Why do people say Vick can't be a good QB?

[PokerGuy]

The great QB's have fit one of two molds. Either they are great pocket passers (Marino, Manning etc), or they are guys that are great passers, but can buy time running around when needed (Steve Young, Montana, McNabb etc). Right now, Vick is a dazzling runner. That's it. He's not a great QB, just a great open field runner.

If Vick ever gains accuracy and learns to pass first and only run when things break down, he's going to be scary good. I don't believe that will ever happen though......

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: SofaKing
Actually, I think this'll be a breakout year for Harrington. He looked really sharp in some of his pre-season games.

ROFLMAO! You need to line up behind all the people that have been saying that for years.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Kev

Originally posted by: PokerGuy


Take away his running and you are left with a mediocre QB

Take away his running and he's not even a backup QB.

Fixed.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Yreka

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: meltdown75
He's a gamer, he's sick, he's all of the above. Anyone who would complain about him should try being a Lions fan for a while!

Getting the job done is the main thing, it doesn't matter how he does it. If he can rush for 100+ yards and a couple TDs in a game and scramble away from a couple sacks, he's earning his money! He's just a natural talent and a specimen. I wish the Lions had some natural ability in that position. No other team would give a QB this long to develop - I think the Lions brass is too proud to admit that they made a mistake by handing the reins over to Joey Blue Skies.

anyway yeah... i'd take Vick in a heartbeat! great player - definitely among the most unique QBs active at the moment.

Actually, I think this'll be a breakout year for Harrington. He looked really sharp in some of his pre-season games.

*taps sarcasm meter*.... er... ok

one can only hope. i would love to see him to well. i gotta hand it to the Lions if he does, because no other team would have given someone this long to develop. i think they are hoping he's worth the $ they paid him right off the get-go. Go Lions!

Wow, I thought I was the only one left !! Misery loves company as they say heh..

I am a Joey supporter *also an Oregon fan* and was thrilled when we drafted him. I will admit he has been somewhat of a dissapointment in the NFL, but I am not convinced it is all his fault. First of all, I HATE the west coast offense. I think its past its prime, and every D in the legue knows whats coming. Second of all, the dropsies. We have been among the lead leaders in dropped passes the past few years. Third, the damn protection is awful. Witness mondays game. The two times he got protection he made nice passes to RW.

Another thing that drives me up a tree is Mooch and Joey and Millen trying to blow sunshine up everyones a$$. Yeah I know stay positive bla bla, but JFC call a spade a spade. Your a shtty team right now, everyone is playing like sht, call them on it.

And lastly you have TONS of talent at WR.. THROW THE F%$^#^ BALL DOWN THE FIELD !
Whoever keeps calling those 8 yd patterns when its 3rd and 13 should be shot in the face with dull bullets.

Sorry to derail, I had to get that out...

Re Vick

His greatness will depend on his ability to develop in the passing game. If he can do that, he truely will be unstoppable. If he can't, he will just be another running back with a low number.

I couldn't agree more about their inability, or pensiveness, in trying to stretch out the field. rarely in the last few seasons have i seen the Lions use the deep ball. secondly, i can't stand the fact that they seem to be mired in a certain type of offensive scheme. east coast, west coast, jeebus i don't care if it's the antarctic coast - MOVE THE DAMN BALL. either run it, or pass it. it's simple - sometimes it's like they should be moved back to the schoolyard to watch the kids play. maybe they would pick something up from their "scheme". lastly, i heard Damien Woody put notes on everyone's locker reminding the team of their record over the past 3-4 seasons (it's REAL bad - worst in the NFL) and asking them to step up. that is what i like to hear - someone trying to LEAD this team which i feel is a missing component at the moment. i guess we'll see tonight if they look any better, but apparently they will not be using many starters which is fine by me!

as for Joey... maybe him & Mooch just weren't meant to be. again i say GO LIONS!!!

 

[mrchan]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: bradruth
He's not a "pure" QB. He is a tremendous athlete, but QB wise...

