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Why do they cancel jewels like FireFly and Carnivale
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Accipiter22
Banned
wtf was carnivale?
I have only seen a few episodes of BSG, I thought it was good, but it lacked the appeal of Firefly because all the machinery was too hightech (Star Trek like). It seemed interesting, and maybe I would like it, but it didn't seem believable that all of that machinery could be so easily fixed. Also, the dialogue isn't as witty. It is juiced up with drama and charged with emotions (the dialogue that it), but it lacks a certain amount of thought to the words used. It gets the point across and excites the audience, but it doesn't make you laugh or think about how the dialogue fits the character. A lot of thought seemed to go into the words used by each character in Firefly.
A friend of mine is into Farscape and had me watch some of the show (it was pretty good, but not as believable, some episodes were downright hokey). I mean how many times can someone be frozen, die, get his head chopped off till it becomes a little unrealistic that they can bring him back. The dialogue had wit to it, but I enjoyed the synergy in the cast for firefly better as well. Again, good show, but I think that Firefly really had much more of a realistic appeal to it than either of these shows. If the human race occupied other planets and some were neglected, technology would regress in those areas.
The way Firefly was filmed too, the angles and panning really added to the grittiness and realism of the show. It was a bold step for a director to film a show in that way, but no one caught it because not a large amount of people actually like to think when they watch television. IMO.
Sureshot324
Diamond Member
I was wondering that too. The budget would probably have to be cut be a lot though if it moved to sci-fi. I think since the dvd's sold so well they decided to get into movies instead of tv. Serenity didn't do that great in the box office but we'll see how well the dvd sells.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
you have to start with the 3 hour miniseries of bsg. its on dvd
no i don't think so, they can say anything now that they won't bother with it, but the basic fact is they are not in the business of losing money. the tv show bombed, the movie bombed, i don't think they would bother trying to lose money a 3rd time.
I like to think, and that's exactly why I didn't like Firefly as much as I thought I might from all the hype. All the things you liked about it in your post do not require thinking. They just require sitting back and enjoying. I also enjoyed the dialogue and character interactions in Firefly, but they were awfully forced at times, and the overall plot as well as individual plots were often recycled drek from every other science fiction show. The good parts were fun, but just not quite as good as they could have been. It was kind of like a Shinichiro Watanabe tv show but just not quite as good in terms of style, dialogue, and panache. It was more of a well-executed cliche than an inventive work like BSG.
Anyway, Firefly is not really science fiction as much as space opera. BSG has a very heavy dose of science fiction (although also some space opera). That is why it is beloved. The overall story of BSG is worlds better than any other science fiction I've seen since Babylon 5, and probably better than that in time. There is plenty of humor and intelligent dialogue. One thing it does which firefly never did was involve dialogue that makes you think about philosophical and religious implications.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
I saw the first two parts of the miniseries. It was good. Charged with drama, but lacked a lot of witty dialogue. I guess I didn't get into it because I don't have cable anymore, but the show lacks that realism, downtrodden hero that is cool in Firefly.
**************************************************************
I would agree with both points. Some of the dialogue seemed forced, but that was due to the execs forcing Whedon to hurry up the show to get to the action. He had to cut and refilm a lot of scenes because of Fox. He had a low budget and still came out with an over the top show. Also, Firefly wasn't meant to be made for Sci-Fi. Whedon even said he wanted to make a show that seemed more in the present with the same problems we have today with a little science fiction in it. He wanted to focus on the downtrodden people and show the characters and story instead of cool gadgets and things blowing up.
I actually do think the way the show was filmed requires some analysis. It is very different from how other shows are filmed, where they do little or no panning and just edit scenes to speed up the story. Whedon actually used long film rolls every once in a while with different angle than expected to drive points across in the show. The Episode "Out of Gas" was extremely well done IMO. The only thinking in BSG and Star Trek and the like is the cool technology and jargon they use, but in actuality are just jargon words and phrases that are used commonly throughout all science fictions. All you have to think with those shows is, 'Is the transmorgrifier with the transducer going to allow you to esacpe through the wormhole using a tachyon flux?' Although both are well done shows, Firefly was different and took a totally unique approach to Science Fiction. Firefly was more realistic in that part as well because it spoke about the drudgeries of the mechanics on the ship. It required more thought.
I also disagree with the last part. In the 11 episodes that were shown, religious and philosophy were dealt with. They had a priest and a prostitute on board the ship for G-d's sake. Usually the first season of a show is meant to build up the characters though. It is just that Fox didn't want to spend the time doing that and cancelled the show. It dealt with a persons struggle to cope with loss, it dealt with religion and faith and the difference, it dealt with love and affection going beyond sex...
I'm glad you find all those things interesting about Firefly. Having seen them all before countless times, I am left with appreciating only the wit and style of the characters, and the very occasional interesting twist to a cliche. Camera angles and editting are hardly unique in the show, although certainly the old NBC ad holds true that it's new if you haven't seen it. Fortunately they don't go quite as overboard with them as Farscape did, which seemed to be an hour long advertisement for motion-sickness medicine at times.
