Why do poor people always rationalize why they don't have things outside their means?

[Orsorum]

Because human history is filled with class struggle; societies, particularly more modern, consumeristic societies, project and support an image of wealth and consumption as being necessary for personal meaning and satisfaction. Rationalizing why "less" is better (such as a smaller house, an old truck, etc.) is often a means of pushing back against that judgement and instilling value in what a person possesses at that moment. In short, it's a defense mechanism, and a very healthy one I think.

It could also be that a person really does prefer a smaller house. I know that I could afford a pretty large place, but there's no need to have a living room, den, home office, main room, kitchen, dining room, family room, and three bedrooms, even if I had a family. I could never decorate that much space let alone enjoy it.

So, in that sense, I am very much happy with a two bedroom, one office, two bathroom house, because I can enjoy it but I don't have more than I need. I don't view that as rationalizing, but knowing what makes me happy and content and living to that point.

Any more than that is excess for the sake of excess, and is the epitome of consumerism.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
I didn't edit anything out..I just selected a portion of your post. Economics isn't even remotely near my field; better luck next time.

Ahh, now you're telling me to rationalize...I thought you didn't like it when people did that?

I could easily afford a new truck now, but I'm happy with mine. Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? If it gets scratched, I don't get all pissy. Insurance is cheap. I can take it offroad without fear of the aforementioned scratches ruining my day. I don't want to spend a lot of money on my vehicles. What I have gets the job done quite well, and I have no need for anything "better".

My sense of self-worth is not based on my economic appearance and social status, unlike many other people.

You edited enough to show your point. The more I have made in life the more I have donated in time and money. No intelligent person is happy with not getting more, doing more, making more. That doesn't always get measured in material things though.

You rationalized yourself and used a luxury car as a comparison

I never said I didn't like people doing this, I said I found it odd and wondered why.

You defense though is that many don't care if their vehicle gets scratched, the insurance costs etc...it all comes with that territory of affording it.

 

[dug777]

It's become painfully obvious the OP is just after attention, rather than answers (of which he's received many).

I advocate ignoring him

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Because human history is filled with class struggle; societies, particularly more modern, consumeristic societies, project and support an image of wealth and consumption as being necessary for personal meaning and satisfaction. Rationalizing why "less" is better (such as a smaller house, an old truck, etc.) is often a means of pushing back against that judgement and instilling value in what a person possesses at that moment. In short, it's a defense mechanism, and a very healthy one I think.

It could also be that a person really does prefer a smaller house. I know that I could afford a pretty large place, but there's no need to have a living room, den, home office, main room, kitchen, dining room, family room, and three bedrooms, even if I had a family. I could never decorate that much space let alone enjoy it.

So, in that sense, I am very much happy with a two bedroom, one office, two bathroom house, because I can enjoy it but I don't have more than I need. I don't view that as rationalizing, but knowing what makes me happy and content and living to that point.

Any more than that is excess for the sake of excess, and is the epitome of consumerism.

You aren't rationalizing though and that makes sense. Your not going out and saying 'even if someone gave me a "mansion and a gazillion dollars" i'd still stay in my smaller home. That is really being happy.

This is how I look at things. I am happy with 4 bedrooms as one is my master, another for guests. My wife has a room and I have a room. We have two full baths, i'd love another 1/2 bath in my office...but it's not a deal breaker. Our guests have a bathroom and we have one. My parents have about 3 times the house I do in size and it's much newer and loaded. Mine is pretty updated but construction design has improved a lot in the last decade to maximizing space and opening it up.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: dug777
It's become painfully obvious the OP is just after attention, rather than answers (of which he's received many).

I advocate ignoring him

so do so please. You have not contributed anything.

I have responded to 'answers'. Most of what was recieved though was nothing to do with the topic like your post.

You do realize you can skip topics on OT right?

 

[BoberFett]

You're happy with a four bedroom house? Wow, you're poor. Buy a bigger one and stop rationalizing that four bedrooms is enough.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee

My goals are to always do more, make more, get more.

Consumerism at its finest.

Originally posted by: senseamp
Why do materialistic people get pissed off when you don't play their games and don't use material possessions like cars, houses, jewelry to keep score?

:thumbsup:

I love my (~10yo) truck. I love my job. Life is awesome.

