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why do people make a costly commitment regarding education?

Naer

Diamond Member
Time is precious and should be as close to zero cost as possible so that it hurts the least. Ephemerilization is the constant application of technology in which you have to have less and less of it to get more done. Computers do much more with less as you can see the size of the first computer. With online education, the cost usually comes down to an able computer or device and high speed internet and the cost of a brick and mortar school is the buildings, the administration, professors and staff, the educational materials, etc. With online education, not only am I not bound by rigid sources, I can enter learning mode at will usually anywhere I see fit, at anytime rather than have strict schedules or be tardy or be penalized in any way. Again an online learners are not bound by central places to learn but are decentralized and one might torrent a textbook that someone would traditionally buy. See a pattern? Cutting cost. Why cut cost you say? Generally no scarcity is more technically efficient than scarcity and monetary economics is all about the preservation of scarcity, so cutting cost in education and realize the constant application of the scientific method to solve problems and will bring abundance. A problem I see keeping us from reaching our goals to rid scarcity in the educational field is the social engineering that makes for the materialistic society that we live in. Constant engineered need for validation and comparison among our peers still lingers to this day. Hopefully this will change
 
Because living with other people learning the same material going to the same classes does wonders for motivation and outcomes in general. At least for me.
 
Because living with other people learning the same material going to the same classes does wonders for motivation and outcomes in general. At least for me.

I'm guessing that's social engineering made by the elites to further place the society in debt at the cost of public health to enrich the few
 
There are practical disciplines that are wholly inappropriate for online learning. Any kind of practical medicine is out of the question, and lack of human interaction ruins their ability to socialize as any doctor must do.

The social aspect of college cannot be underestimated. The vast majority of college graduates are preparing to enter a field where they will work with other people.

The other problem with online learning is the lack of integrity. It is just too easy to cheat the system, a person I know used to offer $1000 for a guaranteed C or better on any online course. He advertised this service in the school newspaper, and the school was so technologically out of the loop that they just didn't think it could happen. So he made a ton of money and those people got grades they never earned. This problem still exists today and there is always a way to circumvent some kind of security. Always.
 
Depending on what you are studying the current time requirements are wholly necessary. I spent 12 years in university to complete my studies and I was debating doing an additional two but my wife wanted to go back to university to get a further specialty in her field so I put that off. Many of the people I work with have spent similar time in school. I'm in medicine and work in a network of hospitals here in the city. I'd be hard pressed to tell you much of what I learned those first few years, but every year was essential in laying the foundation to move on and complete the next successfully.

There are many fields like this; that demand a threshold of time for all the necessary information to be absorbed and allow you to move deeper into your studies. Also, a lot is gained by the collaborative nature of being in the classroom and working together with other students. It prepares you for working with others when you get into your job and for a lot of fields close collaboration is essential to getting things done right and drawing on a pool of knowledge greater than just your own.

I think it's accurate that some programs can be pared down. I also think many specialty/grad degrees that require you to take an initial 2-3 years of related general studies could stand to do with less of those needed prerequisites if you're fresh out of high school and are going to waste that first year learning a lot of what you just finished doing.

Education financially should be looked at as an investment. Some invest wisely, others make foolish investments. For example: if you're going into university and have decided to do a degree in the history of english literature, you may as well just eat that money and shit it down the toilet. 😀
 
Probably depends on what you're learning. I found it useful to do group projects and things like that as people think and teach differently. You can learn from your schoolmates, and maybe help them learn as well. They may explain something differently than the professor which made it easier to understand. If you only have one way to learn (like online) and it doesn't click, then you're fucked.
 
i highly doubt i would be where i am right now had i not gone to college in person. i was one of those students where highschool was a breeze without having to do any work. my freshman year of college i tried to have the same mentality and as a result i earned 6 credits my second semester.

i nearly dropped out of school but i didn't. and thankfully i did not because without being pushed by teachers and peers to actually do a good job in school, and having a campus to live on with a lot of activities to do, i doubt i would have ever earned a degree in computer science.
 
i didn't go to college for social reasons, i went to learn about computer science

i think i could have done just as well online as in person. about 1/4 of my classes were distance learning anyway.
 
