Why do the states of the US have so much power?

[Sedition]

If only. The idea of current state's rights is almost a joke. If they Fed Gov wants something they force the states to do it. When state's try to hold their own they get attacked by both politicians and the media. The idea of a Jeffersonian Democracy received a fatal blow in the Civil War and has since suffered and agonized it is barely current state as a poor facade.

 

[KlokWyze]

Wow... a good P&N thread.

State's power surely is not what it used to be. Hopefully we can turn this around. I think the next few decades could be interesting concerning this if there aren't any big terrorist attacks, wars, etc. It just seems like every crisis is just an excuse for the Executive to walk all over us... & so many morons just eat up the emotional shit, panic & fear while praising the leader. It's really concerning when the last presidential was actually pretty close! I mean WTF!??!?!?! :disgust:

 

[BenSkywalker]

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness

I noticed that you also considered abortion a right, so the right to life is somehow not equal to the right to the pursuit of happiness? If you want to take those three as given rights, liberty and life must be considered equal with the pursuit of happiness. Not saying that one way or the other on either issue is the proper one, simply pointing out hypocrisy

 

[Elias824]

More state and local power allow an individual to have a larger impact on his surroundings

 

[Greenman]

The question really should be "why do the states have so little power".

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: CPA
explain to me how gay marriage is a right. Hell, even heterosexual marriage is not a right. Both are privaleges and both can be legislated by the state/people.

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness, though obviously some insist on supporting legalisation to the contrary.

hmmmm....interesting, never thought of it in that context.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness

I noticed that you also considered abortion a right, so the right to life is somehow not equal to the right to the pursuit of happiness? If you want to take those three as given rights, liberty and life must be considered equal with the pursuit of happiness. Not saying that one way or the other on either issue is the proper one, simply pointing out hypocrisy

This really comes down to the definition of life. Many see a unborn fetus as a part of the mother, and see no real diffrence between it and any other group of cells until it fully forms as an independent human being.

 

[Xavier434]

I am pretty happy with the transition of the balance of power between the Fed and the states. I think it is something that has simply evolved over time as this country and the world as a whole gets smaller. It is by no means perfect, but I am happy and that is what counts the most imo. I know there are many, including several voices in this thread, which feel the polar opposite though. To each their own.

 

[Atheus]

It seems to work well enough, most people seem able to get behind the federal flag and the whole concept of the USA as a nation, while still keeping their own state's laws and culture. That's the problem with Europe IMO - if we could get behind a single leader we would be just as rich and powerful as the USA but there's just no enthusiasm for it. There would be even more difference between the states than there is in the US, for example the British and the French want nothing to do with the Italian legal system, whereas Sweeden wants nothing to do with the Euro curency, etc, but if there was something to unite us like the US president and the US flag does then it could theoretically work... it'll never happen though.

 

[MikeyLSU]

states don't really have that much power. Sure they can have some differences, but if the federal government wants you to change your laws, they will make you.

For instance like 15 years ago when most of the country changed the drinking age to 21, Louisiana kept it at 18. Federal gov came in and said if you don't change it to 21 we will cut a lot of funding.

So you see, the federal government still has full control for whatever they want. They will just blackmail states to do it if needed.

 

[OFFascist]

The United States is a union of individual states.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness

I noticed that you also considered abortion a right, so the right to life is somehow not equal to the right to the pursuit of happiness? If you want to take those three as given rights, liberty and life must be considered equal with the pursuit of happiness. Not saying that one way or the other on either issue is the proper one, simply pointing out hypocrisy

This really comes down to the definition of life. Many see a unborn fetus as a part of the mother, and see no real diffrence between it and any other group of cells until it fully forms as an independent human being.

There are certainly many difference between an embryo/fetus other groups of cells, but that inability to live independent of the mother, the ability to survive outside of the womb, is what differentiates a fetus from the human being it becomes.

That said, I would never recommend an abortion to any woman, aside from when allowing gestation will quite likely kill both the mother and the fetus. However, I would never deny a woman her liberty to choose otherwise, and I find it completely abhorrent that others insist on doing so, particularly in the case of probable death.

Tell me Ben, how old are you?

Did you count that from when you were conceived, or when you were born?

Yeah, that is what I though, hypocrite.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Tell me Ben, how old are you?

Did you count that from when you were conceived, or when you were born?

Yeah, that is what I though, hypocrite.

that is kind of dumb since we start at our BIRTHDATE and it is not our choice to decide when to start counting, the government decided long ago.

Why can't we allow lateterm abortion if it is not a baby until birth? Why not allow abortions right up until the birth?

 

[AreaCode7O7]

As one of the largest countries in the world, if most of our government was centralized I think Americans would feel isolated from and without say in their government. The disconnect would be too large and the country eventually would wind up splitting into separate governments.

Try to think of all of Europe being held under a single united government.

 

[OutHouse]

because states are in essence countrys unto themselves. they voted to join the union of the UNITED states. most people view the US as one country but in reality its 50 different countries.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: CPA
explain to me how gay marriage is a right. Hell, even heterosexual marriage is not a right. Both are privaleges and both can be legislated by the state/people.

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness, though obviously some insist on supporting legalisation to the contrary.

hmmmm....interesting, never thought of it in that context.

