Why do people cheat?

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

But you see, he is standing up for his principles. He believes those extra classes are a waste of time. As far as protesting it with the Dean and whatnot, I don?t know how far he took it. But during my college "career," I would protest monthly about these extra stupid classes. I'd go to the student congress meetings. They really don't care as long as they get paid. I myself never cheated in these courses but they were not beneficial at all to me.

he's not standing up for his principles if no one in the administration knew about his silent protest. a protest of cheating.

and yes, that is an assumption. i am assuming he never told his professors he was cheating in their classes.

And, I did talk to the teachers as well as administration. You have the option to test out of certain classes, most gen ed classes being the case.
Wanna know the funny part? NO ONE could test out of the Algebra class. Not 1 of the 60+ students. This is Algebra 1 people, not anything advanced. Tell me 60+ college students, and not one can do it, is an Algebra 1 test?
Wanna know why no one could? Because, it wasnt Algebra! Yes, you have the option of trying to test out. No, the test you take is NOT material covered in the course. Its magnitudes harder. Why? If you dont take the test, the college lost approx 1500 bucks off you.
It came down to money. I *had* to take the class otherwise the college lost money. Hmmm. Ok, force me to take it. Fine. I'll take the path of least resistance, since I know the material in the class, but not the material on the test to be exempt from the class, I'll go ahead and "cheat".
Oh, and the funny thing? Even the Algrebra teacher admitted the test out test wasnt truly a fair test in regards to the material to be covered in his class. We had horrid administration, but good teachers.

There is a national standardized exam for getting college credit called the CLEP test. it is administered at all college test centers. Are the exams harder than the classes they allow you to CLEP out of, OF COURSE. What would be the point of making the exam easier than the class. 🙁. I took a History Class exam my freshman year in college. I failed by 1 miserable point, but guess what, did i cheat to get thru the class?? hmmm, surprisingly i knew enough to not HAVE to cheat to get thru the class. Which is kind of the point, IF you didn't need to be in the class, why did you need to cheat to get thru it?? AND if you think knowledge of algebra is NOT necessary than you are lacking in wisdom and education. I use my algebra everyday and I'm glad i understood it the first time thru.

Anyway, bottom line your still rationalizing. You cheated. You are a cheat and no better than a liar. You have no credibility with me.

jeez with that kind of rational thinking, i pity your children. Because you know they'll cheat one way or another in their lifetime. Sadly, everyone does it in one way or another
Is that what you'll tell your kids?

EDIT: and maybe the administration for these universities will take a step back and wonder why so many students cheat. Granted, most cheat because they're idiots. But there are those that feel like those classes are a waste of time and they are right. WTF is art appreciation going to do for me in my life? Absolutely nothing, especially since the teacher mostly showed movies and slept during the class (which is what most of the students were doing too)

there is a fine balance between teachers and parents explaining their actions to their children/students and the children / students just accepting what is being taught them w/o understanding. EVERY class can be a waste of time. just because a teacher is bad at teaching that particular class does not make it a waste of time. Latin used to be required in order to graduate certain schools. It is no longer required, is that a good thing?? mb mb not. Foreign languages are required, There is absolutely NO question that many english speaking americans could benefit from learning a foreign language. I remember taking Art appreciation and Music appreciation classes, I enjoyed them and felt i benefited from them BUT even if i didn't, i really did, any time you get exposure to culture, it does help.

as to my kids, yes, i expect honesty from them at all times. I set high standards for them. They will do what is necessary to get by in their lives i'm sure as we all do. we may compromise, BUT we should never hold compromise as the standard by which we live. We should hold to principle.

You think it is soo good to teach kids, oh everyone screws up so it's ok to live ur life as a screw up?? guess what, the level of expectations parents have for their kids is part of the determining factor as to the level of their achievements.

I feel sorry for your kids / or kids to be if you think that setting COMPROMISE as the standard to live by is the best way to prepare them.

Don?t know what world you live in but

Anyway, bottom line your still rationalizing. You cheated. You are a cheat and no better than a liar. You have no credibility with me.

does not sound very compromising. Bottom line, the issue isn't about bad teachers and it never was. It's about classes that are useless for a major. Again, Art appreciation did absolutely nothing for me except bore me for 3 hours a week and waste hundreds of dollars on. That's time I could have spent on a class related to programming or even learning more about my major. Why should the bridge designer care about European economics of the 17th century? I'd much rather have him concentrate on building the best bridge possible

because, there are reasons why LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES were developed and a MORE ROUNDED bachelors Degree program developed. Truth be known, you don't go to college to become specialists in your major, that is just a starting point. it is just to provide you with basics. if you want to master that subject you go on and get your Graduate degrees, otherwise you get a job in the field and you learn what you REALLY need to know there. The purpose of college isn't necessarily to teach you all the things your going to learn on the job, guess what that's impossible, although internships etc help. the purpose of college is to help you become a more rounded person.