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Because living with other people learning the same material going to the same classes does wonders for motivation and outcomes in general. At least for me.

Exactly. I'd say because:

1. Being there in person creates pressure due to deadlines & not wanting to be embarrassed when the teacher calls on you.

2. Most knowledge is tribal knowledge. Good teachers know their stuff & can relay that you in person. Putting it out on paper can take a zillion pages & can miss the core concept, especially for stuff like music.

3. Networking is a big part of school. I got a really good job thanks to connections I made at school. Internships, jobs, and other resources are available through school relationships.

4. Social interaction is big, especially for projects where you need to bounce ideas off other people.

OP, look at it this way: the Internet has existed publicly for consumers since like 1999. There's an astounding amount of information available. So many colleges & other groups have put their information up & freely available - MIT OpenCourseware, for example. Big list of free online resources here:

http://imgur.com/gallery/VTuIPMt

So why are you not a master of cooking? Why are you not a networking expert? Why don't you understand math at a very high level? All of the information is there...for free...24/7...anything you want, anytime you want. There are no barriers to self-education these days...you can learn anything you want just by flipping on Youtube. Want to build a house? An arcade cabinet? A computer? Anything you want! Or ask yourself, why do you have 1,000+ posts on a forum where they don't even pay you to share your technical knowledge?

The problem boils down to motivation. Very few people are self-motivated to a high degree. The ones who are like that are generally already out making stuff happen in the world: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Donald Trump, Warren Buffett, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Henry Ford, the list goes on & on. The combination of high energy & clear focus - along with daily iterative progress - is what makes stuff like that happen. The world is your oyster if you're motivated enough, whether for good (Mother Teresa) or evil (Hitler).

But there's a lot that goes into motivation. You have to feel good enough to keep up that pace all the time, so you need to take care of your body by going to sleep early, eating healthy foods, exercising, and managing your stress levels. You have to have a clear focus to help you make specific progress & get you through the doldrums when you don't feel very excited about whatever you're working on, whether it's education or a job or a project. You basically have to narrow your focus & then be persistent. Arnold made history because he wanted to be basically the biggest guy ever. Kind of a simple meatheaded goal, but he became amazing because he kept himself motivated & made daily progress on what he wanted. So your point about freestyle learning is actually kind of a hidden barrier, despite sounding like great advertising:

With online education, not only am I not bound by rigid sources, I can enter learning mode at will usually anywhere I see fit, at anytime rather than have strict schedules or be tardy or be penalized in any way. Again an online learners are not bound by central places to learn but are decentralized and one might torrent a textbook that someone would traditionally buy.

Anything you want to learn is out there for free. Available right now. Learning anytime, anywhere doesn't actually work for people (for the majority of people, anyway) because the way we make progress is by being motivated to make progress, and then by being consistent at it. We're creatures of habits; being sporatic doesn't lead to habits & doesn't lead to consistent progress, which means you're not really moving along your educational path unless you set some specific times, dates, and a material path to follow.

It's interesting how the compounding interest adds up too. As of today, I have 31,833 posts here on AT, which is a decently large number (and makes me think I should be doing something else with my time LOL). But - my average daily post count is only 7.8. Hop on at lunch, make a few posts, adds up over time. Same thing happens with anything - learning the guitar, studying computer science, practicing cooking, doing pushups. Over time your knowledge increases & your results increase because you're making steady, consistent progress through habits.

Basically learning in class, in person, works best for most people because most of us are not very self-motivated. We work best around & with other people. If you were highly self-motivated, you would already be out doing stuff & blazing a trail in the world rather than posting on a forum all day long. Based on my postcount, I apparently have very low self-motivation 😀

Anyway, people make a costly investment into a college education because you need to earn an income for the rest of your life to support yourself & your family, and going to college to get trained for a job that is needed & pays well is a pretty safe bet for most people, especially for the bulk of us who are not self-motivated entrepreneurs & want to go set the world on fire with our talents. And the best way to achieve that college degree is to do it in person, because (1) we're strongly socially motivated (deadlines, peer pressure, working in groups, being around other people, tribal knowledge, etc.), and (2) we're creates of habit (having classes on the same days at the same times creates a routine based on schedule, which helps us make consistent progress).

