Why do people say Vick can't be a good QB?

[Miramonti]

He's a great qb to watch, but not a great qb yet.

No reason he can't be one of the greats eventually tho...he wants to win, he's teachable, and he's damn talented.

Winning makes a winner as a pro athlete tho...and the only way to be considered a winner is to win the big games.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Vick is very young...he's only six months older than Eli Manning. On top of that, he only has four seasons under his belt. Compare his numbers to another guy people said could never throw the ball - Donovan McNabb. Look at Vick's numbers last year, compared to McNabb's numbers after his fourth year. Very similar - McNabb threw less interceptions, but had less than half the rushing yards. On top of that, after 4 years, McNabb was still two years older than Vick is now. I'd say he turned out ok.....also, passing numbers aside, compare the Falcon's record with him and without him. He's a great playmaker, and he will be a great QB....I'm a Dallas fan too, so don't tell me I'm a fanboy....haters just need to stop talking is all.

Oh come on, McNabb played 10 games his 4th year Vick played 15. if you extrapolate McNabb to 15 games, here are the stat comparisons, which aren't even close:

Att Comp Pct Yards YPA TD Int Rate
321 181 56.4 2313 7.21 14 12 78.1 (Vick)
546 317 58.4 3437 6.34 26 9 86.0 (Mick)

Vick hasn't proven anything yet, and will remain overrated until he does so.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: akodi
vick isn't a very accurate qb, he makes awesome plays with the ball but his plays take so long to develop. nfl defenses will catch on and contain him...eventually. at the same time the only real receiver he has is crumpler, dez white and finneran are not the receivers that can get it done. it's a pity that price turned out to be a bust.

Here's the bad part: Tampa Bay already HAS figured out how to stop him. If other teams would just figure out what they do that works so well against him, they'd all be just as good.

 

[tm37]

After the rookie yeatrs it looked as though The pats had made a mistake as the second player taken was selected as the all rookie QB. He also won more games.

However do you think anyone today would take mirer over bledsoe?

In Dallas Aikmans first year they was actually a QB controversy as another rookie actually WON A GAME while Aikman won none. The other guy was traded for multiple picks as was gonna be the next comming.

Any one remember STEVE WALSH?

Finally a few years back Marino got hurt and his back -up lit it up and PLayed Great for 5-6 games. As a free agent He cashed in and Detroit with Barry Sanders and a player that many felt was better than Marino was going to take over the NFL. The recievers were all good and well it was a huge flop SCOTT MITCHELL.

Before the draft a few Years ago Mike Riley wanted to take a QB in the sixth round. The chargers had 2 6th round picks. Beathard over rode Riley because he did not want a QB that "could not win the starting Job in college" The Chargers selected a LB with there first 6th rounder and then took a higher rated QB with the second. JJ Sauer andyone?

Trying to pridict the QB sucess is very tough as many QB's only work in certin systems and previouys sucess in one system does not mean sucess in another. Also there tends not to be any trending trhat you can look at other than MOST Sucessfull QB's are there by year 4 or 5.

For every "rule" they develop 3 or 4 guys break the rule.

2nd round QB was run out of ATL because he was selfish and did not pocess the skills.

Tampa Ran out it's starter because he "was not winner" TWICE they have done this.

Seattle traded a young running back because he could not stand up to the pounding a back takes and could not catch and he fumbled too much.

do we need to list more?

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
He's a gamer, he's sick, he's all of the above. Anyone who would complain about him should try being a Lions fan for a while!

Getting the job done is the main thing, it doesn't matter how he does it. If he can rush for 100+ yards and a couple TDs in a game and scramble away from a couple sacks, he's earning his money! He's just a natural talent and a specimen. I wish the Lions had some natural ability in that position. No other team would give a QB this long to develop - I think the Lions brass is too proud to admit that they made a mistake by handing the reins over to Joey Blue Skies.

anyway yeah... i'd take Vick in a heartbeat! great player - definitely among the most unique QBs active at the moment.

Actually, I think this'll be a breakout year for Harrington. He looked really sharp in some of his pre-season games.