Well first off, if he wins games, so what? But second, refer to my McNabb example. People used to say the same thing about him, look at how he's developed. 30+ TD's and less than 10 INTs, over 3000 yards, 64%....I'd call that a pretty decent pure QB.

Yeah, McNabb did that all on his own. He didn't have a guy named T.O. helping him out at all.

Please. T.O. made Steve Young a hall of famer and Jeff Garcia a pro bowler. Take away T.O. (either this year or next) and McNabb his back to his usual self.

 

[cmdavid]

he's over-hyped, thats why certain people have to shoot him down..
as a QB, he hasnt accomplished anything yet...

call me when he completes a season with a completion percentage higher than 60% and a TD:INT ratio better than 2:1

 

[jammur21]

Too prone to start scrambling instead of waiting for play to develop. Arm will never develop that way.

 

[Svnla]

Vick is not a good/accurate passer. Sometimes he relied too much on his running skill.

Of course, all will be forgiven and Vick will be vindicate if the Falcons get to the SuperBowl and win.

 

[Modeps]

Vick is a Running Back. Running Backs cant throw with enough accuracy to make a great QB.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Vick has the athletic ability and is extremely exciting and fun to watch... Still, I think he's vastly overrated until he can prove that he can win in the big games by making those around him better and throwing the ball. Running for 100 yards is great, but if you run for 100 and pass for 150, that's still only 250 when a good passer might throw for 300-400 in a game.

So by this line of reasoning Peyton Manning is overrated because he apparently can't win the big one either.

 

[packmule]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
It's going to be interesting to see what Ron Mexico does this year...

He is not a pure drop back passer true... All he does is win games. In my opinion he is a great QB like the NFL has never seen.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: bradruth
He's not a "pure" QB. He is a tremendous athlete, but QB wise...

I kinda agree. He hasn't thrown for 3000 even once yet. No matter how gifted they are, you gotta be just as good from the pocket.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: bradruth
He's not a "pure" QB. He is a tremendous athlete, but QB wise...

I kinda agree. He hasn't thrown for 3000 even once yet. No matter how gifted they are, you gotta be just as good from the pocket.

He's the new type of QB, a blend of RB and QB. Not that he'll ever throw like Peyton Manning, but he can run if he get in trouble....something you don't see P Manning doing.

 

[MrCodeDude]

He doesn't have the arm. He doesn't stay in the pocket. He always wants to move around. And while that makes football exciting to watch, that doesn't make you a great QB.

 

[Shlong]

Actually last season was basically Vick's 2nd season. In 2001 he only played in 8 games as a rookie. In 2002 15 games (consider that season 1). In 2003 he was injured & played in only 5 games. Last year he played in 15 games (season 2), but it was almost like a rookie season being he had to learn a brand new West Coast offense.

Vick won't give you pretty passing stats but he'll give you wins.

Falcons W/L Breakdown:
Vick not starting or plays a marginal amount of the game.

2004: 0-2
2003: 2-10
2002: 0-1


Vick playing for full game.

2004: 11-3
2003: 3-1
2002: 9-5-1

I believe Vick will improve though this year passing-wise, as he will be more comfortable in year 2 of the new offense. And watching him in preseason he was pretty accurate & making good/quick decisions. Where as in the past he would've run around looking for a running lane, this preseason I saw him running around to buy time for his receivers to get open & then making an accurate strike to them. Some QBs who needed time to develop:

Steve Young
Year1- 72/138, 52.2% completion, 935 yards, 3 TD, 8 INT
Year2 - 195/363, 53.7% completion 2282 yards, 8 TD, 13 INT
Year3 - 37/69, 53.6% completion, 570 yards, 10 TD, 0 INT
Year4 - 54/101, 53.5% completion, 680 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT

John Elway
Year1 - 123/259, 47.5% completion, 1663 yards, 7TD, 14INT
Year2 - 214, 380, 56.3% completion, 2598 yards, 18TD, 15INT
Year3 - 327/605, 54.0% completion, 3891 yards, 22TD, 23INT
Year4 - 280/504, 55.6% completion, 3485 yards, 19TD, 13INT
Year5 - Year 10 completion percentages: 54.6%, 55.2%, 53.6%, 58.6%, 53.7%, 55.1%

Elway didn't have a 60% completion until 11 seasons into his career.

 

[Shlong]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
He doesn't have the arm. He doesn't stay in the pocket. He always wants to move around. And while that makes football exciting to watch, that doesn't make you a great QB.

Vick has probably the strongest arm in the NFL (he throws bullets & laser passes). Accuracy & Decision-making is another matter, but I believe he'll improve this year.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: mrchan

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: bradruth
He's not a "pure" QB. He is a tremendous athlete, but QB wise...

Well first off, if he wins games, so what? But second, refer to my McNabb example. People used to say the same thing about him, look at how he's developed. 30+ TD's and less than 10 INTs, over 3000 yards, 64%....I'd call that a pretty decent pure QB.

Yeah, McNabb did that all on his own. He didn't have a guy named T.O. helping him out at all.

Please. T.O. made Steve Young a hall of famer and Jeff Garcia a pro bowler. Take away T.O. (either this year or next) and McNabb his back to his usual self.

Wow...it's apparent you know NOTHING about football.

TO made Steve Young a hall of famer? Are you smoking crack? You do realize they only played 3-4 years together and TO only had ONE thousand yard season with Steve.

I mean..since you're such a knowledgeable individual on football...you do know that Mr. Steve Young threw 6 TD's in the 1994 Super Bowl....in a season which he set the record for paser rating. Three years before T.O. was even in the league.

It's not like he didn't win 6 NFL passing titles. Named the MVP.

No way..it's those 3 years which T.O. put up 700, 500, 1000 yards, that MADE Steve Young a hall of famer.

What a complete retard. Please...for the love of everything holy and football itself...don't EVER post in a football thread again.

/thread

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: mrchan

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: bradruth
He's not a "pure" QB. He is a tremendous athlete, but QB wise...

Well first off, if he wins games, so what? But second, refer to my McNabb example. People used to say the same thing about him, look at how he's developed. 30+ TD's and less than 10 INTs, over 3000 yards, 64%....I'd call that a pretty decent pure QB.

Yeah, McNabb did that all on his own. He didn't have a guy named T.O. helping him out at all.

Please. T.O. made Steve Young a hall of famer and Jeff Garcia a pro bowler. Take away T.O. (either this year or next) and McNabb his back to his usual self.

problem with comparing McNabb to Vick is, McNabb still hasn't won anything either.

Young is the model that Vick wants to emulate, at least young won one super bowl.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
He doesn't have the arm.

Don't spew false facts, he has an INCREDIBLE arm, probably one of the strongest in the league. He can throw the ball 80 yards for christ's sake.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
He doesn't have the arm.

Don't spew false facts, he has an INCREDIBLE arm, probably one of the strongest in the league. He can throw the ball 80 yards for christ's sake.

Ryan Leaf had one of the best arms in the league.

I'm not sure he's saying arm strength.

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: SofaKing

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
He doesn't have the arm.

Don't spew false facts, he has an INCREDIBLE arm, probably one of the strongest in the league. He can throw the ball 80 yards for christ's sake.

Ryan Leaf had one of the best arms in the league.

I'm not sure he's saying arm strength.

"He doesn't have the arm" is referring to his arm strength, I'm sure. He has the arm, he just needs to use it correctly.

 

[murphy55d]

He is clueless when it comes to the passing game. No other way to put it. It's like he's doing the Qb checkdown backwards. He looks for a running lane, then goes into his WR checkdowns.

He is not accurate, he doesn't make good decisions. He's Ryan Leaf with legs. If Vick didn't have his athletic ability, he'd be the laughing stock of the NFL, just as Ryan Leaf was.