There's not really any magic to it. Online stuff simply doesn't work for most people because most people are not very motivated by themselves. Some of us are, and some of us do well with that. Some of us do VERY well with it & become the Doogie Howsers of the world. The rest of us have to deal with our innate limitations, which is why online schools haven't taken over brick & mortar schools yet - it all boils down to human nature.
 
By cut cost I mean do more with less. Perhaps I used the wrong words

I think what you are arguing for is that decisions re: education should be based on what option provides the biggest bang for the buck. Economists would call that determining which option is a "value added proposition."

If that is what you are arguing, I am all for it. The days where college was a must go regardless of the cost are long gone.
 
Kaido has it right. But I'd like to add to his post.

1) Social interaction is ~80% of college. You will never have a better chance to network with young, excited, intelligent, motivated people. College is the best of the best crammed into one small location.

For example, you could get an MBA anywhere for a few thousand dollars (or free online). But people pay $60,000+ to go to Stanford, Harvard, Unversity of Chicago or one of the other top schools. Why? Networking. Get an MBA from an unknown school and you'll basically be wasting your time and money working as a manager for a local retail store at $40k a year if you are lucky. Get an MBA from a top school and the network will very likely put you in a job earning $180k+ a year ($180k was the median Stanford MBA first year salary + bonus last year).

For example, where else will you find thouands of eligible mates all in one location and almost all worthy of marrying? It is extremely easy to get a date in college, not so much once you are out of college. In college, just about everyone you meet has great potential. Not so much on online dating websites.

2) Online classes are there, and have been for years, but they so far have been dismal failures. Only a tiny fraction of people actually graduate. And as posted above, many of those people that graduated actually just paid others to take the online courses for them. College isn't about the degree. College is about getting you to class, interacting with professors, experiencing the material in labs, collaborating with others, etc. Online courses have very little of that. Sure you may interact with a professor (maybe), but s/he may have 10,000 other students that semester and won't have time to give any quality interaction back to you.

3) Without colleges, you won't have new relevant textbooks to torrent. You won't have professors to handle the online courses, etc. Online classes are just leaches at the moment. If the parasite kills the host, the parasite often dies too.
 
College presents a barrier to entry, and even though its not the meritocracy one would hope for, it does prepare you for the real world.

The real world and most jobs aren't completely what you know. A lot of jobs are about your tolerance of bullshit and how you interact with other people. An online class that is as frictionless as an Amazon purchase doesn't prepare you for that. Actually have to go to class and deal with the traffic, the parking, the campus cops, the know it all in class, and the boring lectures (which in the business world we call meetings) does prepare you for this bullshit.
 
College presents a barrier to entry, and even though its not the meritocracy one would hope for, it does prepare you for the real world.

The real world and most jobs aren't completely what you know. A lot of jobs are about your tolerance of bs and how you interact with other people. An online class that is as frictionless as an Amazon purchase doesn't prepare you for that. Actually have to go to class and deal with the traffic, the parking, the campus cops, the know it all in class, and the boring lectures (which in the business world we call meetings) does prepare you for this bs.

Yeah, you nailed it. On the flip side of college being expensive, it IS available for those who are willing to pay the price - not just the money, but the time investment & learning how to deal with the waste of time that you mentioned. Dealing with bureaucracy is a big part of most jobs, plus there's just a lot of inefficiency in any job. I read something that on average, something like only 10% of the day is actually productive time for most people, so mastering the art of looking busy when the boss comes by is a valid part of education as well. Unless you work on a factory line or something where your time is managed for you, there's just a lot of downtime in most jobs.
 
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