Why do people get insurance for ANYTHING?

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975


I never said I was invincible. I am saying that insurance for most is a waste. And billion dollar profits from insruance compaines prove that.

Where are these billion dollar profits?
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701221/000095015907000609/cigna10q.htm
I see them with retained earnings of $6.375 Million. For the quarter they had a positive net income of $289,000. That's 289 THOUSAND dollars. Not million. Not billion.

It really isn't the moneymaker you think it is. I underwrote health insurance (life, medical, dental, vision) for 3 years. I've been underwriting various lines of insurance for 10 years now. Some lines make more money than others. Health is one of the least profitable lines of insurance.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
That and I never said I would not get insurance. I am just pointing out so many here hate those damm "liberals" yet you are so happy to pile your money down on the most liberal and socialist program out there and defend your decision tooth and nail. Just that for MOST it is not good. Now when I am 50+ then yea the chance of cancer or other ailment raises and you get your moneys worth maybe. But for right now the risk level with cost is not worth it.

You're missing one very important piece when you call insurance a "socialist" program. Everybody pays for their insurance and is covered according to what they pay. If insurance were "socialist", everyone would be covered, only the wealthy would pay premiums, and payout would be based on need instead of on a person's coverage levels. Excellent strawman argument however.

Shh.. don't spoil his fun. He feels like a big-boy now that he thinks he has come up with irrefutable proof that all small-government advocates are flaming hypocrites. Don't let his lack of logic and critical thinking spoil his fun!

 

[waggy]

i for one am happy with my insurance. it has saved me well over 100kl in the last 5 years.

we also get vision and dental. those are more of a break even type. we pay $3 a week for each. we priced it out and its a wash. we could drop it an dwouldnt matter.

car/house insurance is a must. besides we have to have car insurance if something happens to either the car or house i can't afford to replace it. car insurance is $40 for (full covarage) and my wife has just libality (97 escort) and pays $30 (was less but she got in a wreck heh)

for the house we pay $650 a year. if something happens to the house we have $225 (think it went up to $250-275 not sure on t hat) to re-build and a way to low amount on personal property of $50k think we should increase it. but if something happens now i have a loan on a house that is burned down and noplace to live. yeah good idea.

 

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
That and I never said I would not get insurance. I am just pointing out so many here hate those damm "liberals" yet you are so happy to pile your money down on the most liberal and socialist program out there and defend your decision tooth and nail. Just that for MOST it is not good. Now when I am 50+ then yea the chance of cancer or other ailment raises and you get your moneys worth maybe. But for right now the risk level with cost is not worth it.

You're missing one very important piece when you call insurance a "socialist" program. Everybody pays for their insurance and is covered according to what they pay. If insurance were "socialist", everyone would be covered, only the wealthy would pay premiums, and payout would be based on need instead of on a person's coverage levels. Excellent strawman argument however.

Shh.. don't spoil his fun. He feels like a big-boy now that he thinks he has come up with irrefutable proof that all small-government advocates are flaming hypocrites. Don't let his lack of logic and critical thinking spoil his fun!

Zenmervolt - Your statement about what is covered in relation to what is paid is false. That only applies to certain self-insured or stop-gap plans. Some companies find it to be more cost effective to have a self-insured plan (usually 500+ employee companies with a younger work force). Basically they use the health insurance company has a third party administrator while reaping the insurance companies negotiated lower rates with doctors and hospitals (the PPO, POS, HMO, etc plans).
Under 50 employee plans for example are on a pooled basis. All the premiums going into a common pool for example and then claims are paid from there. Some companies have minimal claims while others have numerous/expensive ones. The rates per company are on an individual company basis however.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
Zenmervolt - Your statement about what is covered in relation to what is paid is false. That only applies to certain self-insured or stop-gap plans. Some companies find it to be more cost effective to have a self-insured plan (usually 500+ employee companies with a younger work force). Basically they use the health insurance company has a third party administrator while reaping the insurance companies negotiated lower rates with doctors and hospitals (the PPO, POS, HMO, etc plans).
Under 50 employee plans for example are on a pooled basis. All the premiums going into a common pool for example and then claims are paid from there. Some companies have minimal claims while others have numerous/expensive ones. The rates per company are on an individual company basis however.

We do self insurance here, we are a fortune 300 company with about 6-8000 associaties.

I don't know how ZV can get all that for $10/mth, I am not saying it's impossible...but it would be very very rare.

We are pretty well subsidized and I pay $65/month for health (company gives me the $2k for my deductable as a health fund each year that can roll over). $16 for dental and $3 or so for vision. I automatically get life at 1.5x my salary and disability up to 3 months full pay and another 3 at 80% (this is based on time of service, I am at 3 years now).

 

[nweaver]

Just as a quick example...

my niece was born with major lung problems, and was rushed to another hospital and was in intensive care for several months, and on an oxygen tube till she was 8 months. All said and done, my brother got a final bill for something like 280K from that second hospital.

Of course, as an active duty army officer, it was marked paid in full.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I love threads like this as it brings out the hypocrites. Everybody hates all the free loaders that take more from the government or ?program? then they pay but they have no problem paying others bills in health care just so they can say ?just in case?? insert something that happens rarely and usually to people that bring it onto themselves.