And yes, I'll rationalize why my pickup is better than a luxury car...because it has 4wd and a tow strap in the bed.

Why'd you edit out how I also do and give more to others at the same time...not really consumerism at all, this the economics chapter your on now though?

Now rationalize how your 10yo truck is better than the new ones in the same work class or better.

I didn't edit anything out..I just selected a portion of your post. Economics isn't even remotely near my field; better luck next time.

Ahh, now you're telling me to rationalize...I thought you didn't like it when people did that?

I could easily afford a new truck now, but I'm happy with mine. Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? If it gets scratched, I don't get all pissy. Insurance is cheap. I can take it offroad without fear of the aforementioned scratches ruining my day. I don't want to spend a lot of money on my vehicles. What I have gets the job done quite well, and I have no need for anything "better".

My sense of self-worth is not based on my economic appearance and social status, unlike many other people.

That's exactly why I bought a car well below my means too. I don't worry about anything except having fun in it. If I break something or scratch something, no big deal. I can open the hatch and throw my bike in the back without worrying about scuffing up some fancy leather seats. I can treat it as a beater and fully exploit it instead of putting it on a pedestal and pampering it. I don't have time for that. I need something that is a blast to drive and will help me do things I want it to do, not an extra headache to take care of. I appreciate nice looking and expensive cars, but it doesn't mean I want to own and maintain one myself. I'd feel bad treating a really expensive car the way I treat my current car, and I have no inclination to maintain an expensive car, so why would I want to spend more money to feel bad?

 

[electronicmaji]

Polls have been done that show once people reach a stable income of about 50 - 75 k bigger amounts of income does not make them happier. For me sure a little bit more would be nice but then again my family makes 35k a year and has 4 in the household...

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
You defense though is that many don't care if their vehicle gets scratched, the insurance costs etc...it all comes with that territory of affording it.

Why is it even a "defense"? You're basically admitting to 'attacking' my choice of vehicle - and I already said that higher costs come with a newer/high-end vehicle, and I have elected not to own a new vehicle for that reason, even though I could if I wanted to.

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I like being content with what I have.
I can walk in places like best buy, circuit city and there isn't a single thing in there I want.
What I have works for me.

I live in a one bedroom apartment.
Can I move to something bigger, sure !
But I like what I have.

There are things I would like to do like travel, but overall I'm pretty happy with what I have.

Your acting like "poor people" don't know what they are missing and are just lying to themselves because they can't afford better.

You got it backwards.
You don't realize what its like to be just well off enough to have what you need and can be content with versus working yourself to death to keep up with everyone else, just because you feel you should.

My father is quite well off. Could afford a nicer home, cars and luxury.
What does he like ? A small apartment with a front porch where he can sleep during the day, sit on the porch in the afternoons with some ice tea and a rocking chair , watching the birds and enjoying the view.

One day you will learn whats important in life and NONE of it has to do with money or poor or rich. You need to stop and examine your life if your thinking possessions are what makes your life worth living.

This is exactly like what I was talking about. You don't think those things can be found in a larger apartment or even a house.

I am not talking about being cash-strapped in one...if you can 'afford' it you should be able to have both. However; I am assuming that is not the case. Very few wealthy people rent apartments...it makes no sense to rent.

And this is exactly what we are trying to get through your head. Sure, those things could be found in a larger apartment or even a house - but if we're happy where we are, what is the big deal!?

It appears to me as though you worry too much about what people think of you.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

i'm with sense on the vehicle part. i've seen everyone that owns a very nice truck, car, or anything. treat it like a jewel compaired to anyone else that owns a beater and runs the thing ragged and has fun with it. why buy a nice car that you eventually wont use it fully. i enjoy my car, looks like a real pice, but its got it where it counts.
i've never lived in anything larger than a small apartment. i've got enough things that i enjoy, that i wanted that can fill a single person apartment. i wont need more than that, and i dont want to waste time, energy, and money on something i dont need. its pointless. im from a low income family, living from check to check, eating in is far more enjoyable than eating out. you can always make more if your still hungry instead of ordering more. you get to smell it cook, and that i(and many others) know is far nicer than overhearing someone elses conversation. same with movies, i prefer watching it in the comfort of my own chair/bed than in one of those damn movie chairs that i hate.
im happy with where i am honestly, though i'm not at home. this is my parents im talking about, and even in the military, i earn at most, 17k a year(24-30k right now though for a year). thats borderline poverty if i recall corretly.
with what i've been through in the past 4 years, i know i can easily go out into the world and live almost anywhere.(a room the size of your normal bedroom, with two people in it one toilet per four people and two showers. tents with 15 to 70 other people and no privacy. no kitchen, and some of the worst chow hall food and MRE's that taste like crap)
It's not how nice or expensive something is. It's if you enjoy it, if you enjoy it, what the hell does it matter to anyone else?

