Why do so many people not realize that FDR was a globalist fascist?

[Anarchist420]

Here's a list of his corporatist actions:
~Min wage laws, which are a barrier to entry for small businesses.
~the FCC which controls the media, but leaves profits in private hands.
~GATT, which was managed trade
~NRA, which nominally left profits in private hands
~people paid more in excise taxes than in income taxes (not that there is anything wrong that, but it's not progressive, which is what many claim FDR was)
~Stole gold from the American people and outlawed it's private ownership (fascism, not freedom).
~Interned Americans of Japanese descent in deadly conditions, many of whom because of the deadly conditions in which they were put into (an example of Fasco-Nationalism).
~Gave Halliburton its start, so he's basically the father of the MIC, in which the people subsidize rich military contractors.
~Everything else mentioned by John T Flynn.

That leaves us the question:
What did he give to the poor for nothing without taking from the poor? If "nothing other than separating investment banks from commercial banks" is the answer, then he was 98% fascist. Even if we add in 3 more things, he was still >= 90% fascist.

So, why do so many people regard that asshole as a man of the people, when that title belongs to Jefferson, Jackson, and Dr. Paul?

 

[Lemon law]

Another Anarachist420 stupid what if question that is irrelevant today.

Ok, let me ask you and see you squirm, even if we agree that FDR was a global fascist as you charge, what difference would it make 60 years later in the world of today?

If the answer is it does not matter today, will you promise to stop spamming this forum by asking endless stupid questions.

 

[xj0hnx]

Another Anarachist420 stupid what if question that is irrelevant today.

Ok, let me ask you and see you squirm, even if we agree that FDR was a global fascist as you charge, what difference would it make 60 years later in the world of today?

If the answer is it does not matter today, will you promise to stop spamming this forum by asking endless stupid questions.

Not that I want to defend our local pot smoking anarchist, but if you don't think that programs, and agencies started back then that are still going strong effect us today ...you fail.

 

[Lemon law]

Not that I want to defend our local pot smoking anarchist, but if you don't think that programs, and agencies started back then that are still going strong effect us today ...you fail.

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Ding Ding Ding I think xhohnx has a winner here. And while Our OP bitches about a minimum wage, taking the US off the gold standard all realize was no longer tenable, and lest we forget, FDR started social security, are all still thriving today as social institutions today.

Perhaps the Anarchist420 problem is in believing his own half baked ideas, that have never been,
or now are, or will ever be anything but a small small minority view of the American voting public.

Our Op's latest delusion as a newly minted Paul bot, is since Ron Paul flopped in the Republican primaries of 2008, in 2012, when he runs as a democrat, Ron Paul will sweep the democratic Presidential primaries for Prez for sure.

 

[ElFenix]

FCC was basically just an FRC with expanded jurisdiction over other communication services. the FRC had been in existence since herbert hoover pushed it through.

 

[fskimospy]

Why do people respond to this idiot? I'll admit that it's sort of fun to call him a moron and rub his nose in how little he knows about American history, economics, public policy, etc, but haven't we all had our fill by this point?

 

[Vette73]

 

[Brigandier]

I don't believe he was a fascist, I believe he was an American trying to fix something.

FDR came into office under a lot of pressure, not to mention his internal pressures of hiding his illness. Unlike other world leaders, American leaders are forced into a tenuous position. He has to listen to friends, which are experts in one areas, generals, senators and congressmen. The US President does not exist in a vacuum, he's not individual, he is the pressures around him and his fortitude to deal with it.

FDR was also a legacy bid, America was quite familiar with Teddy, and his character, and voted on that too. I think FDR did alright for what was demanded, he tempered the advice he received and tried to create a "New America" that could meet the demands of a modern era. Today, if you take a measure, he has largely succeeded. America is still a good place to live in the world, we are still near the cusp.

