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Why do people cheat?
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dabuddha
Lifer
if you're talking about college, then they are losers. Of course they'll try to come up with excuses for thier actions but I guess the best one is that they realize they're stupid and need a way to "succeed." (This whole line of reasoning deals with people who cheat on courses in their major. like programming courses for a CSE major.)
as for online gaming, that I dunno. For example, I play Diablo 2 frequently and I use the maphack. Would that be considered cheating?
as for online gaming, that I dunno. For example, I play Diablo 2 frequently and I use the maphack. Would that be considered cheating?
Two words.
No Morals
No Morals
MomAndSkoorbaby
Diamond Member
Cheaters ruin it for the rest of us who try and do things the correct way. :|
I never said anything about "Cant accomplish anything on thier own....", Others did.
so what, the fact that you went to tech school and couldn't even get thru their minimum # of bs classess makes you out to be even less credible. my Assumption was IN your favor. Duuuhhh.
Ends does not justify means. never has never will. you go off in other threads about how people SHOULD do this and that, apparently that only applies to others and not to you.
Like i said, Not only do you admit to cheating, you try and rationalize it. You think you didn't do anything wrong.
dabuddha
Lifer
That?s true to a point but Shockwave has a point. I too had to take BS classes to get my degree which I KNOW for a fact I?ll never use. Mainly because I already learned the same sh!t in high school. But the universities don't seem to be too eager to change their curriculum. Hell, the MIS degree at my university still requires COBOL. And my CSE degree required me to learn Pascal which I already knew.
that's fine. one can choose to rationalize all they want. you can claim it doesn't make you any less of a person in real life. fine. BUT, you should also expect that if i see that person posting in another thread on ISSUES of principle, than ya, i'll take what that person has to say with a grain of salt, because by his own admission, the rules (principles) only applies to him when he FEELS it does.
Mrpilot007
Senior member
The funniest thing about cheating, in general, is that no matter what you do in life you can not escape the fact that, "what comes around, goes around" or "you reap what you sow".
No matter how hard they try, the cheating will eventually come around to bite them in the arse. They may be too ignorant or oblivious when they are bitten but it still happens. Just think back to all the bad stuff that happened to you and wonder why it really happened? If you always pass up the guy broken down on the side of the road, its no wonder no one stops for you. If you cheat all the time in online games, its no wonder your computer never really runs the way you want it to... 🙂
No matter how hard they try, the cheating will eventually come around to bite them in the arse. They may be too ignorant or oblivious when they are bitten but it still happens. Just think back to all the bad stuff that happened to you and wonder why it really happened? If you always pass up the guy broken down on the side of the road, its no wonder no one stops for you. If you cheat all the time in online games, its no wonder your computer never really runs the way you want it to... 🙂
your going the karma route. mb. for me it's simple, people that cheat are people that want to always take shortcuts. get results w/o the work. that kind of work ethic always leads to sloppier work. sloppier work leads to bite in the ass. not so much karma or kizmet but you lay that kind of foundation so what do you expect type thing.
dabuddha
Lifer
But you see, he is standing up for his principles. He believes those extra classes are a waste of time. As far as protesting it with the Dean and whatnot, I don?t know how far he took it. But during my college "career," I would protest monthly about these extra stupid classes. I'd go to the student congress meetings. They really don't care as long as they get paid. I myself never cheated in these courses but they were not beneficial at all to me.
Ok, lets do this. 2 scenarios...
#1: We have a student. He took a few elective courses in HS to help out in college. Now, he is forced to take, oh, lets say accounting. In HS this student took Accounting I & II. Now, in first year accounting, he knows it all (In terms of what is covered). Knowing he knows it all, he never does homework. Always "cheats". No one has ever even seen him open his book. he copies homework and hands it in, obviously not learning the material. BUT! Come test time he aces every one. No problems. He aces them because he knows it, he learned it already 2 years ago! Is he cheating by copying the homework, even though he knows all the formulas, all the material?
#2: We have our average student. He cant hardly balance his checkbook without errors. Obvously, accounting is giving him a bit of a challange. But alas! He WILL do it. So, he goes to study groups. At these study groups, people help him with problems. Show him exactly how formulas work. Etc etc, typical study group stuff. He does very well on his homework, gets straight A's. But! Come test time, on his won, he does mediocre. Say, low B's. Without the "asistsance" of the study group he just cant fully grasp it. The study group is his crutch, he does work hard but without help CANT do it. Is he cheating, since without assistance and being shown how it works, he cant do it?
Opinions please.
#1: We have a student. He took a few elective courses in HS to help out in college. Now, he is forced to take, oh, lets say accounting. In HS this student took Accounting I & II. Now, in first year accounting, he knows it all (In terms of what is covered). Knowing he knows it all, he never does homework. Always "cheats". No one has ever even seen him open his book. he copies homework and hands it in, obviously not learning the material. BUT! Come test time he aces every one. No problems. He aces them because he knows it, he learned it already 2 years ago! Is he cheating by copying the homework, even though he knows all the formulas, all the material?
#2: We have our average student. He cant hardly balance his checkbook without errors. Obvously, accounting is giving him a bit of a challange. But alas! He WILL do it. So, he goes to study groups. At these study groups, people help him with problems. Show him exactly how formulas work. Etc etc, typical study group stuff. He does very well on his homework, gets straight A's. But! Come test time, on his won, he does mediocre. Say, low B's. Without the "asistsance" of the study group he just cant fully grasp it. The study group is his crutch, he does work hard but without help CANT do it. Is he cheating, since without assistance and being shown how it works, he cant do it?
Opinions please.
And, I did talk to the teachers as well as administration. You have the option to test out of certain classes, most gen ed classes being the case.
Wanna know the funny part? NO ONE could test out of the Algebra class. Not 1 of the 60+ students. This is Algebra 1 people, not anything advanced. Tell me 60+ college students, and not one can do it, is an Algebra 1 test?
Wanna know why no one could? Because, it wasnt Algebra! Yes, you have the option of trying to test out. No, the test you take is NOT material covered in the course. Its magnitudes harder. Why? If you dont take the test, the college lost approx 1500 bucks off you.
It came down to money. I *had* to take the class otherwise the college lost money. Hmmm. Ok, force me to take it. Fine. I'll take the path of least resistance, since I know the material in the class, but not the material on the test to be exempt from the class, I'll go ahead and "cheat".
Oh, and the funny thing? Even the Algrebra teacher admitted the test out test wasnt truly a fair test in regards to the material to be covered in his class. We had horrid administration, but good teachers.
There is a national standardized exam for getting college credit called the CLEP test. it is administered at all college test centers. Are the exams harder than the classes they allow you to CLEP out of, OF COURSE. What would be the point of making the exam easier than the class. 🙁. I took a History Class exam my freshman year in college. I failed by 1 miserable point, but guess what, did i cheat to get thru the class?? hmmm, surprisingly i knew enough to not HAVE to cheat to get thru the class. Which is kind of the point, IF you didn't need to be in the class, why did you need to cheat to get thru it?? AND if you think knowledge of algebra is NOT necessary than you are lacking in wisdom and education. I use my algebra everyday and I'm glad i understood it the first time thru.
Anyway, bottom line your still rationalizing. You cheated. You are a cheat and no better than a liar. You have no credibility with me.
dabuddha
Lifer
jeez with that kind of rational thinking, i pity your children. Because you know they'll cheat one way or another in their lifetime. Sadly, everyone does it in one way or another
Is that what you'll tell your kids?
EDIT: and maybe the administration for these universities will take a step back and wonder why so many students cheat. Granted, most cheat because they're idiots. But there are those that feel like those classes are a waste of time and they are right. WTF is art appreciation going to do for me in my life? Absolutely nothing, especially since the teacher mostly showed movies and slept during the class (which is what most of the students were doing too)
there is a fine balance between teachers and parents explaining their actions to their children/students and the children / students just accepting what is being taught them w/o understanding. EVERY class can be a waste of time. just because a teacher is bad at teaching that particular class does not make it a waste of time. Latin used to be required in order to graduate certain schools. It is no longer required, is that a good thing?? mb mb not. Foreign languages are required, There is absolutely NO question that many english speaking americans could benefit from learning a foreign language. I remember taking Art appreciation and Music appreciation classes, I enjoyed them and felt i benefited from them BUT even if i didn't, i really did, any time you get exposure to culture, it does help.
as to my kids, yes, i expect honesty from them at all times. I set high standards for them. They will do what is necessary to get by in their lives i'm sure as we all do. we may compromise, BUT we should never hold compromise as the standard by which we live. We should hold to principle.