edit: spelling and additions.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: dug777
It's become painfully obvious the OP is just after attention, rather than answers (of which he's received many).

I advocate ignoring him

so do so please. You have not contributed anything.

I have responded to 'answers'. Most of what was received though was nothing to do with the topic like your post.

You do realize you can skip topics on OT right?

You just don't get it, do you?

I shall try to explain this to you, but I can't see why I'll succeed where others more gifted than me have failed.


1) Your Op, thread title, posts, and general attitude make you sound like a pretentious git. Not knowing you personally I can't say if this is the case, all I've got to go on is your posting.

2) Against everything you appear believe, it's more than possible to lead an extremely satisfying and fulfilling existence without having the most expensive possessions.

3) There's absolutely nothing wrong, unhealthy, or unnatural with being able to see that you have what you need to lead a satisfying and fulfilling existence.


I'll theorise that you are unhappy with your lot, and therefore can't understand why those with less than you have any right to be happy.

Sucks to be you.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You're happy with a four bedroom house? Wow, you're poor. Buy a bigger one and stop rationalizing that four bedrooms is enough.

QFT. The OP needs to look in the mirror and realize he's doing the same thing as the folks he's complaining about.

edited for confusing folks.

 

[dug777]

.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

capt, if you cant figure out that, that is sarcasm layed down pretty heavy.....you should just walk away.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
capt, if you cant figure out that, that is sarcasm layed down pretty heavy.....you should just walk away.

My comment is not made at Boberfett but the OP.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: CadetLee

My goals are to always do more, make more, get more.

Consumerism at its finest.

Originally posted by: senseamp
Why do materialistic people get pissed off when you don't play their games and don't use material possessions like cars, houses, jewelry to keep score?

:thumbsup:

I love my (~10yo) truck. I love my job. Life is awesome.

And yes, I'll rationalize why my pickup is better than a luxury car...because it has 4wd and a tow strap in the bed.

Why'd you edit out how I also do and give more to others at the same time...not really consumerism at all, this the economics chapter your on now though?

Now rationalize how your 10yo truck is better than the new ones in the same work class or better.

because its paied off

i have a near 20 year old car, and i wont buy a new one untill it dies, why because it doesnt cost me anything other then gas and normal matinence like oil changes
a new car woudl require those things as well as a payment, coudl i afford it, yes eaisily, is it needed, absoutly not, the people i work with and the people i am friends with dont give a shit about what car you drive or what clothes you wear or any of that childish shit

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: electronicmaji
Polls have been done that show once people reach a stable income of about 50 - 75 k bigger amounts of income does not make them happier. For me sure a little bit more would be nice but then again my family makes 35k a year and has 4 in the household...

that would depend on area though wouldnt it.

where i live 35K is not bad. you can survive on it if you are smart. 50-75k you would be doing pretty good.

again if you are smart.

where my dad lives (southern IL) 35k is great heh.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: jagec

No...you made the assumption that people who are content with their lifestyles must be wrong, and are secretly pining for the richer things in life. There are some people who bring it up overly much and have an inferiority complex, but they aren't the majority. When you posted on ATOT about it and asked for comments, people repeated the obvious truth--that not all the expensive stuff is much better than the cheaper stuff, that spending more money isn't the key to happiness, and so on.

You just don't seem to get it. Again you started assuming that this was all a show put on to convince ourselves that we're doing OK when actually we'd love to own more, more more!