Insurance is probable the most liberal socialist thing out there. Yet here are so many posters that are ?conservative? saying you need this very liberal/socialist program or you will die. Of course I guess the insurance companies are doing a good job filling people?s heads with YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT!!! And they don?t mind taking your money and then denying claims and roiling in the billions of dollars of profits every year. There?s a reason why Warren Buffet got into insurance at an early start of his career. He knows how much money is made off of it, and so easily.

I don?t have dental or vision. It is actually cheaper to pay the cash price to have my teeth cleaned then pay for dental insurance. Same thing with vision and my wife wears glasses and contacts. Only reason I got health insurance the last year was it was cheaper to have insurance on me and my wife then to just cover her alone.

Now if you are fat, have genetic issues, overweight, drinks, smoke, don?t exercise, etc? then yea insurance is a great thing for you. But for the rest it will be a money pit. There?s a reason why so many companies are now charging more for those that smoke or just firing them. I would not look down on insurance as much if it was fairer. Charge more to those that put themselves at higher risk and give discounts to people like myself that don?t drink, smoke, workout, etc? Heck IBM gave I think $500 a year to those that work out a certain amount. It?s a start but they need to go deeper IMO.

Is this a troll? Insurance (in ideal theory, not always in practice) is pure liberal capitalism, not even remotely socialist. You get a choice. That's the difference. Socialism is when government controls it and forces you to have it at gunpoint. Insurance provides competition and choice. And if not getting is a bad idea, that's not force, you are still allowed the right to make a bad decision.


People buy insurance because it's a good investment (of a kind known as hedging). Insurance reduces and helps control risk.
Consider car insurance. Most people pay about $100 per month or so (this may vary due to your age, car, record, etc). One good sized accident could easily hit $100k in payouts. That's 83 years of premiums. How is that not a good deal?
Homeowners insurance runs me about $600/year. If my house burns down, it's like 600 years of premiums to rebuild it. Best deal ever IMO.
Healthcare from my employer costs me about $100 per month tax-free. What's a heart attack cost? How much is cancer? Hell, how much is a single trip to the emergency room?

Warren got into insurance because he understands finance. In order to actually make money while paying out all those claims that typically come out to more than the premiums, insurance companies have to take their pools of capital and invest them in some fashion that guarantees sufficient return (much like what a bank has to do in order to make money, but banks make loans). Warren is a master guru of investment, therefore controlling insurance pools was right up his alley.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: mugs
Marlin1975, most of us don't believe we are invincible, and we are not willing to be a leech in the event that there is a catastrophic event that results in high medical bills. The risk may be low, but the consequences are life-altering in a terrible way.

I never said I was invincible. I am saying that insurance for most is a waste. And billion dollar profits from insruance compaines prove that.

I look at the risk level for my lifestyle and see that insurance is not helping me right now. Of course when I am 50+ then yea I will probable change my mind.

And if you look at most insurance it has caps now. In fact people with insruance still have to sell everythingt they own to just pay the bills once the insurance company runs or changes tune and says " well thats not covered for..." insert lame and usually false reason.

Sounds like you're watching movies on the Lifetime network again. That doesn't happen very often (and when it does, it becomes some media event).

 

[Uppsala9496]

Marlin, you said "And if you look at most insurance it has caps now."

Health insurance has always had a cap. It is usually $1 million. Some are higher. I have NEVER seen it lower than $1M though.

The lines I underwrite vary from $1M to $10M. The most common is $2M.
Funny, but for a company with clean financial statements and no past issues I might charge something like $3,000 for $1,000,000 in coverage. Big money maker there for me....

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I don't know how ZV can get all that for $10/mth, I am not saying it's impossible...but it would be very very rare.

Sounds like his company subsidizes an unusually large percentage of his insurance.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I don't know how ZV can get all that for $10/mth, I am not saying it's impossible...but it would be very very rare.

Sounds like his company subsidizes an unusually large percentage of his insurance.

my father-in-law has great insurance. he pays like $20 a month for a family. his copay is ZERO for emergancy and doctor visits. priscriptions are 2-4-6

he works for some chemical plant in iowa. heh wish my insurance was that cheap.

 

[CorCentral]

Here in TN, it's not illegal to drive without insurance, but if you get caught on the other hand......... you guessed it, you get ticketed **LOL**

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: CorCentral
Here in TN, it's not illegal to drive without insurance, but if you get caught on the other hand......... you guessed it, you get ticketed **LOL**

how can you get a ticket if it is not against the law?

 

[Uppsala9496]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I don't know how ZV can get all that for $10/mth, I am not saying it's impossible...but it would be very very rare.

Sounds like his company subsidizes an unusually large percentage of his insurance.

my father-in-law has great insurance. he pays like $20 a month for a family. his copay is ZERO for emergancy and doctor visits. priscriptions are 2-4-6

he works for some chemical plant in iowa. heh wish my insurance was that cheap.

