Why do i see so much ANTI PROFIT sentiment on AT Forums.

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

 

[spliffstar69]

Dunno But I agree "Why do i see so much ANTI PROFIT sentiment on AT Forums."

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: spliffstar69
Dunno But I agree "Why do i see so much ANTI PROFIT sentiment on AT Forums."

Because few if any of these kids have ever been involved on the management side of some of these businesses.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

so to you melted Bryers Ice Cream is the SAME product as a Cold firm Bryers Ice Cream? the only difference as you put it is Presentation?

 

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

so to you melted Bryers Ice Cream is the SAME product as a Cold firm Bryers Ice Cream? the only difference as you put it is Presentation?

Yup. They are. And if I'm in the store and I see both containers sitting side by side, I'll buy the frozen one, because its presentation is better.

Same ingredients + same company + same container + different temperatures = same products, different presentation.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

so to you melted Bryers Ice Cream is the SAME product as a Cold firm Bryers Ice Cream? the only difference as you put it is Presentation?

Yup. They are. And if I'm in the store and I see both containers sitting side by side, I'll buy the frozen one, because its presentation is better.

Same ingredients + same company + same container + different temperatures = same products, different presentation.

you missed the analogy.

if i were selling melted ice cream for $1.00 and Frozen stuff for $2.00 which would you buy? would you consider that a ripoff?

 

[Pepsi90919]

It makes me quite nauceaus.

makes you quite what?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dquan97
How can someone get paid $16/hr plus benefits JUST to stock vending machines? Seems really outrageous

Why not? If he's dependable, can fix and maintain the machines and lifts an incredible amount of soda cans each day, he's worth that much.

Hell, look how much unskilled union auto workers start at.

Heh, I lifted cases and cases of soda twice a week at my old job at a country club. The pro shop would get an order of pop totalling about $800-$900 directly from Coca-Cola, and they would only hand truck it to our doorstep; we would have to take it to the back room. I probably lifted 700-800 pounds of pop on those days.

The most I ever got paid at that job was $8.50/hr. (I started at $5.25/hr.). Of course, the free pop and candy for employees was a nice benefit. I stayed there for four years.

4 years and you never considered getting a hand cart to make the job easier?? They're only about $20 for a cheap one, and you could carry 10-12 cases of pop at a time. You need to work smarter, not harder

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA
A lot of the attitude stems from this prevailing tide of thought in this country: "Steal from Peter to pay Paul"

It's the quasi-socialist mentality that many americans have bought into. Big Corporations are Evil, Government is Benevolent. Corporations are out to make a profit, Government is not.

It makes me quite nauceaus.

well corporations aren't completely innocent. some of the payoffs these CEO's get for running their companies in the ground IS obscene. there is corruption in large corporations just like there is in ANY large organization. it's inevitable.

See, you're infected too. Who are you to say what a CEO should be making? What is obscene? The market decides that. A

nd those that are corrupt will be found out. Enron, Waste Management, Worldcom ring a bell. I don't deny that it happens, but corruption usually is it's own worse enemy. It happens in Corps and the public gets pissed, it happens in the govt, the public re-elects the accused. People don't view Corps as providing them with anything, only costing them, while they view the government as providing their needs. So they look the other way more often.

 

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

so to you melted Bryers Ice Cream is the SAME product as a Cold firm Bryers Ice Cream? the only difference as you put it is Presentation?

Yup. They are. And if I'm in the store and I see both containers sitting side by side, I'll buy the frozen one, because its presentation is better.

Same ingredients + same company + same container + different temperatures = same products, different presentation.

you missed the analogy.

if i were selling melted ice cream for $1.00 and Frozen stuff for $2.00 which would you buy? would you consider that a ripoff?

I would buy the frozen ice cream obviously. Refrozen ice cream is GROSS (remember the power outage?). Refrigerated pop is the same thing as you get in the machines...it just requires a little more work.

We're getting into technicalities here.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

It makes me quite nauceaus.

makes you quite what?

sick

 

[Vic]

It's not just on AT, it's everywhere. It's one thing to shop for the best price and deal (hell, I do that) but it's quite another to insist that the individual or company selling the product or service to you do it at a loss ("at cost" is in fact always at a loss because of the simple cost of doing business).

Do YOU work for free?

I know I don't and never will. Whenever I get a customer who insists that I work for zero commission, I politely inform them that I can't and won't do that. If they insist, I terminate the relationship and sale. Can't lose what you're weren't going to get... but you can save yourself a lot of wasted time.

edit: and if you don't like the price, don't buy the product. It's as simple as that. I have no sympathy for someone who bitches about the high price of soda while they're putting their money in the machine.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jumpr

We're getting into technicalities here.

no we're not. they're providing the service of delivering the soda to a new location and refrigerating it. that service has a cost. that is what you're paying for.

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Hello pot, meet kettle.

Hi there.

Seriously though. I'm not getting ripped off by vending machines unless I buy from them, and that holds true for everyone. My definition of ripoff is a product that's available for sale elsewhere for an obscenely smaller sum of money. Your definition may be different, but to me, soda machines are ripoffs.

and this is where your ignorance is truly showing.

IT'S NOT THE SAME PRODUCT. WHEN will you get that thru your head.

To me, it IS the same product. It's just packaged differently. If I see two objects with the same UPC, they're the same product. Vanilla coke tastes the same from the shelf or the machine. The difference is how it's presented or marketed. Same brand, same product, same barcode, same name = same product.