I think America needs to address a lot of issues, make hard decisions on what freedom means in the 21st century. Free enterprise is still a difficult task, and I think we should make it easier, but it is still far easier to succeed today than it has ever been. I think America should support free enterprise, the type of business that is sustainable at the limits of our predictive models. If America makes a policy in supporting twenty-first century ideals, it can succeed. We need to abandon our old ideas in favor of new solutions, and work together to find them.

America is an exciting place, this is the one county that can come out with something that is not the status quo, all it needs is success and support.

 

[Anarchist420]

FCC was basically just an FRC with expanded jurisdiction over other communication services. the FRC had been in existence since herbert hoover pushed it through.

That's true. I hadn't really thought about that.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I don't believe he was a fascist, I believe he was an American trying to fix something.
FDR came into office under a lot of pressure, not to mention his internal pressures of hiding his illness...

One pressure rarely mentioned in P&N was the need to save American capitalism from Huey Long populism cum socialism.
Had President Roosevelt's programs not worked, there was a very real danger of a Kingfish challenge from the left. Senator Long's assassination in 1935 precluded an anticipated 1936 campaign based on his "Share Our Wealth" and "Every Man a King" themes.

 

[Lemon law]

One pressure rarely mentioned in P&N was the need to save American capitalism from Huey Long populism cum socialism.
Had President Roosevelt's programs not worked, there was a very real danger of a Kingfish challenge from the left. Senator Long's assassination in 1935 precluded an anticipated 1936 campaign based on his "Share Our Wealth" and "Every Man a King" themes.

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I certainly will not disagree with that CalMeJoe point, but what we ignore is the fact that Hubert Hoover had thoroughly discredited all Republican conventional wisdom as the Hoover administration, in four short years, went from popular to villainy. By the time the election of 11/1932 rolled around, Hoover would be hard pressed to win an election anywhere to be dogcatcher.

In somewhat fairness to Hoover, the great depression was not just his fault, it was the structural mistakes of short sided idiots like Harding and Coolidge, that failed to notice that American prosperity went only to the rich, and the thing that business has no defense against is when they kill off the consumers ability to buy their output. In that disparity of economic distribution, the days are just numbered before collapse, and lucky Hoover was the poo bah in charge when the bottom inevitably dropped out of everything. And soon we had 25% unemployment.

 

[xj0hnx]

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Ding Ding Ding I think xhohnx has a winner here. And while Our OP bitches about a minimum wage, taking the US off the gold standard all realize was no longer tenable, and lest we forget, FDR started social security, are all still thriving today as social institutions today.

Going strong =/= thriving.

 

[LegendKiller]

I heard that FDR really liked to mix drinks. He was horrible at it, but he loved to mix them.

It would have been awesome to be served a drink by FDR.

 

[MotF Bane]

I heard that FDR really liked to mix drinks. He was horrible at it, but he loved to mix them.

It would have been awesome to be served a drink by FDR.

:thumbsup:

 

[Lemon law]

Going strong =/= thriving.

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Somewhat a point, but still, Social security is still the third rail of American politics.

We can maybe blame FDR for front loading social security, but all subsequent congresses viewed the in the black social security trust funds as their low interest piggybank.

But now due to the baby boomers reaching social security collection age, suddenly the social security trust is now in the red instead.

Do we blame FDR or our subsequent congresses? Any politician that don't make our Grey Pathers whole has zero chance at reelection.

 

[Steeplerot]

After admitting the other day you wished Nazi Germany won Ww2 it is not surprising that the man who held together the last holdout of liberal democracy in the world and saved capitalism from it's own self destrucrive nature would be fascist to you.
I am sure he would take it as a compliment.

 

[Siddhartha]

After admitting the other day you wished Nazi Germany won Ww2 it is not surprising that the man who held together the last holdout of liberal democracy in the world and saved capitalism from it's own self destrucrive nature would be fascist to you.
I am sure he would take it as a compliment.

OP, is it true that you would have preferred that the Nazis had won WWII?