You think it is soo good to teach kids, oh everyone screws up so it's ok to live ur life as a screw up?? guess what, the level of expectations parents have for their kids is part of the determining factor as to the level of their achievements.
I feel sorry for your kids / or kids to be if you think that setting COMPROMISE as the standard to live by is the best way to prepare them.
doggiedog
ya i can go with that. i beat someone SOOO badly on SC BW (he had map hack too) that he called me a cheater. it happens.
On the other hand, i saw a guy w/ a win/loss/disc record of 400/3/200.
can you honestly tell me he wasn't cheating?? 200 disconnects and 3 loses?? it's only his incompetence at cheating that allowed him to get even the 3 losses. how sad.
Millenium's original post was regarding not only online gaming cheaters or test cheaters, but also people who take advantage of specials and the system. Anybody who PMs an incredible deal or coupon codes something then is a cheater, and I think there is a place where you can draw the line.
Most of you are saying that cheating no matter what is bad, which is maybe moral, but doesn't work in real life. Downloading an mp3, downloading south park episodes, and taking advantage of companies in their special deals can be considered cheating, yet I'm sure a good majority of you have downloaded several mp3's. This doesn't necessarily mean that this action is overall bad, because I know for one that since I started downloading mp3's I got more into music, and started buying CDs that I thought were worth my money.
As with cheating on other things, such as tests, that can be questionable as to where the fine line ends between cheating. Sure looking at somebody's else's paper or getting an advance copy of the test is cheating, but is looking at another person's essay and taking some of their ideas cheating? Is copying homework cheating?
Things you should consider before accusing everybody who cheats as assholes and losers in society.
Most of you are saying that cheating no matter what is bad, which is maybe moral, but doesn't work in real life. Downloading an mp3, downloading south park episodes, and taking advantage of companies in their special deals can be considered cheating, yet I'm sure a good majority of you have downloaded several mp3's. This doesn't necessarily mean that this action is overall bad, because I know for one that since I started downloading mp3's I got more into music, and started buying CDs that I thought were worth my money.
As with cheating on other things, such as tests, that can be questionable as to where the fine line ends between cheating. Sure looking at somebody's else's paper or getting an advance copy of the test is cheating, but is looking at another person's essay and taking some of their ideas cheating? Is copying homework cheating?
Things you should consider before accusing everybody who cheats as assholes and losers in society.
This is very harsh.
When I play RPG games on the computer, I frequently use characters editors and walkthroughs to complete the game. I do this, not because I am a loser or because I am an asshole, but because I do not have as much fun playing the game otherwise. With all the time demands I have in my life (wife, child, friends, work, sports, etc...), I simply do not have as much time as I used to. I still enjoy these games and want to play them.
People cheat all the time on the biggest world stages, from bumping cars in racing to small pushes and shoves in basketball to illegal stick work in hockey to obvious dives in soccer. This is the example that the role models are demonstrating to our youth. Children are taught that cheating is not cheating unless you are caught.
I too would like to think that eventually people will be caught or will reach a point where they cannot do the work because their cheating got them there illegally. In my experience with people though, this happens rarely if ever.
My advice is to forget about everybody else and to concentrate on yourself to do the best possible job you can.
Did you follow the conversation?? he clearly stated that he cheated because he felt that the class didn't really benefit him. then later he said he cheated because he felt that the algebra CLEP test was too hard, even tho he knew the material.
I didn't say EVERYONE who cheated, I didn't make those definitions. I said what he did constituted cheating and was no better than lying and as such has lost credibility as an honest person with me.
where did i use the words assholes and losers?
dabuddha
Lifer
Don?t know what world you live in but
does not sound very compromising. Bottom line, the issue isn't about bad teachers and it never was. It's about classes that are useless for a major. Again, Art appreciation did absolutely nothing for me except bore me for 3 hours a week and waste hundreds of dollars on. That's time I could have spent on a class related to programming or even learning more about my major. Why should the bridge designer care about European economics of the 17th century? I'd much rather have him concentrate on building the best bridge possible
EDIT: your last post just came up and I agree with you on him being in the wrong if he cheated because a class was too hard and it's related to his major
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Remember, winning isnt everything, it's the only thing. If by cheating you win, then you live up to the general expectation of society. It is only bad if you get caught. The people love a winner.
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