We're not getting "defensive", we're trying to explain our position. If your core belief is that 'poor' people are miserable, than no matter how happy they really are, you'll wrongly see that as a poor cover for the actual state of affairs. And you'll pick the few people who actually ARE miserable and trying to hide it as representative of the whole, and claim that as a proof of your flawed convictions. This is classic human psychology...self-fulfilling prophecy, the placebo effect, and stereotypes ALL stem from our tendency to come to a conclusion based on a few experiences, and then seek evidence that shores up these beliefs while unconsciously rejecting any evidence to the contrary. I'm not blaming you or claiming that you'll less intelligent because of this...we all do it...but try to surpass your natural tendencies in this matter, and consider other possibilities.

Cliffs: OP is a dick who doesn't get it?

No, no assumption. People have flat out said they think their POS escort with a mirror falling off is better than any Ferrari and that even if they had the money they'd still keep that car.

Talking about higher end restaurants, they go off on how the food there is a waste and talk about some bad experience usually that they 'had' at an even more pricey place.

I never said ALL POOR PEOPLE though.

Again though I think something in you is being defensive of this. I don't see how your pseudo-psych evaluation applies though.

etc.

Dug777 knows a lot about dick.

WTF? Look at your thread title:

"Why do poor people always rationalize why they don't have things outside their means? "



Look it's not your fault for not understanding the needs of other people. You were apparently born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have always had nice things--and as a result you don't get what it's like to live a simple life.

Do yourself a favor and go 2 months without spending anything that's not necessary to living, and see if you're any less happy or more happy during this period--and maybe you'll start to be the least bit enlightened..

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You're happy with a four bedroom house? Wow, you're poor. Buy a bigger one and stop rationalizing that four bedrooms is enough.

QFT. The OP needs to look in the mirror and realize he's doing the same thing as the folks he's complaining about.

edited for confusing folks.

Nope I wasn't. I will not say that if I could upgrade I wouldn't. I am saying I am happy with what I have now though. There is a difference. If a million dollars landed in my lap would I move...maybe. It's not enough to significantly change my lifestyle drastically. I'd more than likely pay off my debts, bank the rest and have the interest supplement my income.

However nice troll attempt. Please read better next time.

Let me explain though since you keep coming back to the thread and posting up attacks to me instead of focusing on the topic.

Rationalizing is saying you own say a 1987 IROC with a bit of rust and other than that a capable car. It's paid for, gets you from A to B, and you don't worry about it. Insurance is cheap. Unfortunately you are also barely making ends meet. You may have a nice house and stuff, but you really don't have the coin for a car payment.

Now in discussion you come out with even if you had a gazillion dollars you'd keep the car because you'd only have to worry about dings and hiring insurance.

The thing about affording something is you tend to treat it like it's the consumable it is and not something to put in a shrine. No one usually wants their cars dinged up or would slide crap across the hood/roof.

I am sure you will be back with something witty.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: jagec

No...you made the assumption that people who are content with their lifestyles must be wrong, and are secretly pining for the richer things in life. There are some people who bring it up overly much and have an inferiority complex, but they aren't the majority. When you posted on ATOT about it and asked for comments, people repeated the obvious truth--that not all the expensive stuff is much better than the cheaper stuff, that spending more money isn't the key to happiness, and so on.

You just don't seem to get it. Again you started assuming that this was all a show put on to convince ourselves that we're doing OK when actually we'd love to own more, more more!

We're not getting "defensive", we're trying to explain our position. If your core belief is that 'poor' people are miserable, than no matter how happy they really are, you'll wrongly see that as a poor cover for the actual state of affairs. And you'll pick the few people who actually ARE miserable and trying to hide it as representative of the whole, and claim that as a proof of your flawed convictions. This is classic human psychology...self-fulfilling prophecy, the placebo effect, and stereotypes ALL stem from our tendency to come to a conclusion based on a few experiences, and then seek evidence that shores up these beliefs while unconsciously rejecting any evidence to the contrary. I'm not blaming you or claiming that you'll less intelligent because of this...we all do it...but try to surpass your natural tendencies in this matter, and consider other possibilities.

Cliffs: OP is a dick who doesn't get it?

No, no assumption. People have flat out said they think their POS escort with a mirror falling off is better than any Ferrari and that even if they had the money they'd still keep that car.

Talking about higher end restaurants, they go off on how the food there is a waste and talk about some bad experience usually that they 'had' at an even more pricey place.

I never said ALL POOR PEOPLE though.

Again though I think something in you is being defensive of this. I don't see how your pseudo-psych evaluation applies though.

etc.

Dug777 knows a lot about dick.

