I don't understand, do you think that if you say it enough times it'll miraculously become true?
I have no desire to argue with you. It will be a fruitless expenditure of energy. The hate has clouded your judgement, and you're not open to real debate. Thus, it would only cause me frustration, and would accomplish little else.
I leave you with this - not once have Palestinian leaders ever showed a desire for peace (at least none who have mattered). They only take, they don't give. And they've never ceased to publicly admit that their goal is the extermination of Jews, and complete ownership of the land of Israel. Since they have never had administrative control of the land (in the thousands of years of its history), it's nothing more than a war of conquest, as far as I am concerned... a war which they choose to fight against children in buses and cafes. For as long as that continues, I may have my sympathy for the plight of their innocents, but they will not have my approval or my cooperation. After all, the plight of their civilians, is the doing of their leaders, not of the Israelis.
Your rhetoric is extremely disingenuous, Meuge. Palestinians lived in Palestine when it was part of the Ottoman Empire, and while it was ruled under British mandate. They have titles and deeds dating from those times, which Israeli authorities choose to ignore, even in the face of condemnation by the world community.
Palestinians are being systematically disenfranchised, separated from their property, herded into progressively smaller areas, much as was done with native Americans, european jews under fascism, and blacks under the former SA regime... The Israelis are practicing a slow motion version of Lebensraum... they covet every single square inch of the area, and would gladly eject or exterminate the Pals if left to their own devices...
And the difference between Palestinian suicide bombers extinguishing themselves in a crowded cafe differs just how from the IDF putting an artillery barrage on a crowded Palestinian neighborhood? Technology?
Palestinians are being systematically disenfranchised, separated from their property, herded into progressively smaller areas, much as was done with native Americans, european jews under fascism, and blacks under the former SA regime... The Israelis are practicing a slow motion version of Lebensraum... they covet every single square inch of the area, and would gladly eject or exterminate the Pals if left to their own devices...
And the difference between Palestinian suicide bombers extinguishing themselves in a crowded cafe differs just how from the IDF putting an artillery barrage on a crowded Palestinian neighborhood? Technology?
Sure, they did live there, but they were never in control of the land. You can't argue with that.
Since the 6-day war the Palestinian areas have continuously increased in size, all as a result of Israeli pullbacks. What you wrote is a horrid misrepresentation of what happened at best, and a straightforward lie, at worst.
They really are left to their own devices... and could have exterminated the Palestinians at any point during any of the wars started by Israel's neighbors.
Well, it differs mostly in the fact that IDF targets terrorist leaders, and Palestinians target innocent civilians. The failure of those who are against Israel to acknowledge that difference can only be attributed to a deep hatred for the Jews, because it is objectively undeniable.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,823
- 33,852
- 136
Israel is the dominant power in the "occupied territories". Israel is the state responsible for the wellbeing of the people under its jurisdiction. Instead of owning up to its responsibility for the Palestinian people under its governance, Israel has instead relegated the Palestinians to a second class status, isolating them in the territories, depriving them of the benefits of Israeli citizenship while also denying them the right to self determination. Responsibility for the radicalization of the Palestinian people can be laid in large part at the feet of the Israeli state. Note that I do not ignore the acts of neighboring governments in the radicalization of the Palestinians but as the sovereign power in the territories the Israeli state holds the greater share of responsibility.
Your rewriting of history in attempt to legitimize the Israeli reconquest of Palestine is noted and rejected. Arabs have lived in Israel/Palestine for centuries.
Also, kindly point out my expressions of hate.
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,823
- 33,852
- 136
Grow up and quit trying to play the anti-semitic card, it just isn't going to work. If a military, any military, targets densely populated areas with explosive devices, whether bombs or artillary shells, they do so with the knowledge that they will kill innocent people. To claim that it is morally acceptable to do so simply because there may be combatants in the mix is ridiculous. It is a form of collective punishment.
What does it say about the leaders who purposely hide in these areas to become martyrs when they and civilians are killed?
Ottoman begain rule in 1517, under this theory. So because they once controlled there land 500 years ago, we should automatically give them control now?
From Meuge-
"Sure, they did live there, but they were never in control of the land. You can't argue with that. "
Neither were the Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis or Israelis until the withdrawal of colonial forces afer WW2...
"Since the 6-day war the Palestinian areas have continuously increased in size, all as a result of Israeli pullbacks. What you wrote is a horrid misrepresentation of what happened at best, and a straightforward lie, at worst."
Uhh-huh... What about before the six day war? And the fact that the world community has repeatedly demanded that Israel withdraw from all the territory taken in that conflict? It's like claiming that a kidnapper who releases some of his victims is a good guy...
And this disingenuous bit of Klan-baiting-
"Well, it differs mostly in the fact that IDF targets terrorist leaders, and Palestinians target innocent civilians. The failure of those who are against Israel to acknowledge that difference can only be attributed to a deep hatred for the Jews, because it is objectively undeniable."
It's not about Jews, it's about the govt of Israel. There is a difference. And the allegation that the Israelis only target terrorists is extremely dishonest. There's no moral highground in claiming that wanton destruction of civilians is justified if it's allegedly collateral damage... or that the bulldozing of palestinian homes and fields is anything other than barbaric group retribution for the actions of a few...
"Sure, they did live there, but they were never in control of the land. You can't argue with that. "
Neither were the Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis or Israelis until the withdrawal of colonial forces afer WW2...