 

[Koenigsegg]

Originally posted by: Kev

Originally posted by: Deeko
Vick is very young...he's only six months older than Eli Manning. On top of that, he only has four seasons under his belt. Compare his numbers to another guy people said could never throw the ball - Donovan McNabb. Look at Vick's numbers last year, compared to McNabb's numbers after his fourth year. Very similar - McNabb threw less interceptions, but had less than half the rushing yards. On top of that, after 4 years, McNabb was still two years older than Vick is now. I'd say he turned out ok.....also, passing numbers aside, compare the Falcon's record with him and without him. He's a great playmaker, and he will be a great QB....I'm a Dallas fan too, so don't tell me I'm a fanboy....haters just need to stop talking is all.

Oh come on, McNabb played 10 games his 4th year Vick played 15. if you extrapolate McNabb to 15 games, here are the stat comparisons, which aren't even close:

Att Comp Pct Yards YPA TD Int Rate
321 181 56.4 2313 7.21 14 12 78.1 (Vick)
546 317 58.4 3437 6.34 26 9 86.0 (Mick)

Vick hasn't proven anything yet, and will remain overrated until he does so.

Ha, pwned.

 

[RollWave]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Vick is very young...he's only six months older than Eli Manning. On top of that, he only has four seasons under his belt. Compare his numbers to another guy people said could never throw the ball - Donovan McNabb. Look at Vick's numbers last year, compared to McNabb's numbers after his fourth year. Very similar - McNabb threw less interceptions, but had less than half the rushing yards. On top of that, after 4 years, McNabb was still two years older than Vick is now. I'd say he turned out ok.....also, passing numbers aside, compare the Falcon's record with him and without him. He's a great playmaker, and he will be a great QB....I'm a Dallas fan too, so don't tell me I'm a fanboy....haters just need to stop talking is all.

Vick doesnt have a pure passing form. As a result he will always be EH.

 

[habib89]

vick definately has talent and athletic ability.. i dont' think anyone is saying other wise.. for me, and it seems for lots of people here, vick just doesn't have the ability to win the big one.. not right now anyway... i think the main role of a qb is just to make decisions.. throw the ball or run it (or call plays at the line if need be).. the qb has to think quick and has to make the right decision... i don't think vick can do that.. if he has the choice to throw or run, he'll run.. he'll get pounded and by game 10, he'll be beat up..

 

[Otaking]

I thought I was watching Michael Vick play college ball, but then it turned out to be Vince Young. 😀 :beer:

Oligatory GO HORNS!

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: Otaking
I thought I was watching Michael Vick play college ball, but then it turned out to be Vince Young. 😀 :beer:

Oligatory GO HORNS!

Vince is a terrible thrower, worse than Michael Vick. I guess you can compare them in running, but there's no doubt Vick is faster..

I guess Vince is taller though, I'll give him that.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: meltdown75
He's a gamer, he's sick, he's all of the above. Anyone who would complain about him should try being a Lions fan for a while!

Getting the job done is the main thing, it doesn't matter how he does it. If he can rush for 100+ yards and a couple TDs in a game and scramble away from a couple sacks, he's earning his money! He's just a natural talent and a specimen. I wish the Lions had some natural ability in that position. No other team would give a QB this long to develop - I think the Lions brass is too proud to admit that they made a mistake by handing the reins over to Joey Blue Skies.

anyway yeah... i'd take Vick in a heartbeat! great player - definitely among the most unique QBs active at the moment.

Actually, I think this'll be a breakout year for Harrington. He looked really sharp in some of his pre-season games.

*taps sarcasm meter*.... er... ok

one can only hope. i would love to see him to well. i gotta hand it to the Lions if he does, because no other team would have given someone this long to develop. i think they are hoping he's worth the $ they paid him right off the get-go. Go Lions!

 

[PokerGuy]

Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

 

[Reckoner]

Ron Mexico is exciting to watch, but I think his playstyle will prevent him from ever winning a Super Bowl.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

Good passers usually average around 250 yds a game, they can't throw all day, they have to maintain balance in the offense. I'd say 300-400 yards for a QB is pretty damn good, and they usually don't have the opportunity to pass that much. Unless they're Peyton Manning or Daunte Culpepper, but that's a different story..

