Why do Liberals want America to be like Europe?

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

No thicker than Tango, thank you very much.


BTW, you still have not answered my question.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

I don't pretend anything, and I do not understand the meaning you give to the word elitist. I have not said the proplem of discussing this issue on internet fora is the people, but the immanent structure of the channel. Remember? The medium is the message.

So.. everything I think is suitable to be written and discussed here is printed a couple of posts away from here. Both the US and the EU countries have their own problems, both could gain benefits from a mutual convergence in the economic and political governance schemes. This is already a banalization, every step forward in this discussion without specific data analysis would mean banalizing the subject even more. I don't like it: it's useless, time-consuming, and intellectually uncorrect

If you want, just focus on a single point of this comparison and maybe we'll be heading somewhere...

Oh, and living on the 37th floor I unfortunately do not have access to any basement. It would be nice to have one...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

Vic's just showing him why he's an "elite" member.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

Vic's just showing him why he's an "elite" member.

Sour grapes?

 

[totalcommand]

Conservatives want to believe that America is a perfect country. It is not.

There are things from Europe we can learn, just as there are things we can learn from Asia, Africa, Australia, and other people of this world. No need to sink into isolation and return to religious fundamentalism as the radical right would have it.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

Vic's just showing him why he's an "elite" member.

Sour grapes?

Nope, just pointing out your high-horse hypocrisy.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Instead of calling names, why don't you read again SLOWLY my post? They are comparable, it just takes A LOT of time and energy considering the number of complex variables involved. Actually I even advocated a slow convergence for both systems. Still, this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion.

Go get an education, if not academical, at least in good manners. My mother taught me those when I was 5.

:roll:

If you want to pretend to be some great elitist (which you are obviously not), why don't you argue the topic at hand instead of side-stepping it with something else entirely and then cowardly backing out with statements like "this complexity is the reason why internet fora are not the right place for such a discussion." In essence, you're trying to pass off the impression that you're the Great Geek and the rest of us peons are beneath the dust of your feet. To me, that is the height of bad manners (whether in real life or on "internet fora"), and I'm simply calling you out on it.
How about you get out of your mother's basement and get an education in proper social skills?

Really laying it on thick here Vic lol, acting that way is your modus operandi.

Vic's just showing him why he's an "elite" member.

Sour grapes?

Nope, just pointing out your high-horse hypocrisy.

That you think "elite" members are supposed to behave differently than other members? Ah... I see.

:roll:

 

[conjur]

No, you criticizing him for what you perceived as being elite (in thinking) while you issue ad hominems telling him to move out of his mother's basement.

Stop being so damned condescending all the time.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vic
BTW, you still have not answered my question.

My post was intentionally made in the same fashion as the OP's, you caught that - but not the tongue in cheek sarcasm. Look harder next time.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
No, you criticizing him for what you perceived as being elite (in thinking) while you issue ad hominems telling him to move out of his mother's basement.

Stop being so damned condescending all the time.

So? Did you read his posts? He deserved it.

The funny thing is that he was also ridiculous at the same time. All he did was further illustrate the fact that America and Europe are different and cannot be made the same. Which basically reinforced the OP. But he acted like he refuted the OP and my own argument when he did nothing of the sort. And because he decided to direct a few insults at me first before acting the fool...

 

[TNM93]

Liberals want America to be like Europe? I think you confuse what a liberal means in Europe to what a liberal means in America. Liberals are much more leftist in Europe than liberals in America.

Some programs, like universal healthcare, are employed in many industrialized countries outside of Europe. Canada, for instance. I also believe President Clinton enacted much sticter welfare reform when he was in office. As far as offshoring, many countries take issue with it, not just the US and Europe. Your argument seems far fetched that liberals are the same no matter what and want the same things everywhere.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur
No, you criticizing him for what you perceived as being elite (in thinking) while you issue ad hominems telling him to move out of his mother's basement.

Stop being so damned condescending all the time.

So? Did you read his posts? He deserved it.

The funny thing is that he was also ridiculous at the same time. All he did was further illustrate the fact that America and Europe are different and cannot be made the same. Which basically reinforced the OP. But he acted like he refuted the OP and my own argument when he did nothing of the sort. And because he decided to direct a few insults at me first before acting the fool...

Uncorrect. I said the two areas are different under so many point of view that a comparison requires energies, time and the right communication channel. Internet fora do not provide the right medium for such a dicussion. I actually advocated a mutual convergence between the two ideological, political and economical systems as being beneficial to both. You probably missed my last post. I do never insult you, but not because you didn't deserve it. I just try to avoid arguing with high-school kids. If you are older than this, not that would be a problem.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tango
Uncorrect. I said the two areas are different under so many point of view that a comparison requires energies, time and the right communication channel. Internet fora do not provide the right medium for such a dicussion. You probably missed my last post. I do never insult you, but not because you didn't deserve it. I just try to avoid arguing with high-school kids. If you are older than this, not that would be a problem.