Oh btw, I never said i'd be compromising. I said i'd feel sorry for kids whose parents taught them that COMPROMISE, Compromise of believes and Ideals, WAS THE IDEAL. I think we should hold ourselves up to higher standards then that which is attained or even that which can be attained, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CALLED IDEALS.

 

[Pepsei]

Maybe you don't see it, but for SOME people, they felt like they have fun when they beat other people even when using cheats.

I'm just talking about games. The point to games is to have fun...

 

[Spamela]

i think hyper-competitive environments "force" some people to cheat to survive,
whether it's a company screwing over workers/customers to stay in business or
a student cheating on tests.

there's a big emphasis on winning & being a winner in our society,
not "winning with honor."

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Pepsei
Maybe you don't see it, but for SOME people, they felt like they have fun when they beat other people even when using cheats.

I'm just talking about games. The point to games is to have fun...

yes, and i'm not making as big a deal about what a person does in games, BUT it is indicative of how they will deal with people in real life.

I knew a guy who's ego was based on ONE thing, that he got his Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do, even tho he hadn't completed all the requirements but because he KNEW somebody. For him, HE was a better person because he knew someone important enough to get him his black belt EVEN THO HE DIDN'T DESERVE IT or had EARNED IT.

Seriously, how sad is that??

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Spamela
i think hyper-competitive environments "force" some people to cheat to survive,
whether it's a company screwing over workers/customers to stay in business or
a student cheating on tests.

there's a big emphasis on winning & being a winner in our society,
not "winning with honor."

and i hope to raise my kids to become people who feel that there is no such thing as winning w/o honor.

is that wrong??

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

But you see, he is standing up for his principles. He believes those extra classes are a waste of time. As far as protesting it with the Dean and whatnot, I don?t know how far he took it. But during my college "career," I would protest monthly about these extra stupid classes. I'd go to the student congress meetings. They really don't care as long as they get paid. I myself never cheated in these courses but they were not beneficial at all to me.

he's not standing up for his principles if no one in the administration knew about his silent protest. a protest of cheating.

and yes, that is an assumption. i am assuming he never told his professors he was cheating in their classes.

And, I did talk to the teachers as well as administration. You have the option to test out of certain classes, most gen ed classes being the case.
Wanna know the funny part? NO ONE could test out of the Algebra class. Not 1 of the 60+ students. This is Algebra 1 people, not anything advanced. Tell me 60+ college students, and not one can do it, is an Algebra 1 test?
Wanna know why no one could? Because, it wasnt Algebra! Yes, you have the option of trying to test out. No, the test you take is NOT material covered in the course. Its magnitudes harder. Why? If you dont take the test, the college lost approx 1500 bucks off you.
It came down to money. I *had* to take the class otherwise the college lost money. Hmmm. Ok, force me to take it. Fine. I'll take the path of least resistance, since I know the material in the class, but not the material on the test to be exempt from the class, I'll go ahead and "cheat".
Oh, and the funny thing? Even the Algrebra teacher admitted the test out test wasnt truly a fair test in regards to the material to be covered in his class. We had horrid administration, but good teachers.

There is a national standardized exam for getting college credit called the CLEP test. it is administered at all college test centers. Are the exams harder than the classes they allow you to CLEP out of, OF COURSE. What would be the point of making the exam easier than the class. 🙁. I took a History Class exam my freshman year in college. I failed by 1 miserable point, but guess what, did i cheat to get thru the class?? hmmm, surprisingly i knew enough to not HAVE to cheat to get thru the class. Which is kind of the point, IF you didn't need to be in the class, why did you need to cheat to get thru it?? AND if you think knowledge of algebra is NOT necessary than you are lacking in wisdom and education. I use my algebra everyday and I'm glad i understood it the first time thru.

Anyway, bottom line your still rationalizing. You cheated. You are a cheat and no better than a liar. You have no credibility with me.

jeez with that kind of rational thinking, i pity your children. Because you know they'll cheat one way or another in their lifetime. Sadly, everyone does it in one way or another
Is that what you'll tell your kids?

EDIT: and maybe the administration for these universities will take a step back and wonder why so many students cheat. Granted, most cheat because they're idiots. But there are those that feel like those classes are a waste of time and they are right. WTF is art appreciation going to do for me in my life? Absolutely nothing, especially since the teacher mostly showed movies and slept during the class (which is what most of the students were doing too)

there is a fine balance between teachers and parents explaining their actions to their children/students and the children / students just accepting what is being taught them w/o understanding. EVERY class can be a waste of time. just because a teacher is bad at teaching that particular class does not make it a waste of time. Latin used to be required in order to graduate certain schools. It is no longer required, is that a good thing?? mb mb not. Foreign languages are required, There is absolutely NO question that many english speaking americans could benefit from learning a foreign language. I remember taking Art appreciation and Music appreciation classes, I enjoyed them and felt i benefited from them BUT even if i didn't, i really did, any time you get exposure to culture, it does help.

as to my kids, yes, i expect honesty from them at all times. I set high standards for them. They will do what is necessary to get by in their lives i'm sure as we all do. we may compromise, BUT we should never hold compromise as the standard by which we live. We should hold to principle.

You think it is soo good to teach kids, oh everyone screws up so it's ok to live ur life as a screw up?? guess what, the level of expectations parents have for their kids is part of the determining factor as to the level of their achievements.

I feel sorry for your kids / or kids to be if you think that setting COMPROMISE as the standard to live by is the best way to prepare them.

Don?t know what world you live in but

Anyway, bottom line your still rationalizing. You cheated. You are a cheat and no better than a liar. You have no credibility with me.

does not sound very compromising. Bottom line, the issue isn't about bad teachers and it never was. It's about classes that are useless for a major. Again, Art appreciation did absolutely nothing for me except bore me for 3 hours a week and waste hundreds of dollars on. That's time I could have spent on a class related to programming or even learning more about my major. Why should the bridge designer care about European economics of the 17th century? I'd much rather have him concentrate on building the best bridge possible

because, there are reasons why LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES were developed and a MORE ROUNDED bachelors Degree program developed. Truth be known, you don't go to college to become specialists in your major, that is just a starting point. it is just to provide you with basics. if you want to master that subject you go on and get your Graduate degrees, otherwise you get a job in the field and you learn what you REALLY need to know there. The purpose of college isn't necessarily to teach you all the things your going to learn on the job, guess what that's impossible, although internships etc help. the purpose of college is to help you become a more rounded person.

Oh btw, I never said i'd be compromising. I said i'd feel sorry for kids whose parents taught them that COMPROMISE, Compromise of believes and Ideals, WAS THE IDEAL. I think we should hold ourselves up to higher standards then that which is attained or even that which can be attained, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CALLED IDEALS.

True but in our society, getting a degree from a tech school isn't as good as a regular university. In fact, it can actually hurt your chances at a job. I know this for a fact because I've seen it in action. True you won't learn everything about your job in college but again, I'd much rather have my bridge designer concentrate on math and CE courses than useless courses. And you didn't answer me about why a bridge designer (CE) would care about European economics of the 17th century.
I do agree with you on parents should hold their kids to a high standard.

 

[LeeTJ]

True but in our society, getting a degree from a tech school isn't as good as a regular university. In fact, it can actually hurt your chances at a job. I know this for a fact because I've seen it in action. True you won't learn everything about your job in college but again, I'd much rather have my bridge designer concentrate on math and CE courses than useless courses. And you didn't answer me about why a bridge designer (CE) would care about European economics of the 17th century.
I do agree with you on parents should hold their kids to a high standard.

2 levels

1. So one should cheat at everything one feels doesn't apply to him?? (first of all, are his feelings accurate? 2nd, where is he going to draw the line?)
Ends do not justify the means.

2. A person that has a well rounded education, including things such as European economics of the 17th century. it's very important to know where you came from.

 

[Moonbeam]

Like I said, people cheat because they have no center of self love upon which only a moral center can be founded. The intention of a liberal education, one grounded in philosophy and psychology, are the kinds of tools our society has to try and pass on some of the ideas that form that foundation. Naturally they aren't very welcome to those who have alerady crystalized as cheaters and frauds. It shows them a mirror in which their ugliness is revealed. But it's only the ugliness of appearance because we can't help what we have been. It couldn't be otherwise. But nobody will ever have self-respect who cheats, and no cheater can ever be denied it who sincerely changes. It's just the way it is. We have choice only in the now.