"Since the 6-day war the Palestinian areas have continuously increased in size, all as a result of Israeli pullbacks. What you wrote is a horrid misrepresentation of what happened at best, and a straightforward lie, at worst."
Uhh-huh... What about before the six day war? And the fact that the world community has repeatedly demanded that Israel withdraw from all the territory taken in that conflict? It's like claiming that a kidnapper who releases some of his victims is a good guy...
And this disingenuous bit of Klan-baiting-
"Well, it differs mostly in the fact that IDF targets terrorist leaders, and Palestinians target innocent civilians. The failure of those who are against Israel to acknowledge that difference can only be attributed to a deep hatred for the Jews, because it is objectively undeniable."
It's not about Jews, it's about the govt of Israel. There is a difference. And the allegation that the Israelis only target terrorists is extremely dishonest. There's no moral highground in claiming that wanton destruction of civilians is justified if it's allegedly collateral damage... or that the bulldozing of palestinian homes and fields is anything other than barbaric group retribution for the actions of a few...
That's how wars are fought, unfortunately. The allies killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians during the bombing of Dresden in WWII.
In either case, killing a few civilians along with a terrorist leader is a horrible thing to do, but given no other option, I can't fault the IDF for doing it. Killing a hundred children in a nightclub, for the purpose of killing a hundred children at a nightclub on the other hand...
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,823
- 33,852
- 136
Pure B.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian ==>
Palestinians claim to have a mixed ancestry. Arabs, Crusaders, Romans, Jews, and other people have all settled in the region and intermarried [6][7]. Many of their descendants converted to Christianity and later to Islam, and spoke different languages depending on the lingua franca of the time. For the most part, the Arabization of the Palestinians began in Umayyad times. Increasing conversions to Islam among the local population, together with the immigration of Arabs from Arabia and inland Syria, led to the replacement of Aramaic by Arabic as the area's dominant language. Among the cultural survivals from pre-Arab times are the significant Palestinian Christian community (and smaller Jewish and Samaritan ones) as well as Aramaic loanwords in the local dialect. Palestinians, like most other Arabic speakers, thus combine pre-Arab and Arab ancestry; the precise mixture is a matter of debate, on which genetic evidence (see below) has begun to shed some light, apparently confirming Ibn Khaldun's widely accepted argument that most Arabic speakers descend mainly from acculturated non-Arabs.
The Palestinian Bedouin, however, are much more securely known to be Arab by ancestry as well as by culture; their distinctively conservative dialects and pronunciation of qaaf as gaaf group them with other Bedouin across the Arab world and confirm their separate history. Arabic onomastic elements began to appear in Edomite inscriptions starting in the 6th century BC, and are nearly universal in the inscriptions of the Nabataeans, who arrived there in the 4th-3rd centuries BC[8]. It has thus been suggested that the present day Bedouins of the region may have their origins as early as this period. A few Bedouin are found as far north as Galilee; however, these seem to be much later arrivals, rather than descendants of the Arabs that Sargon II settled in Samaria in 720 BC.
As genetic techniques have advanced, it has become possible to look directly into the question of the ancestry of the Palestinians. In recent years, many genetic surveys have suggested that Jews and Palestinians (and in some cases other Levantines) are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [9] [10] [11] [12]. (this collection contains more links to genetic studies of Jewish and middle eastern populations.) These studies look at the prevalence of specific inherited genetic differences (polymorphism) among populations, which then allow the relatedness of these populations to be determined, and their ancestry to be traced back (see population genetics). These differences can be the cause of genetic disease or be completely neutral (see Single nucleotide polymorphism) ; they can be inherited maternally (mitochondrial DNA), paternally (Y chromosome), or as a mixture from both parents ; the results obtained may vary from polymorphism to polymorphism. One study [13]on congenital deafness identified an allele only found in Palestinian and Ashkenazi communities, suggesting a common origin ; an investigation [14] of a Y-chromosome polymorphism found Lebanese, Palestinian, and Sephardic populations to be particularly closely related ; a third study [15], looking at Human leukocyte antigen differences among a broad range of populations, found Palestinians to be particularly closely related to Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews, as well as Middle-Eastern and Mediterranean populations. (The latter study by Antonio Arnaiz-Villena has been the subject of intense controversy, it was retracted by the journal and removed from its website, leading to further controversy; the main accusations made were that the authors used their scientific findings to justify making one-sided political proclamations in the paper; that the retraction followed lobbyist pressure because the results contradicted certain political beliefs; some suggested that the broad scientific interpretation was based on too narrow data [16], whereas others support the scientific content as valid - for more information on the controversy : [17], [18], [19], [20].) If this close relatedness is true, it would confirm both Jews' and Palestinians' historical claims, suggesting a common Northwest Semitic ancestry. However, the results are complex, much work remains to be carried out, and partial results can be interpreted to suit diverse political agendas.
One point in which the two populations appear to contrast is in the proportion of sub-Saharan African genes which have entered their gene pools. One study found that Middle Eastern Arabs (specifically Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouin), unlike other Middle Eastern populations (specifically Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Azeris, Georgians, and Near Eastern Jews), had what appears to be a substantial gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa (amounting to 10-15% of lineages) within the past three millennia, possibly due to the slave trade[21
So if that is how wars are fought then would you please stop b!tching about terrorist killing civilians. Because as you say that it is how wars are fought and it doesn't put isreal on any moral high ground.
5150Joker
Diamond Member
5150Joker
Diamond Member
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 384
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter