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Why do people not like Empire Strikes Back ?

A

amoeba

Diamond Member
I gathered from the best trilogy thread that people really didn't like Empire Strikes Back as much as the other 2 movies. To me, Empire Strikes Back was the best in the trilogy. It was serious and less campy. The Battle of Hoth at the beginning of Empire was amazing. The Pacing was tight. The implication of the father/son relationship at the end of Empire combined with Luke getting his hand cut off set up for Return of the Jedi brilliantly.

Maybe its because I just don't like Lucas's direction, since Empire is the only one not directed by Lucas ( Irvin Kershner).

Anyways, let me know your opinions.

To the repost police, I'm sure there is a starwars thread that deals with this quite a while back.....Don't want to dig it up.
 
"Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
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Originally posted by: anxi80
"Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
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LOL....that's exactly what I was going to say. 😀
 
That's my favorite movie of the trilogy, Return of the Jedi was a letdown.
Loved Empire.


Oh, and I'd take Empire WAY before Attack of the Clones or Phantom Menace.
 
Originally posted by: Encryptic
"Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
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LOL....that's exactly what I was going to say. 😀
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😉
 
it was the bestest. I was shocked beyond belief when I learned as a little kid who Luke's father was. In my 3rd grade way I was like "WTF WTF WTF!!!!!11"
 
I liked Empire a lot, but would still rank it third. The Hoth battle though, is one of my favorite scenes of the whole series.

A New Hope was the best because it was the first and the most ground-breaking.
Jedi was great because it started with Luke being a real Jedi, instead of a dumb kid, and kicking some serious ass to save Han.
He was now finally ready to face Darth Vader.
Plus, it was the finale, so the ending was much more satisfying than Empire.
 
well, glad to know I am not crazy.

I loved Empire and thought Jedi was a letdown as well.

If I had to rank
it would be

Empire
A New Hope
Jedi
 
Definitely the best of the 3, in order of quality it was 2-1-3. One was excellent, two was an improvement on one due to it's darker side while 3 was a giant step backward. Wayyy too trite, happy and cutesy with the Ewoks. The 2 new ones are not even worth mentioning, they suck.
 
Agreed. 'A New Hope' was a complete movie. The characters were sublimely cardboard (a good thing in an action movie) and the plot and story ran perfectly together the entire time. Just enough was explained to make it all coherent, but enough was left unknown to make it seem truly epic.

Additionally, the force in these three movie, but especially in 'A New Hope' wasn't a genetic mutation, it was a kind of mixture of faith and confidence. Every kid left 'A New Hope' thinking if he just concentrated and believed hard enough he could do anything. THAT is one hell of a message...the metachlorines explanation is obscure and campy.

After the Hoth battle, 'Empire" is basically an hour of space travel and a lot of sitting around. Sure the story was passable for a sci-fi, but there was almost no plot and when you're talking about a space opera or a sci-fi, you really need both or else the story needs to be spectacular which 'Empire's most certainly was not.

I'm not an expert, but I almost minored in Film Studies...just needed two more classes.
 
It was my favorite of the orginal three. Then again, my opnion might not matter to you, since I like Metallica and the Boondock Saints.
 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Agreed. 'A New Hope' was a complete movie. The characters were sublimely cardboard (a good thing in an action movie) and the plot and story ran perfectly together the entire time. Just enough was explained to make it all coherent, but enough was left unknown to make it seem truly epic.

Additionally, the force in these three movie, but especially in 'A New Hope' wasn't a genetic mutation, it was a kind of mixture of faith and confidence. Every kid left 'A New Hope' thinking if he just concentrated and believed hard enough he could do anything. THAT is one hell of a message...the metachlorines explanation is obscure and campy.

After the Hoth battle, 'Empire" is basically an hour of space travel and a lot of sitting around. Sure the story was passable for a sci-fi, but there was almost no plot and when you're talking about a space opera or a sci-fi, you really need both or else the story needs to be spectacular which 'Empire's most certainly was not.

I'm not an expert, but I almost minored in Film Studies...just needed two more classes.
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whoa whoa, I'm no expert either. But empire certainly had more plot than Jedi. You had the coming of age/master and apprentice relationship (introduction of Yoda). You had the expansion on the Jedi philosophy. The "sins of the father revisted on the son" when vader was revealed to be luke's father.

By contrast, everything in Jedi was a big battle combined with some Ewoks. Jedi was so very unrealistic. Somehow, x-wing lasers can't penetrate imperial Walker armor, but Ewok treetrunks can.