WTF? Look at your thread title:

"Why do poor people always rationalize why they don't have things outside their means? "



Look it's not your fault for not understanding the needs of other people. You were apparently born with a silver spoon in your mouth and have always had nice things--and as a result you don't get what it's like to live a simple life.

Do yourself a favor and go 2 months without spending anything that's not necessary to living, and see if you're any less happy or more happy during this period--and maybe you'll start to be the least bit enlightened..

I was not born with a silver spoon actually, at the time of my birth my dad was recently out of the draft and finishing up college. They were eating only noodles and butter if lucky at that time. Within 5-6 years though my father had moved up very quickly in the business world.

When I left home I did college on my own. I had money in the bank but I was living pretty low end. I had used furniture, I shopped as cheap as I could, I didn't ever go out. I don't think I was ever in need of telling someone that I was happy eating 3 for $1 mac and cheese and ramen and that even if I won the lottery I'd stick with it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You're happy with a four bedroom house? Wow, you're poor. Buy a bigger one and stop rationalizing that four bedrooms is enough.

QFT. The OP needs to look in the mirror and realize he's doing the same thing as the folks he's complaining about.

edited for confusing folks.

Nope I wasn't. I will not say that if I could upgrade I wouldn't. I am saying I am happy with what I have now though. There is a difference. If a million dollars landed in my lap would I move...maybe. It's not enough to significantly change my lifestyle drastically. I'd more than likely pay off my debts, bank the rest and have the interest supplement my income.

However nice troll attempt. Please read better next time.

Let me explain though since you keep coming back to the thread and posting up attacks to me instead of focusing on the topic.

Rationalizing is saying you own say a 1987 IROC with a bit of rust and other than that a capable car. It's paid for, gets you from A to B, and you don't worry about it. Insurance is cheap. Unfortunately you are also barely making ends meet. You may have a nice house and stuff, but you really don't have the coin for a car payment.

Now in discussion you come out with even if you had a gazillion dollars you'd keep the car because you'd only have to worry about dings and hiring insurance.

The thing about affording something is you tend to treat it like it's the consumable it is and not something to put in a shrine. No one usually wants their cars dinged up or would slide crap across the hood/roof.

I am sure you will be back with something witty.

Read your OP, where do you talk about having a gazillion dollars. Where do I talk about a gazillion dollars or even cars? Are you this delusional and need to make-up stuff to justify yourself? You're complaining about poor people justifying what they own. Then you do it. So sad.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I have a fairly nice car. Definitely not high end, but not a beater. And to be honest, I miss having a beater. I'm sure in a decade my current car will become a beater, so if I stick with it long enough things will turn out in the end

And lets compare how two different people can watch the same game and see what the differences are:
Person A:
Goes to the park early, hangs out with other fans tailgating and grilling.
Goes in the park and is in a crowd of people all rooting and cheering.
Hangs out in the park while the crowd is dispersing with a few other people chatting about the game.

Person B:
Comes to the event in a limo 20 minutes before the event.
Goes up to a catered box with a business associate and his wife.
Watches the game with the windows closed.
Leaves as soon as it's close to over.

Person B came and watched the game.
Person A came and experienced the game.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Read your OP, where do you talk about having a gazillion dollars. Where do I talk about a gazillion dollars or even cars? Are you this delusional and need to make-up stuff to justify yourself? You're complaining about poor people justifying what they own. Then you do it. So sad.

You didn't talk about it...I was clarifying what rationalizing meant since you don't seem to understand.

There is no problem being ok/justified in what you own.

Please re-read, if you have a hard time ask mom and dad to help you.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Read your OP, where do you talk about having a gazillion dollars. Where do I talk about a gazillion dollars or even cars? Are you this delusional and need to make-up stuff to justify yourself? You're complaining about poor people justifying what they own. Then you do it. So sad.

You didn't talk about it...I was clarifying what rationalizing meant since you don't seem to understand.

There is no problem being ok/justified in what you own.

Please re-read, if you have a hard time ask mom and dad to help you.

If 'There is no problem being ok/justified in what you own.', why are you complaining about poor people doing so?

My parents will help you understand your OP if you'd like.

 

[lokiju]

Someone needs to start listening to Dave Ramsey.

He'll change your whole POV on finances and what's the "norm"