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

Good passers usually average around 250 yds a game, they can't throw all day, they have to maintain balance in the offense. I'd say 300-400 yards for a QB is pretty damn good, and they usually don't have the opportunity to pass that much. Unless they're Peyton Manning or Daunte Culpepper, but that's a different story..

i'd actually like to see culpepper do it without randy first.

i think part of the problem with vick has been the offensive coordinators he's worked with. no one knows yet how to harness what he is capable of doing.

it might be better to use him as a slot reciever / half back.

the worst thing to do tho is what pittsburgh did with Slash (kordell) vick could turn out to be another kordell (with a lot more talent of course).

 

[rodneyxiii]

Vick can be a good qb, but if wants to be a great qb he has to learn to think pass first and run if things break down. Steve Young learned I think Rich Gannon was also more of a scrambler but got a lot better once he became more patient and hung in there longer.

 

[Otaking]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: Otaking
I thought I was watching Michael Vick play college ball, but then it turned out to be Vince Young. 😀 :beer:

Oligatory GO HORNS!

Vince is a terrible thrower, worse than Michael Vick. I guess you can compare them in running, but there's no doubt Vick is faster..

I guess Vince is taller though, I'll give him that.

Vince was pretty much the only reason our dysfunctional team got to the Rose Bowl last year, and unfortunately, I do agree with what you've said, but I sure hope his arm is 50X better this year...

Good news is we'll have Selvin Young back, and Raymonce Taylor should light up the field.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: Otaking

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: Otaking
I thought I was watching Michael Vick play college ball, but then it turned out to be Vince Young. 😀 :beer:

Oligatory GO HORNS!

Vince is a terrible thrower, worse than Michael Vick. I guess you can compare them in running, but there's no doubt Vick is faster..

I guess Vince is taller though, I'll give him that.

Vince was pretty much the only reason our dysfunctional team got to the Rose Bowl last year, and unfortunately, I do agree with what you've said, but I sure hope his arm is 50X better this year...

Good news is we'll have Selvin Young back, and Raymonce Taylor should light up the field.

Good luck to the Horns, I think you guys are gonna finally beat OU this year. Selvin Young is gonna be a stud 😎

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

Good passers usually average around 250 yds a game, they can't throw all day, they have to maintain balance in the offense. I'd say 300-400 yards for a QB is pretty damn good, and they usually don't have the opportunity to pass that much. Unless they're Peyton Manning or Daunte Culpepper, but that's a different story..

Think big picture. A person like Culpepper, McNair and McNabb have the ability to run and throw. The point is they can flat out have a 300-400 yard game at any time. They have that ability to pull off an 8-10yrd run when under pressure..but essentially they are talented pocket passers with great running skills. Vick needs to learn how to throw.

All a team has to do is spy the QB with a decent D and that makes Vick - One dimensional. He completed 11-of-24 for 136 yards, while the Eagles stifling defense kept him from pulling off one of his signature runs. See what happens when he's limited to just throwing the ball? His team had 1 TD and got their butts handed to them.


Take away his running and you are left with a mediocre QB. Until he can prove that his arm can carry his team and a game....he's not a great QB. Who knows if we will ever see it.

He definitely has "talent"...but does he have the talent to throw and think like a great QB? Time will tell.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

Good passers usually average around 250 yds a game, they can't throw all day, they have to maintain balance in the offense. I'd say 300-400 yards for a QB is pretty damn good, and they usually don't have the opportunity to pass that much. Unless they're Peyton Manning or Daunte Culpepper, but that's a different story..

Think big picture. A person like Culpepper, McNair and McNabb have the ability to run and throw. The point is they can flat out have a 300-400 yard game at any time. They have that ability to pull off an 8-10yrd run when under pressure..but essentially they are talented pocket passers with great running skills. Vick needs to learn how to throw.

All a team has to do is spy the QB with a decent D and that makes Vick - One dimensional. He completed 11-of-24 for 136 yards, while the Eagles stifling defense kept him from pulling off one of his signature runs. See what happens when he's limited to just throwing the ball? His team had 1 TD and got their butts handed to them.