Besides, being the middle film is a tough job. Its like the middle kid, nobody likes you. Thinking of every trilogy ever, this is the only one in which I like the second film best. Godfather2 is somewhat close but I still prefer first one.
 
Originally posted by: amoeba
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Agreed. 'A New Hope' was a complete movie. The characters were sublimely cardboard (a good thing in an action movie) and the plot and story ran perfectly together the entire time. Just enough was explained to make it all coherent, but enough was left unknown to make it seem truly epic.

Additionally, the force in these three movie, but especially in 'A New Hope' wasn't a genetic mutation, it was a kind of mixture of faith and confidence. Every kid left 'A New Hope' thinking if he just concentrated and believed hard enough he could do anything. THAT is one hell of a message...the metachlorines explanation is obscure and campy.

After the Hoth battle, 'Empire" is basically an hour of space travel and a lot of sitting around. Sure the story was passable for a sci-fi, but there was almost no plot and when you're talking about a space opera or a sci-fi, you really need both or else the story needs to be spectacular which 'Empire's most certainly was not.

I'm not an expert, but I almost minored in Film Studies...just needed two more classes.
Click to expand...


whoa whoa, I'm no expert either. But empire certainly had more plot than Jedi. You had the coming of age/master and apprentice relationship (introduction of Yoda). You had the expansion on the Jedi philosophy. The "sins of the father revisted on the son" when vader was revealed to be luke's father.

By contrast, everything in Jedi was a big battle combined with some Ewoks. Jedi was so very unrealistic. Somehow, x-wing lasers can't penetrate imperial Walker armor, but Ewok treetrunks can.

Besides, being the middle film is a tough job. Its like the middle kid, nobody likes you. Thinking of every trilogy ever, this is the only one in which I like the second film best. Godfather2 is somewhat close but I still prefer first one.
Click to expand...

I'd rank 'Jedi' just ahead of 'Empire' with 'Hope' way way WAY out in front. 'Empire' is a true snoozefest after the first 15 minutes. 'Jedi' is rediculous and campy, but it's also jam packed with plot and action. Don't get me wrong, 'Jedi' is not a very good movie, it's just that 'Empire' is worse. 'A New Hope' is an amazing movie.
 
eh...to each his own i guess. I pose a different question now

Am I the only person who liked The Two Towers more than Fellowship?
 
Originally posted by: amoeba
eh...to each his own i guess. I pose a different question now

Am I the only person who liked The Two Towers more than Fellowship?
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Probably. I didn't much care for either, but, of the two, I thought Fellowship was much better.
 
Originally posted by: amoeba
eh...to each his own i guess. I pose a different question now

Am I the only person who liked The Two Towers more than Fellowship?
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FOTR felt like I was seeing something magical for the first time - seeing the images in my head of the books coming to life. While I did enjoy TTT immensely, it didn't have that "shock and awe" feeling that I came away with after the first one. However, since I rank them as both 5 star movies (especially the extendo mixes) the point is really moot! 😀

For the longest time in my life I HATED Empire Strikes Back, just because I hated the Yoda subplot - but after the cheeseball new movies I have a newfound appreciation of the "original" Yoda and thus I can sit through his scenes again. Hoth Battle rules, but I also can't get enough of the space battle over Endor so I rank the two about even...with a New Hope leading the pack. By comparison, some of the scenes in Episode I make my original dislike of the Empire Yoda scenes seem tame. My favorite line of Episode I is "Yippppeeee!!!" Blechhh.

 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Agreed. 'A New Hope' was a complete movie. The characters were sublimely cardboard (a good thing in an action movie) and the plot and story ran perfectly together the entire time. Just enough was explained to make it all coherent, but enough was left unknown to make it seem truly epic.

Additionally, the force in these three movie, but especially in 'A New Hope' wasn't a genetic mutation, it was a kind of mixture of faith and confidence. Every kid left 'A New Hope' thinking if he just concentrated and believed hard enough he could do anything. THAT is one hell of a message...the metachlorines explanation is obscure and campy.

After the Hoth battle, 'Empire" is basically an hour of space travel and a lot of sitting around. Sure the story was passable for a sci-fi, but there was almost no plot and when you're talking about a space opera or a sci-fi, you really need both or else the story needs to be spectacular which 'Empire's most certainly was not.

I'm not an expert, but I almost minored in Film Studies...just needed two more classes.
Click to expand...

yeah but the film studies can hire all the film majors in the world but it's up to the public to decide if the simple plot will entertain them.
 
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