 

[BeauJangles]

Here's a list of his corporatist actions:
~Min wage laws, which are a barrier to entry for small businesses.
~the FCC which controls the media, but leaves profits in private hands.
~GATT, which was managed trade
~NRA, which nominally left profits in private hands
~people paid more in excise taxes than in income taxes (not that there is anything wrong that, but it's not progressive, which is what many claim FDR was)
~Stole gold from the American people and outlawed it's private ownership (fascism, not freedom).
~Interned Americans of Japanese descent in deadly conditions, many of whom because of the deadly conditions in which they were put into (an example of Fasco-Nationalism).
~Gave Halliburton its start, so he's basically the father of the MIC, in which the people subsidize rich military contractors.
~Everything else mentioned by John T Flynn.

That leaves us the question:
What did he give to the poor for nothing without taking from the poor? If "nothing other than separating investment banks from commercial banks" is the answer, then he was 98% fascist. Even if we add in 3 more things, he was still >= 90% fascist.

So, why do so many people regard that asshole as a man of the people, when that title belongs to Jefferson, Jackson, and Dr. Paul?

Do you even know what the world fascism means or did you hear it in class one day and thought it sounded cool? Every day in this forum you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of what the word actually means.

 

[Anarchist420]

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I certainly will not disagree with that CalMeJoe point, but what we ignore is the fact that Hubert Hoover had thoroughly discredited all Republican conventional wisdom as the Hoover administration, in four short years, went from popular to villainy. By the time the election of 11/1932 rolled around, Hoover would be hard pressed to win an election anywhere to be dogcatcher.

In somewhat fairness to Hoover, the great depression was not just his fault, it was the structural mistakes of short sided idiots like Harding and Coolidge, that failed to notice that American prosperity went only to the rich, and the thing that business has no defense against is when they kill off the consumers ability to buy their output. In that disparity of economic distribution, the days are just numbered before collapse, and lucky Hoover was the poo bah in charge when the bottom inevitably dropped out of everything. And soon we had 25% unemployment.

The GD was so long because the reserve ratio was raised to 100% permanently and because Hoover interfered. I'll admit that I somewhat blame coolidge for not keeping an eye on the Fed, but Hoover had a chance to fix the banking problem but he didn't. FDR never fixed it. The market finally fixed the GD on its own. See Robert Higgs.

 

[Anarchist420]

After admitting the other day you wished Nazi Germany won Ww2 it is not surprising that the man who held together the last holdout of liberal democracy in the world and saved capitalism from it's own self destrucrive nature would be fascist to you.
I am sure he would take it as a compliment.

I said I almost wished WW2 was won by the Axis powers.

OP, is it true that you would have preferred that the Nazis had won WWII?

See above. I'm pretty sure that 10 years from now, it will not matter who won.

Do you even know what the world fascism means or did you hear it in class one day and thought it sounded cool? Every day in this forum you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of what the word actually means.

I know what fascism means. Fascism=corporate statism, Nazism, where the economy is heavily regulated, but profits nominally remain in private hands. FDR studied Mussolini (who was a fascist), and emulated him with damn-near perfect accuracy. I'll admit that FDR had a communist side, as he was a globalist, but he was also a nationalist (centralizer of power, and anti-Japanese as he interned Americans of Japanese descent in deadly conditions)

 

[crashtestdummy]

I know what fascism means. Fascism=corporate statism, Nazism, where the economy is heavily regulated, but profits nominally remain in private hands. FDR studied Mussolini (who was a fascist), and emulated him with damn-near perfect accuracy. I'll admit that FDR had a communist side, as he was a globalist, but he was also a nationalist (centralizer of power, and anti-Japanese as he interned Americans of Japanese descent in deadly conditions)

The mistake your making is that Fascism is Corpratist, but Corpratism is not Fascism. Fascism is an ideal of human perfection achieved through totalitarian means (eugenics, nationalism, militarism). That is not an inherently corpratist goal. Conversely, corpratism is an element of capitalist and socialist societies as well. By your standards, then, you could claim FDR was a capitalist or communist too. You simply chose to call him a fascist because it is inflammatory and it makes you feel better about your dislike for him.