Ah yes... you keep insulting me based on my supposed age or level of education, denying that you ever do it, all the while being unable to compose a basic sentence or spell simple words. Lovely.

We discuss anything the mods allow here, pal. You aren't a mod, so you don't get to decide what we do and do not discuss, regardless of how you feel about internet fora as a medium. Your opinion was noted and disregarded.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Uncorrect. I said the two areas are different under so many point of view that a comparison requires energies, time and the right communication channel. Internet fora do not provide the right medium for such a dicussion. You probably missed my last post. I do never insult you, but not because you didn't deserve it. I just try to avoid arguing with high-school kids. If you are older than this, not that would be a problem.

Ah yes... you keep insulting me based on my supposed age or level of education, denying that you ever do it, all the while being unable to compose a basic sentence or spell simple words. Lovely.

We discuss anything the mods allow here, pal. You aren't a mod, so you don't get to decide what we do and do not discuss, regardless of how you feel about internet fora as a medium. Your opinion was noted and disregarded.

As I recall, he's not the first by a long shot to question your age on these forums. Perhaps you should introspect on this for a bit. If nothing else, it would be a break from the tedium of tirelessly refuting logic and reality that summarizes your posts here.

 

[Rainsford]

I usually try and stay away from Europe bashing threads, especially when they try and link liberals and Europe. However, I find it interesting that for all the Europe bashing, there is at least one thing I think conservatives would like about Europe. Most European countries, with a few exceptions of course, are quite a bit closer to the police state mentality than we are in America. England especially does not seem to feel very strongly about putting limits on their police, and certainly their court system is nothing most Americans would be proud to have. Many other European countries are the same way, for all our talk of "police states", Europe seems to have a much lower level of personal freedom than we do here in the US.

I am not going to pass judgement on the entire region for that, there are certainly good things as well, and overall I like Europe. However, I just thought I'd throw a bit of common ground out there for the conservatives who seem to dislike Europe so much. I'm sure you don't like all the "socialism" and gay rights, but I imagine you can get behind pervasive surveilance, expanded police powers, outlawing encryption where the government doesn't have the keys (in France, I believe), etc, etc. Certainly you guys can appreciate that!

And before anyone gets too mad, I'm kind of kidding here. Still...

 

[lordsaytor]

Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.

Oh yeah, Liberals are anti-freedom. They should move to Europe so that the Republicans (I associate them with conservatives) will be the only party you can vote for in the elections.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: lordsaytor

Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.

Oh yeah, Liberals are anti-freedom. They should move to Europe so that the Republicans (I associate them with conservatives) will be the only party you can vote for in the elections.

I'm less puzzled by "anti-freedom" than I am by this concept of "freemakret socialism". It sounds interesting, I think we should implement it...whatever "it" is.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RBachman
As I recall, he's not the first by a long shot to question your age on these forums. Perhaps you should introspect on this for a bit. If nothing else, it would be a break from the tedium of tirelessly refuting logic and reality that summarizes your posts here.

There's nothing to introspect about when every single one of those people who have questioned my age have done so purely for the purpose of desperation ad hominem after the weaknesses of their tactics and/or philosophies have been exposed.

One amusing thing (among many) about internet forums is the way they "transcend" reality. Individuals get so locked in their petty philosophies and squabbles that most insults are usually the opposite of reality. Mature persons who grow impatient of obvious immaturities get their age questioned, educated persons who tire of ignorance get their education questioned, logical persons get accused of illogic, and so forth. No blow is too low when the absurd is the norm. When information is limited, disinformation becomes the most powerful weapon of all.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RBachman
As I recall, he's not the first by a long shot to question your age on these forums. Perhaps you should introspect on this for a bit. If nothing else, it would be a break from the tedium of tirelessly refuting logic and reality that summarizes your posts here.

There's nothing to introspect about when every single one of those people who have questioned my age have done so purely for the purpose of desperation ad hominem after the weaknesses of their tactics and/or philosophies have been exposed.

One amusing thing (among many) about internet forums is the way they "transcend" reality. Individuals get so locked in their petty philosophies and squabbles that most insults are usually the opposite of reality. Mature persons who grow impatient of obvious immaturities get their age questioned, educated persons who tire of ignorance get their education questioned, logical persons get accused of illogic, and so forth. No blow is too low when the absurd is the norm. When information is limited, disinformation becomes the most powerful weapon of all.

How do you explain the many well-respected forum members who aren't magnets for petty insults then?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I usually try and stay away from Europe bashing threads, especially when they try and link liberals and Europe. However, I find it interesting that for all the Europe bashing, there is at least one thing I think conservatives would like about Europe. Most European countries, with a few exceptions of course, are quite a bit closer to the police state mentality than we are in America. England especially does not seem to feel very strongly about putting limits on their police, and certainly their court system is nothing most Americans would be proud to have. Many other European countries are the same way, for all our talk of "police states", Europe seems to have a much lower level of personal freedom than we do here in the US.

I am not going to pass judgement on the entire region for that, there are certainly good things as well, and overall I like Europe. However, I just thought I'd throw a bit of common ground out there for the conservatives who seem to dislike Europe so much. I'm sure you don't like all the "socialism" and gay rights, but I imagine you can get behind pervasive surveilance, expanded police powers, outlawing encryption where the government doesn't have the keys (in France, I believe), etc, etc. Certainly you guys can appreciate that!

And before anyone gets too mad, I'm kind of kidding here. Still...

Excellent post. This, for me, is why I don't like the Europe praising that is so prevalent here. Sure, they have gay rights, but not freedom of religion. Sure, they have "free" healthcare, but not the right to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure. And so forth with many examples.
I have no desire to live like that and IMO, the one comes from the other. The lack of freedoms is the price of socialism. And I, for one, would rather be poor and free than pampered as a slave. Some individuals here, however, lack that same confidence and maturity.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Uncorrect. I said the two areas are different under so many point of view that a comparison requires energies, time and the right communication channel. Internet fora do not provide the right medium for such a dicussion. You probably missed my last post. I do never insult you, but not because you didn't deserve it. I just try to avoid arguing with high-school kids. If you are older than this, not that would be a problem.

Ah yes... you keep insulting me based on my supposed age or level of education, denying that you ever do it, all the while being unable to compose a basic sentence or spell simple words. Lovely.

We discuss anything the mods allow here, pal. You aren't a mod, so you don't get to decide what we do and do not discuss, regardless of how you feel about internet fora as a medium. Your opinion was noted and disregarded.

You sound like somebody having the kind of emotive reactions that are usually associated with that period of life. I did not call you names like you did. Anyway, that's fine for me

I do apologize for my spelling. As you probably can understand english is not my first language, being in fact my fourth one. Still, I should try to do better, and I do apologize for this.
I'm perfectly fine with the idea that you can discuss whatever you want. I just don't like to lose time on theoretically flawed discussions, expecially considering the limitations of internet fora. I stressed this concept more than enough. You are more than welcome to come to Columbia University in New York for a symposium on different economic policies and the effect they have in both developed and developing countries. I will be among the lecturers together with far-more-qualified-than-me people from the UNDP, the world bank and IMF.
Mid November if you want.
Regards

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RBachman
How do you explain the many well-respected forum members who aren't magnets for petty insults then?

What's your point, n00b? I'm not here for the popularity contest. I speak my mind and don't hold back. For every one who hates me, there are 10 or more who respect me and tell me so.

 

[lordsaytor]

Originally posted by: maluckey
I want the breathtakingly extravagant taxation, the rampant unemployment, and a union that makes it impossible to fire anyone. Yup!! Guve the EU Baby!!

Don't be so sure. The US host some of the most rotten unions in existence. A lot of American companies are being f**ked in the ass by their own unions, including but not limited to, the automakers, and the airlines.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tango
Uncorrect. I said the two areas are different under so many point of view that a comparison requires energies, time and the right communication channel. Internet fora do not provide the right medium for such a dicussion. You probably missed my last post. I do never insult you, but not because you didn't deserve it. I just try to avoid arguing with high-school kids. If you are older than this, not that would be a problem.

Ah yes... you keep insulting me based on my supposed age or level of education, denying that you ever do it, all the while being unable to compose a basic sentence or spell simple words. Lovely.

We discuss anything the mods allow here, pal. You aren't a mod, so you don't get to decide what we do and do not discuss, regardless of how you feel about internet fora as a medium. Your opinion was noted and disregarded.

You sound like somebody having the kind of emotive reactions that are usually associated with that period of life. I did not call you names like you did. Anyway, that's fine for me

I do apologize for my spelling. As you probably can understand english is not my first language, being in fact my fourth one. Still, I should try to do better, and I do apologize for this.
I'm perfectly fine with the idea that you can discuss whatever you want. I just don't like to lose time on theoretically flawed discussions, expecially considering the limitations of internet fora. I stressed this concept more than enough. You are more than welcome to come to Columbia University in New York for a symposium on different economic policies and the effect they have in both developed and developing countries. I will be among the lecturers together with far-more-qualified-than-me people from the UNDP, the world bank and IMF.
Mid November if you want.
Regards

Well, thank you milord for slumming it here on ATPN.