 

[Geekbabe]

I wasn't cheating! I was just enjoying a bit of camping🙂

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I wasn't cheating! I was just enjoying a bit of camping🙂

now THAT kind of cheating i can condone. 🙂

unless it's my wife cheating with someone else. 🙁

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I wasn't cheating! I was just enjoying a bit of camping🙂

now THAT kind of cheating i can condone. 🙂

unless it's my wife cheating with someone else. 🙁

lol,hey,I was just pitching my tent near the respawn area,wasn't my fault they all just fell on my RL🙂

 

[dighn]

i cheat in games sometimes (online). no it's not because i suck and need cheats to kill, i'm a very good player but i find cheating very amusing b/c you can do things you could not without cheats and i love causing confusion and chaos in a game.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

True but in our society, getting a degree from a tech school isn't as good as a regular university. In fact, it can actually hurt your chances at a job. I know this for a fact because I've seen it in action. True you won't learn everything about your job in college but again, I'd much rather have my bridge designer concentrate on math and CE courses than useless courses. And you didn't answer me about why a bridge designer (CE) would care about European economics of the 17th century.
I do agree with you on parents should hold their kids to a high standard.

2 levels

1. So one should cheat at everything one feels doesn't apply to him?? (first of all, are his feelings accurate? 2nd, where is he going to draw the line?)
Ends do not justify the means.

2. A person that has a well rounded education, including things such as European economics of the 17th century. it's very important to know where you came from.

1) this discussion thread we have going between us has to do with the university system, not everything.
2) true but irrelevant in the person's life especially because 99.9% of the time, he will forget it. If he has an interest in the subject, then by all means, take the class. But forcing it on the students is stupid

 

[jbahseng]

"It's not a lie if you believe it"

George Costanza

 

[Dufman]

i didnt cheat the system. i worked it

 

[Mill]

Ok this is turning into an everybody does it so it must be ok thread. I don't give a flying flippity fizzzzuck if everyone does it. I am asking why they do it and how they can live with themselves.

 

[yowolabi]

Why do they do it? So they can win. We grow up seeing that the only thing that matters is the end result. Even if we're taught otherwise by parents, this whole "honesty is it's own reward" isn't evidenced in the outside material world that we all worship so much. If you drive a mercedes, know one cares how you got it. Graduated Magna Cum Laude, no one questions if you cheated. Get a good rank in a game, people ask you how you got so good. The first time someone cheats as a child and gets rewarded for doing something good that they didn't earn, that whole karma thing gets devalued.

The truth is that cheaters are rewarded by society, unless you are one of the small percentage of people that is actually caught in the act. We all know someone in college who had a great gpa and cheated whenever they thought they could get away with it. They did much better than the person at the same level who didn't consider that possibility. Some of the biggest cheaters rose to head some of the biggest companies in the USA. They didn't just start to cheat when they got there. They did this all along and prospered because of it.

That being said, the reason that these people can live with it is because they have bought into the theory that "you are what you pretend to be". They don't have a personal moral compass, or they have one of those convenient ones that changes so that "goodness" is whatever direction they're currently pointed in. They may call themselves religous, but they don't truly believe in bad karma or hell, actually they may, but they don't truly believe that they can go to hell or have done anything deserving of bad karma. When they assess their lives, they truly do not see how their actions negatively impacted other people or the world.

How do they live? Generally very well. It's the rest of us that have to think about and worry about the consequences of our actions.

 

[Moonbeam]

I told you why, but you can't believe it. We don't want the pain. You have to pay for truth with your life, er at least your false ego, the one who pretends he's OK. You have to die to be reborn, they say. This is why. A cheat has to rationalize, repeat, has to. Nobody willingly admitts to how they really feel. It takes tremendous effort and then some.

 

[Howard]

I see Freud's theory of defense mechanisms proven true. 😉

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I told you why, but you can't believe it. We don't want the pain. You have to pay for truth with your life, er at least your false ego, the one who pretends he's OK. You have to die to be reborn, they say. This is why. A cheat has to rationalize, repeat, has to. Nobody willingly admitts to how they really feel. It takes tremendous effort and then some.

Moonie, to be honest, your moral holy war would be better served if you yourself hadnt made the same mistakes no?
Kinda a Let he with no sin thing....

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonie, to be honest, your moral holy war would be better served if you yourself hadnt made the same mistakes no?
Kinda a Let he with no sin thing....
-------------------------------
Are you confusing the truth with a stone? 😀

 

[Freejack2]

Well opinions are like a$$holes and everyone has one, so heres my as...er opinion 😛

I love to cheat, but I know where and where not to cheat. I love to mod a game or put a cheat code in so I can do wild things in single player mode like have a car drive at 500mph or be indestructible. Usually I'll do this after I've played through the game.
However I DO NOT use cheats online unless a server is specifically designated a cheat server. It's one thing to cheat when I'm playing by myself, no one gets hurt and I have a lot of fun. On the other hand playing online games cheating hurts other players. I also believe one doesn't need to win the game to have fun. The fun is in the playing.