Why do Jews get thier own race?

"Antisemitism isn't refering to the religion of 'semite', but to the semitic ethnic group. The term itself is loaded with the notion that jews are a people, and not just a religion. Combine that with the predominance of Jewish 'looking' people in the Israeli government (when was the last time you saw an Ethiopian, albeit Jewish, politician in Israeli government when watching news about Israel?) and you can see why the world correctly believes that there is a distinct Jewish people apart from the homonymic religion."

I so agree with you, Maetryx. I've always been fascinated with this whole religion/race relationship. I remember in high school as I rode with two of my classmates (one was Jewish), I kept asking for explanation on whether being a Jew was a religion or race. I never got a real answer. I gave up, lest I got on their nerves. But I still don't understand it. If being a Jew is having a belief system, then why is there such a thing as "secular Jews"? It doesn't make sense to me. It is used interchangeably, but it doesn't seem right. If they're a race, then how do you explain Ethopian Jews and other "tribes"? It seems to me that it is a mainstream thing, where the mainstream or popular Jews are the familiar ones we see. Hence the classification race-wise, it seems. I don't like the confusion.

Even in this thread, no one seems to have a definite answer. I am still as confused as before.

Vespasian, true that racist is used to mean bigot. But it isn't the correct definition. Racist is used so casually that it is hard to give it a definite meaning. If taken strictly, I am not sure it would mean "bigot".

 

[Random Variable]

Vespasian, true that racist is used to mean bigot. But it isn't the correct definition. Racist is used so casually that it is hard to give it a definite meaning. If taken strictly, I am not sure it would mean "bigot"

Well, technically it is a "correct" definition.

 

[justint]

It's kind of sad when I meet Jews even from the United States who stereotype people as Jewish based on thier looks and go so far as to completely deny Ethiopian Jews any status as Jews.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: justint
It's kind of sad when I meet Jews even from the United States who stereotype people as Jewish based on thier looks and go so far as to completely deny Ethiopian Jews any status as Jews.

That whole thing has nothing to do with what they look like. That argument has been raging for years. They have a slightly different belief system, and there is nothing to show that they descend from Jews. I'm not saying I agree with that argument at all, but that's where it comes from.

 

[zippy]

I'm Jewish and I don't consider Judaism a race. Many people get confused between 'racist' and 'bigoted' and/or 'prejudiced.'

When filling out forms that ask for race/ethnicity there is no box to check for 'Jewish.'

 

[no0b]

Originally posted by: zippy
I'm Jewish and I don't consider Judaism a race. Many people get confused between 'racist' and 'bigoted' and/or 'prejudiced.'

When filling out forms that ask for race/ethnicity there is no box to check for 'Jewish.'

not yet

 

[TallBill]

hehe.. at first i was agreeing with notfred. Then, i realized that i've never heard someone refer to an anti-jewish comment as racist. Therefore, i came to the conclusion that he hangs with idiots Or, hes from kentucky.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Being racially Jewish != being religiously Jewish, and vice versa.

 

[Ynog]

This is a very stupid thread but this might help.

I think you might want to define race.

This is from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate® Dictionary 10th Edition:

Main Entry: race
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza
Date: 1580
1 : a breeding stock of animals
2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>
3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type
4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition
5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength


#2 Clearly states that jewish people can be considered a race much like the Nazi considered Aryans a race.
Aryans were no more than characteristics of a group of people.
Depending on how narrow you want to make it you can take any group and make a race out of them.

Where you go from there is up to you.

 

[schizoid]

Jews rule.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: schizoid
Jews rule.

Thanks for sharing that deep, insightful, profound comment.

 

[Kevin]

I remember one day in Catholic School, someone was taking about Jews and the Priest went "If you are born a Jew, you'll always be a Jew". It has no effect in writing, but he's got this monotone voice which made it funny and weird at the same time.

And yes, most of my Jewish friends just say they are Jewish. FOr example, we'll talk about whose Italian and whose Irish. Usually the Jews reply with "Jewish".

I could care less what religion or ethnicity anyone is. If you're an as-hole, I'm gonna hate you either way...

