upset with that and is starting to take away the benefits of oil.

/tapping sarcasm meter