 

[piasabird]

FDR is dead, just like your sorry ideas!!!

 

[BeauJangles]

I know what fascism means.

Fascism=corporate statism, Nazism, where the economy is heavily regulated, but profits nominally remain in private hands.

You're just throwing around meaningless terms, trying to define a term that is, in itself, one that lacks a solid definition. In the pejorative, fascism simply implies authoritarian. Beyond that, the definition is incredibly murky, but "fascist" states often share a few qualities in common: a victim mentality, an internal group to blame, a cult of the leader, and an extreme form of nationalism and unity that is the nation's saving grace. Extreme militarism also factors into the national unity.

Personally, I think fascism is a useless word which doesn't accurately describe Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, or any of the other regimes which ostensibly fall under the definition of "fascism."

FDR studied Mussolini (who was a fascist), and emulated him with damn-near perfect accuracy.

No, he didn't emulate him. It makes a nice story, but it isn't true. Mussolini's power rested in his own personality and his personification of his personality into the government of Italy. FDR was popular, but popularity is not the same thing as a cult of personality.

FDR's lack of militarization, his rejection of racial ideology, and his economic and political policies put him at odds with the dictators you are trying to compare him to.
FDR mostly draws criticism for his New Deal initiatives, something that you're going to have a hell of a time trying to fit into his "fascist" ideology.

I'll admit that FDR had a communist side, as he was a globalist, but he was also a nationalist (centralizer of power, and anti-Japanese as he interned Americans of Japanese descent in deadly conditions)

Now you're just throwing around terms. FDR can't both be a communist and a fascist, and depending on what you mean by "globalist" he also can't be a globalist and a fascist. Truthfully though I doubt you really know what those mean, either.

 

[Anarchist420]

You're just throwing around meaningless terms, trying to define a term that is, in itself, one that lacks a solid definition. In the pejorative, fascism simply implies authoritarian. Beyond that, the definition is incredibly murky, but "fascist" states often share a few qualities in common: a victim mentality, an internal group to blame, a cult of the leader, and an extreme form of nationalism and unity that is the nation's saving grace. Extreme militarism also factors into the national unity.

Personally, I think fascism is a useless word which doesn't accurately describe Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, or any of the other regimes which ostensibly fall under the definition of "fascism."



No, he didn't emulate him. It makes a nice story, but it isn't true. Mussolini's power rested in his own personality and his personification of his personality into the government of Italy. FDR was popular, but popularity is not the same thing as a cult of personality.

FDR's lack of militarization, his rejection of racial ideology, and his economic and political policies put him at odds with the dictators you are trying to compare him to.
FDR mostly draws criticism for his New Deal initiatives, something that you're going to have a hell of a time trying to fit into his "fascist" ideology.



Now you're just throwing around terms. FDR can't both be a communist and a fascist, and depending on what you mean by "globalist" he also can't be a globalist and a fascist. Truthfully though I doubt you really know what those mean, either.

FDR was a classic authoritarian, pure and simple. He was a militarist, a nationalist, and an internationalist. WHO, WTO/GATT, IMF, and World Bank are all globablist corporatism which is what FDR supported. At the same time, FDR supported cartelization of industries which was to be achieved by government regulation and nominally private ownership (although not real privatization since it was to be regulated), which makes him a corporatist. He favored the corporate state on a national level and if it was possible, then at the world level also.

He was also a nationalist because he rejected decentralist policies.

In short, FDR had both a Communist (marxism, international egalitarianism) and a corporatist side, but ultimately, his corporatist side came to dominate. If he had advocated public ownership of everything and had not been anti-Japanese (or simply racist), then he would've been a communist, but he was antijapanese and he advocated cartelization (regulations) rather than nationalization (common ownership) of industry, so he was a corporatist.

 

[Anarchist420]

Three New Deals, by David Gordon: http://mises.org/daily/2312