 

[SherEPunjab]

Jews are not a race. If you are talking about Western Jews, then it is definitely not one. A lot of Jews are the product of mixing with Europeans and as such it is difficult to classify them as one race. In addition, Arabs are also semitic people, and share a common ancestery with the 'original' Jews. Yes, you can still differentiate between an Israelite and an Aryan, but with all the mixing that has taken place with those people, it can be difficult, if not impossible. I can still tell most of the time. Most Jews dont' look like Alicia Silverstone or Natalie portman.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Jews are not a race. If you are talking about Western Jews, then it is definitely not one. A lot of Jews are the product of mixing with Europeans and as such it is difficult to classify them as one race. In addition, Arabs are also semitic people, and share a common ancestery with the 'original' Jews. Yes, you can still differentiate between an Israelite and an Aryan, but with all the mixing that has taken place with those people, it can be difficult, if not impossible. I can still tell most of the time. Most Jews dont' look like Alicia Silverstone or Natalie portman.

We dont all look like John Goodman either.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Jews are not a race. If you are talking about Western Jews, then it is definitely not one. A lot of Jews are the product of mixing with Europeans and as such it is difficult to classify them as one race. In addition, Arabs are also semitic people, and share a common ancestery with the 'original' Jews. Yes, you can still differentiate between an Israelite and an Aryan, but with all the mixing that has taken place with those people, it can be difficult, if not impossible. I can still tell most of the time. Most Jews dont' look like Alicia Silverstone or Natalie portman.

We dont all look like John Goodman either.

I know Semitic people can be very diverse, although i doubt that many modern western 'jews' would be classified as semites if dna testing was done. really, i dont' see the point of this thread but for the sake of discussion, I can usually tell the difference. On the other hand, I have a very difficult time telling the difference between some hispanics and whites... now that would be another topic altogether...

 

[schizoid]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: schizoid
Jews rule.

Thanks for sharing that deep, insightful, profound comment.

Well, you're right...I did take a few inductive liberties there.

I mean, I'm a Jew, and I rule, so I thought maybe all jews rule.

And hey...Jesus was jewish, and he's almost as cool as I am, so there you go.

Seriously though...I find it a mite strange (although i guess I shouldn't be surprised, given who we're dealing with here) that no one has even mentioned Tay-Sachs Disease (and if someone has, well, kudos to you).

Whatever...I'm sure we'll all discuss this at our next "how should we control the media and distribute the wealth" meeting.

 

[Netopia]

The notion of race is a sham anyway.

Are you nuts? Dogs are all the same species, are you going to say that "breeds" are a sham? Yes they are all canine, but no... they are not all exactly the same, just as we are all Homo Sapien but not all the same race.

If you think this is untrue, give me some documented cases of caucasians with no background of african ancestors contracting sickle cell enemia.

It's called anti-semitism, the person you heard say that was just stoopid.

Ummm... have you even looked up the definition of what a "semite" is? They are the desendants of Noah's son Shem. The following copied directly from definition number ONE on dictionary.com

Sem·ite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smt)
n.
A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.

Because of this, I always find it humerous when they say that Arabs are "antisemetic" when that word actually would mean that they hate themselves. The word is about as "stoopid" as homophobe.



Are Jews a race? Yes, if you describe a race as a group with a distinct genoelogical commonality. For instance, there are Jewish Genetic diseases that don't appear in other groups. The Ashkenazy Jews, for example, are plagued by Tay-Sachs which is a degenerative nerve disease that makes people go blind, become retarded and die before they are teenagers.

Another genetic mutation causes Canavan's disease. About 2.5 % of the Ashkenazy Jews carry the gene that causes the disease. One in thirty carry the gene for familian dysautonomia which leaves people paralyzed. Abou 6% carry the non-fatal Gaucher disease.

I could go on... but why bother. The question in this whole thread is "what makes a race or breed"? We are definitly all "people" and all equal in being human and deserving rights and the like, but that doesn't mean that we should be stupid and say that we are all exactly the same!