Many people get caught up in the details of the legislation which as been enacted. while completely ignoring how so much of that legislation violates the principles of freedom our great nation was founded upon:

"all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Those are the rights of all, and the only legitimate power our government has is to insure those rights for all. Anything beyond that is the tyranny which our Declaration of Independence was enacted to abolish. We have fallen far from that ideal, but we haven't burned the documents yet, and we have the option to start living up to the priciples of freedom they enshrine any time we like.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Citrix
because states are in essence countrys unto themselves. they voted to join the union of the UNITED states. most people view the US as one country but in reality its 50 different countries.

Yes and no. There are similarities but we are also very different than 50 different countries. Just compare the US to Europe to see some of the differences. Obviously there are many arguments which can be made that suggest that such a comparison contains flaws, but generally speaking it is a pretty good one.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Tell me Ben, how old are you?

Did you count that from when you were conceived, or when you were born?

Yeah, that is what I though, hypocrite.

that is kind of dumb since we start at our BIRTHDATE and it is not our choice to decide when to start counting, the government decided long ago.

I only asked how old he is, I never suggested were he should start counting, and where all we all start counting from was decided long before there was any government.

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Why can't we allow lateterm abortion if it is not a baby until birth? Why not allow abortions right up until the birth?

Killing a viable fetus on the technicality that hasn't been delivered yet is insane, you psychopath.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Citrix
because states are in essence countrys unto themselves. they voted to join the union of the UNITED states. most people view the US as one country but in reality its 50 different countries.

Yes and no. There are similarities but we are also very different than 50 different countries. Just compare the US to Europe to see some of the differences. Obviously there are many arguments which can be made that suggest that such a comparison contains flaws, but generally speaking it is a pretty good one.

not really. the union we have was solidified way before different cultures, languages, money, customs, courts. got a firm grip. Europe has been divided for eons and will always be divided.

when the founding fathers said stuff like "My fellow country men" they were not talking about the US they were addressing Virginians or what ever state (country) they were from.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Citrix
because states are in essence countrys unto themselves. they voted to join the union of the UNITED states. most people view the US as one country but in reality its 50 different countries.

Yes and no. There are similarities but we are also very different than 50 different countries. Just compare the US to Europe to see some of the differences. Obviously there are many arguments which can be made that suggest that such a comparison contains flaws, but generally speaking it is a pretty good one.

not really. the union we have was solidified way before different cultures, languages, money, customs, courts. got a firm grip. Europe has been divided for eons and will always be divided.

when the founding fathers said stuff like "My fellow country men" they were not talking about the US they were addressing Virginians or what ever state (country) they were from.

I don't know. I believe that we are not divided similarly to Europe because our states are states and not countries. Things work differently with states both on paper and how it feels while living in them in general. Each state feels decently unique, but they are not nearly as different from each other as the rest of the world when going from country to country and culture to culture. I think that counts for a lot.

Regardless, it doesn't really matter. It is what it is.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Tell me Ben, how old are you?

Did you count that from when you were conceived, or when you were born?

Yeah, that is what I though, hypocrite.

that is kind of dumb since we start at our BIRTHDATE and it is not our choice to decide when to start counting, the government decided long ago.

I only asked how old he is, I never suggested were he should start counting, and where all we all start counting from was decided long before there was any government.

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Why can't we allow lateterm abortion if it is not a baby until birth? Why not allow abortions right up until the birth?

Killing a viable fetus on the technicality that hasn't been delivered yet is insane, you psychopath.

wow, big namecaller, lol. I'm not the one who wants abortion BTW, just stating a flaw. If life doesn't start till birth, what is the problem with aborting an unborn fetus? So you are saying at some point before birth it is an actual life?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't know. I believe that we are not divided similarly to Europe because our states are states and not countries. Things work differently with states both on paper and how it feels while living in them in general. Each state feels decently unique, but they are not nearly as different from each other as the rest of the world when going from country to country and culture to culture. I think that counts for a lot.

Exactly, just as larger European nations have their own sates. For instance, when I lived in Germany, I lived in the state of Baden-Württemberg.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
wow, big namecaller, lol. I'm not the one who wants abortion BTW, just stating a flaw. If life doesn't start till birth, what is the problem with aborting an unborn fetus? So you are saying at some point before birth it is an actual life?

You are the one who suggested killing a viable fetus on the technicality that hasn't been delivered. If you don't want to be called a psychopath, don't ask psychotic questions.

And again, I would never recommend an abortion to any woman, aside from when allowing gestation will quite likely kill both the mother and the fetus, but I don't have any desire to deprive women of their liberty to choose otherwise either.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Farang
Short answer is it is a result of the bargaining that went on among the colonies when we decided to go for independence. Virginians didn't want to be bossed around by New Yorkers and vice versa, or to create the same kind of oppressive power that they were under with the British. Today it is much more of a federal-based system and I think you'll find a lot of Americans find it amusing you think the states hold a lot of power.

Yep.

It was part of the Great Compromise. We either could have had a short-term Strong but long-term Vulnerable (to other countries) Confederacy, or a short-term Strong but long-term Invulnerable (to the people) Union.

They came up with something in the middle.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: CPA
explain to me how gay marriage is a right. Hell, even heterosexual marriage is not a right. Both are privaleges and both can be legislated by the state/people.

Any voluntary marriage falls under the right to the pursuit of happiness, though obviously some insist on supporting legalisation to the contrary.

hmmmm....interesting, never thought of it in that context.

"Marriage", as a legal concept, brings with it some privileges and responsibilites, I don't think it is a "right" per se. (Is alimony a Constitutional right? I don't think so)

You can love who you wish, you can live with whom you wish. That exists now and that is, IMO, your "right to pursuit of happiness" etc. You don't need legal 'marriage' for that.

Fern