Technical jargon has nothing to do with what most people love about BSG or older star treks. In fact, the BSG creators have even stated open disdain for technical jargon, but admitted the need for it once in a while. There really isn't as much as you seem to think in BSG.
Having a preacher on board does not constitute provoking religious thought - for me anyway. He has not done anything that merits any sort of philosophical or religious interpretation in the 14 DVD episodes. Maybe they had some grand Kwisatz Haderach plan for him, but it didn't come to fruition so I can only judge by what was presented. He's just your stereotypical guy with a secret past who turned towards religion/philosphy.
Regardless of what fox did or didn't do to the show, the fact remains is that the final product was more or less recycled sci fi made about as well as it could be (which certainly is well enough to remain on TV but not so well that people should throw themselves off buildings in despair when it is cancelled). Firefly never really broke free of its own cliches the way shows like Veronica Mars, Rescue Me, BSG, etc. do.
Also worth noting is that the cowboy in space aspect of Firefly was entertaining, although not all that original. Cowboy Bebop was a recent example of a similar setting.
Technical jargon has nothing to do with what most people love about BSG or older star treks. In fact, the BSG creators have even stated open disdain for technical jargon, but admitted the need for it once in a while. There really isn't as much as you seem to think in BSG.
Having a preacher on board does not constitute provoking religious thought - for me anyway. He has not done anything that merits any sort of philosophical or religious interpretation in the 14 DVD episodes. Maybe they had some grand Kwisatz Haderach plan for him, but it didn't come to fruition so I can only judge by what was presented. He's just your stereotypical guy with a secret past who turned towards religion/philosphy.
Regardless of what fox did or didn't do to the show, the fact remains is that the final product was more or less recycled sci fi made about as well as it could be (which certainly is well enough to remain on TV but not so well that people should throw themselves off buildings in despair when it is cancelled). Firefly never really broke free of its own cliches the way shows like Veronica Mars, Rescue Me, BSG, etc. do.
Also worth noting is that the cowboy in space aspect of Firefly was entertaining, although not all that original. Cowboy Bebop was a recent example of a similar setting.
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
I miss Committed.
Firefly was a cross between Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.
More or less any cliche that was in Firefly is in almost every other sci-fi genre, just better done. As for camera angles and the such, it was done only to get points across. I have seen it in films before and a few tv shows, but not many tv shows will do that. If you look at Star Trek, Farscape, SG1,... in the first 9-11 episodes, cliches run throughout. I would say for all of the shows they never broke out of their cliches. The main difference for Star Trek and Farscape is it was on different stations which supported it (and eventually drew a large fan base). SG1 had the film that did well to draw on their fan base and also had a big named actor, so Fox allowed it to grow. Firefly started with nothing, with no big named actors, but the synergy of the cast was incredible. I would venture to say BSG has many cliches themselves although I haven't seen it entirely.
Veronica Mars has a fan base, but I would say it is a lot like any other teenage angst show (much like Buffy except with a little more maturity in the characters).
Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Just a general FYI - both Firefly and BSG use the same CGI FX outfit so they use the same shakey cam special effects during the space shots.
In fact, if you look outside the window when Laura Roslin is sitting in the doctor's office in the first part of the mini-series, you'll see a Firefly class spaceship coming in for a landing.
In fact, if you look outside the window when Laura Roslin is sitting in the doctor's office in the first part of the mini-series, you'll see a Firefly class spaceship coming in for a landing.
Apparently you have not seen Veronica Mars either. It does have teenagers in it, you got that part right, but "like any other teenage angst show" is hardly accurate. If you are going to say it's like any other anything, it should be any other private detective show, because last I checked, most teenage angst shows don't involve murder mysteries and private detectives.
BSG has a lot of cliches, but its core plot, characters, and overall atmosphere is anything but a cliche. The "enemy" in the show appear to be monotheistic, whereas the "good guys" are polytheistic. Given that a lot of the audience is probably monotheistic, I find that single fact alone more thought provoking than most shows on TV.
Like I said, firefly was entertaining enough that I wish it were still on, but it was hardly the masterpiece that people are making it out to be.
BSG has a lot of cliches, but its core plot, characters, and overall atmosphere is anything but a cliche. The "enemy" in the show appear to be monotheistic, whereas the "good guys" are polytheistic. Given that a lot of the audience is probably monotheistic, I find that single fact alone more thought provoking than most shows on TV.
Like I said, firefly was entertaining enough that I wish it were still on, but it was hardly the masterpiece that people are making it out to be.
ShadowBlade
Diamond Member
Firefly kicks lots of ass
Got the complete serries on DVD
Got the complete serries on DVD
It isn't coicidence it is the #3 top selling DVD series on Amazon right now
And there aren't that many fanatics for such a high number.
middlehead
Diamond Member
At least one Fox executive has publically admitted that the show's failure was Fox's fault. Yes, it cost a lot to produce, but even Fox now admits that had they not aired episodes out of intended order, switched the air night, and consistently preempted it for baseball, it may very well have become profitable.
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