As for the origin of the Jewish race.... originally, the race was thought by Jews to be those who were of direct sanguinuity (blood line) to Abraham. For countless score, the Jews kept a VERY precise geneological history all the way back to Abraham and even farther.... back to Adam, actually. This was not God's intent for His "chosen people" though. The Jews believed that whoever was a relitive of Abraham was chosen, but two ancestors of Jesus... Ruth who was a Moabitess and Rahab who was a prostitute from Jericho wheren't related to Abraham at all. In fact, countering the Jewish belief that one was the "child of Abraham" if they were his decendants, Jesus said:

Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

And then in Galations it is said:
GAL 3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9 So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.



After a time and especially accellerated after Rome sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD and the Jews dispersed and went all over the place, the bloodline became more and more dilute. The Jews had a fairly low percentage of intermarriage when they were in Israel because they had almost nothing but other Jews to choose from. Once they spread to other nations, intermarriage with other indigenous people and the occurance of other peoples accepting their religion produced a less and less distinctive geneological commonality.

One of the coolest things I've ever seen though is that people for centuries wondered what the Bible meant in Revelations when it says that in the end times Isreal will be surrounded by her enemies... but for 19 centuries there WAS NO ISRAEL! And then, about a half century ago, the Jews started to regather and move back into what was historical Israel. This had never and probably will never occur anywhere in the world and history again! Can you imagine Inca's or Aztec's suddenly coming from everywhere and re-establishing their ancient nations?
That's gotta make you say hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Joe

 

[m0ti]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
Jews are not a race. If you are talking about Western Jews, then it is definitely not one. A lot of Jews are the product of mixing with Europeans and as such it is difficult to classify them as one race. In addition, Arabs are also semitic people, and share a common ancestery with the 'original' Jews. Yes, you can still differentiate between an Israelite and an Aryan, but with all the mixing that has taken place with those people, it can be difficult, if not impossible. I can still tell most of the time. Most Jews dont' look like Alicia Silverstone or Natalie portman.

We dont all look like John Goodman either.

I know Semitic people can be very diverse, although i doubt that many modern western 'jews' would be classified as semites if dna testing was done. really, i dont' see the point of this thread but for the sake of discussion, I can usually tell the difference. On the other hand, I have a very difficult time telling the difference between some hispanics and whites... now that would be another topic altogether...

Actually, if you want to talk genetics, they found some conclusive evidence. Saw a cool PBS documentary on it.

Check out: link and link

 

[Cat13]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: BDawg
We're all the same species, same race.

AMEN!

Homo Sapien.... Human Race!


One World
One Race

One World Wide Vision.

I'm Jewish and my wife is Catholic. We have been married for 10 years and have two wonderful children. I am by no means religious; my wife goes to church occasionally. We don't push either side on the kids. We just raise them with high morale standards so they can grow up with no bias towards any one group. Sure, we have our differences of opinions on what to believe but in the end it all meets to the same conclusion, G-D. Right now, that works for our family.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I don't see how you can say there is a Jewish race, because race is based strictly on genetic components.

Is anybody really that ignorant?

 

[FelixDeCat]

They are Isrealis.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

They are Isrealis.

Nevermind . . .

 

[Netopia]

They are Isrealis.

Ummm....NO! That's a nationality based on the CURRENT Nation of Israel. It would be sort of dumb to say, for instance, that a Jew born in NY and who lived only here their entire life is an "Israeli".

Hey... I had hoped for a little discussion on my previous post. None?


Joe

 

[pulse8]

I don't believe being a Jew is a race because you can't convert to a race.

No matter how much I wanted, I can't convert to be black.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Netopia

They are Isrealis.

Ummm....NO! That's a nationality based on the CURRENT Nation of Israel. It would be sort of dumb to say, for instance, that a Jew born in NY and who lived only here their entire life is an "Israeli".

Hey... I had hoped for a little discussion on my previous post. None?


Joe

It is a unique condition as the CURRENT Nation of Isreal was created to give the "Jews" a home. Therefore they are Isrealis - or at least could consider themselves Isreali by default.