Take away his running and you are left with a mediocre QB. Until he can prove that his arm can carry his team and a game....he's not a great QB. Who knows if we will ever see it.

He definitely has "talent"...but does he have the talent to throw and think like a great QB? Time will tell.

Hey, I wasn't defending Vick in that statement. I was just pointing out to Pokerguy he didn't make a very good comparison because QBs, even the good ones very rarely throw for 300+ yards a game.

 

[hdeck]

because people are stupid.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy


Take away his running and you are left with a mediocre QB

Take away his running and he's not even a starting QB.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Hey, I wasn't defending Vick in that statement. I was just pointing out to Pokerguy he didn't make a very good comparison because QBs, even the good ones very rarely throw for 300+ yards a game.

I'm not saying you are...I'm just saying overall his game needs to improve. A QB is there to run. Too many LB's/S in this league are talented. If they spy the QB they can shut down his running for the most part. That's when he needs to learn to pass. It frees up the middle a bit more and they should use their slots/TE's better. I just don't think he can do that right now. Maybe this year..maybe never. We shall see.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Hey, I wasn't defending Vick in that statement. I was just pointing out to Pokerguy he didn't make a very good comparison because QBs, even the good ones very rarely throw for 300+ yards a game.

I'm not saying you are...I'm just saying overall his game needs to improve. A QB is there to run. Too many LB's/S in this league are talented. If they spy the QB they can shut down his running for the most part. That's when he needs to learn to pass. It frees up the middle a bit more and they should use their slots/TE's better. I just don't think he can do that right now. Maybe this year..maybe never. We shall see.

I see what you're saying, and yeah it was definitely evident in the NFC championship game last year. But he does have the physical tools to be an excellent pocket passer, he just needs to refine them. Add to that his bigger knowledge of the offense and I think he could be a pretty good QB.

 

[Yreka]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: meltdown75
He's a gamer, he's sick, he's all of the above. Anyone who would complain about him should try being a Lions fan for a while!

Getting the job done is the main thing, it doesn't matter how he does it. If he can rush for 100+ yards and a couple TDs in a game and scramble away from a couple sacks, he's earning his money! He's just a natural talent and a specimen. I wish the Lions had some natural ability in that position. No other team would give a QB this long to develop - I think the Lions brass is too proud to admit that they made a mistake by handing the reins over to Joey Blue Skies.

anyway yeah... i'd take Vick in a heartbeat! great player - definitely among the most unique QBs active at the moment.

Actually, I think this'll be a breakout year for Harrington. He looked really sharp in some of his pre-season games.

*taps sarcasm meter*.... er... ok

one can only hope. i would love to see him to well. i gotta hand it to the Lions if he does, because no other team would have given someone this long to develop. i think they are hoping he's worth the $ they paid him right off the get-go. Go Lions!

Wow, I thought I was the only one left !! Misery loves company as they say heh..

I am a Joey supporter *also an Oregon fan* and was thrilled when we drafted him. I will admit he has been somewhat of a dissapointment in the NFL, but I am not convinced it is all his fault. First of all, I HATE the west coast offense. I think its past its prime, and every D in the legue knows whats coming. Second of all, the dropsies. We have been among the lead leaders in dropped passes the past few years. Third, the damn protection is awful. Witness mondays game. The two times he got protection he made nice passes to RW.

Another thing that drives me up a tree is Mooch and Joey and Millen trying to blow sunshine up everyones a$$. Yeah I know stay positive bla bla, but JFC call a spade a spade. Your a shtty team right now, everyone is playing like sht, call them on it.

And lastly you have TONS of talent at WR.. THROW THE F%$^#^ BALL DOWN THE FIELD !
Whoever keeps calling those 8 yd patterns when its 3rd and 13 should be shot in the face with dull bullets.

Sorry to derail, I had to get that out...

Re Vick

His greatness will depend on his ability to develop in the passing game. If he can do that, he truely will be unstoppable. If he can't, he will just be another running back with a low number.