A lot of insurance companies are pushing the $50 or $75 ER access fee because people have the tendency to go to the ER for routine things (a cold, etc.) that should be handled at a doctor's office. To have a zero dollar ER access fee is rare. I'm envious. My last ER visit was about 4 years ago when I ripped out my cornea while taking out my contact lens. $50 to walk in the door and $15 for my co-pay. Sure beat the $1,200+ that was on my EOB. $0 would have been pretty slick.

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: K1052
Yet another 20something that thinks they are indestructible and that they are smarter than everyone else.:roll:

Life will sooner or later bitchslap some reality into you.

Exactly. I used to think ah nothing will happen to me, and then I got diagnosed with a disease that costs my health insurance 30-80K a year depending on how that year went. Maybe I should have just taken a loan out for more then I make in a year... every year. LOL That is the..... forget it I have no words for how stupid that statement is.

I have great insurance, just a set copay for normal visits and no lifetime max. Once im in the office or hospital everything is 100% covered. It is $15 for doctors office, $25 for specialist, $250 for ER visit. I like the ER thing, it stops people from going to the ER for nothing.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
The lines I underwrite....Big money maker there for me.

And the truth comes out as to why you attacked me for saying to get insurance, but not to over-insure. You profit from it.

 

[CorCentral]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: CorCentral
Here in TN, it's not illegal to drive without insurance, but if you get caught on the other hand......... you guessed it, you get ticketed **LOL**

how can you get a ticket if it is not against the law?

I've not a clue. But it's true is all I know.
When I lived in FL, you had better have insurance. It's one of the more tougher states on this.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
The lines I underwrite....Big money maker there for me.

And the truth comes out as to why you attacked me for saying to get insurance, but not to over-insure. You profit from it.

heh you underlined "underwrite"
clever

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: K1052
Yet another 20something that thinks they are indestructible and that they are smarter than everyone else.:roll:

Life will sooner or later bitchslap some reality into you.

If life "bitchslapped" some reality into everyone with insurance, they wouldnt make money from it, so he has a point

The question is - are you willing to take the risk? Some are, some arent

/thread

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
The lines I underwrite....Big money maker there for me.

And the truth comes out as to why you attacked me for saying to get insurance, but not to over-insure. You profit from it.

Actually, I don't think he objected to your point about over-insuring.

 

[Svnla]

I don't see how anyone <except the filty riches> can get a few hundred thousands dollars to cover major medical surgeries or replace the house and its contents.

You can't insure everything...that's why you ONLY insure the big stuffs...the ones you can't afford to replace/fix on your own <house, health, new car>.

Take out a loan or two to cover the differences? Give me the name of any banks will do that. Where are you collateral when you are sick and can't work?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Originally posted by: K1052
Yet another 20something that thinks they are indestructible and that they are smarter than everyone else.:roll:

Life will sooner or later bitchslap some reality into you.

If life "bitchslapped" some reality into everyone with insurance, they wouldnt make money from it, so he has a point

The question is - are you willing to take the risk? Some are, some arent

/thread

It is true that some people do get through life without much in the way of issues, these people are in the minority.

The odds of being paid out are a LOT better than not. The question is do you want to risk your health and financial stability, and assets chasing poor odds in the hope to save a few bucks?

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: dullard
The key is to insure against things that you CANNOT overcome. Can you pay for a $1,000,000 heart transplant by saving $100/month? No. Can you get a loan for that? No. Instead, you just die. That is why you need catastrophic insurance to cover that possibility. Do you need low deductables or copays with expensive monthly fees in case you sprain your ankle? No, that is just a massive waste of your own money. Get the highest deductable you possibly can and insure against those major cases that you can't afford to not have coverage for. Then put the monthly premium savings into an interest earning account and you'll be able to cover those high deductables PLUS have a lot left over.

The above is what I was going to post. You need insurance to cover what you CAN'T handle on your own, but it's unwise to pay for more insurance than you need. The strategy dullard outlined is the smart way to go.

My neighbor was shocked to learn that our homeowners insurance was $350 a year while his is $800. I explained that we have a $2000 deductible to keep our premiums down. Turns out he has a $250 deductible. His response? "What's the point of having insurance if a claim is going to cost me $2000?"

My response: What's the point of paying $450 a year more than you have to? You've lived here 13 years and never had a claim. If you had raised your deductible and saved the difference, you'd have a lot more than $2000 available to pay any claim you might have someday. And even if you didn't have anything saved, $2000 isn't going to break you. You are paying for more insurance than you really need.

$800/year. What a crybaby. Mine is $2500/year.

 

[compuwiz1]

Are you independently and vastly wealthy, or just a moron?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I don't know how ZV can get all that for $10/mth, I am not saying it's impossible...but it would be very very rare.

Sounds like his company subsidizes an unusually large percentage of his insurance.

The company I work for used to pay for the employee's coverage entirely, and then the employee had to pay for his spouse/dependents coverage. Such a situation is not that rare. But it favors single people, so those employees who are not single or who have children complained, so they changed it so that they pay for half of everyone's coverage (up to a certain number of dependents IIRC).
I know of a mid-sized company in Lake Oswego that pays 100% of the health coverage for all their employees, spouses, partners (even gay/lesbian), and dependents.