Different presentation != different product.

so to you melted Bryers Ice Cream is the SAME product as a Cold firm Bryers Ice Cream? the only difference as you put it is Presentation?

Yup. They are. And if I'm in the store and I see both containers sitting side by side, I'll buy the frozen one, because its presentation is better.

Same ingredients + same company + same container + different temperatures = same products, different presentation.

you missed the analogy.

if i were selling melted ice cream for $1.00 and Frozen stuff for $2.00 which would you buy? would you consider that a ripoff?

I would buy the frozen ice cream obviously. Refrozen ice cream is GROSS (remember the power outage?). Refrigerated pop is the same thing as you get in the machines...it just requires a little more work.

We're getting into technicalities here.

Ok... Shift analogies:

Beer

'nuff said.

 

[vi edit]

I would buy the frozen ice cream obviously. Refrozen ice cream is GROSS (remember the power outage?). Refrigerated pop is the same thing as you get in the machines...it just requires a little more work.

The thing is - you are paying for convenience. It's an intangible concept, but does have a value attached to it. This isn't just about pop machines. It's like this for nearly all possible industries/products.

You go golfing and you'll pay more for golf balls at the course than you will at Target. Go boating and you'll pay more for gas at the marina than you will at the gas station 5 miles down the road. Go to a concert and you'll pay more for a tee shirt there than you will online or at a store.

Convenience comes at a cost. It's not free. Pop machines provide you the convenience of having a cold pop NOW. Not many people can carry their own cooler around at all times with chilled down beverages. A business minded person recognizes this and capitalizes on it. And you know what? Most people don't have a problem with that because they are being provided a cold beverage that they couldn't easily produce themselves.

 

[vi edit]

Have you ever ordered steak from a restaurant? How about a cheeseburger? How about a salad from a restaraunt? Or a baked potato?

Do you have any problems ordering those? You do know that those items are marked up anywhere from 50% to a 1000% over what you could buy/bake/make them for right?

But you still order them right?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA
A lot of the attitude stems from this prevailing tide of thought in this country: "Steal from Peter to pay Paul"

It's the quasi-socialist mentality that many americans have bought into. Big Corporations are Evil, Government is Benevolent. Corporations are out to make a profit, Government is not.

It makes me quite nauceaus.

well corporations aren't completely innocent. some of the payoffs these CEO's get for running their companies in the ground IS obscene. there is corruption in large corporations just like there is in ANY large organization. it's inevitable.

See, you're infected too. Who are you to say what a CEO should be making? What is obscene? The market decides that. A

nd those that are corrupt will be found out. Enron, Waste Management, Worldcom ring a bell. I don't deny that it happens, but corruption usually is it's own worse enemy. It happens in Corps and the public gets pissed, it happens in the govt, the public re-elects the accused. People don't view Corps as providing them with anything, only costing them, while they view the government as providing their needs. So they look the other way more often.

I disagree. Market conditions and factors aren't NEARLY as effective in pricing CEO's as they are in other commodity items. Competion model is NOT perfect and the defects tend to be greater on the higher end, larger corporations, govt etc. does it work long run? mb, but in the long run we're all dead is the classic saying for that.

Commodity items, Free market and competition works GREAT, higher end specialty items not as well.

 

[BadgerFan]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I agree. In reality if you don't like it, and it's not something you need to live, then don't buy it. Do I think it's GROSSLY OBSCENE to charge $3.50 for a drink of soda at a movie theater? Maybe, but I'd do it if I ran one. And, if I don't like it (which I don't), I'll make up for that by bringing in my own candy

As someone who managed a movie theatre for four years, I completely agree with you that $3.50 for a soda is outrageous. Movie Theatres make a KILLING on concessions sales, but that isn't the whole picture!

Think of this, to run a theatre you need managers, concessions staff, ushers, projectionists and night janitors to clean the place because it gets utterly trashed every day. You need ice making machines, pop dispensing equipment, cups with logos on them, water filtration systems. Not to mention a lease or construction costs on the building, electricity for the lobby, AC/Heat for a large building, the projectors themselves, consumable bulbs for the projectors, multi thousand dollar digital audio equipment, electricity to make all that equipment run. You have to lease all of the movie prints, and pay costs if they are damaged in your posession. You have to pay maintenence on the movie theatre because with so many people coming and going things often break, and their is grafitti. There are garbage collection costs etc. etc.

The theatre industry is CUT THROAT at best. It is very hard to keep your costs down so that ticket prices are reasonable. Low cost tickets will get you in the door, then once you are captive they hope you buy some food so that they can turn a profit. Yes, food and drinks are expensive, but if you can't wait two hours to stuff your face or have a sip of coke, then I guess you will pay outrageous prices. Considering all that is involved, the expense of equipment and the quality(assuming you are going to a well outfitted and run cinema) going to a matinee performance of a modern movie is the DEAL OF THE CENTURY. Assuming you do not buy any concessions.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA
A lot of the attitude stems from this prevailing tide of thought in this country: "Steal from Peter to pay Paul"

It's the quasi-socialist mentality that many americans have bought into. Big Corporations are Evil, Government is Benevolent. Corporations are out to make a profit, Government is not.

It makes me quite nauceaus.

well corporations aren't completely innocent. some of the payoffs these CEO's get for running their companies in the ground IS obscene. there is corruption in large corporations just like there is in ANY large organization. it's inevitable.

See, you're infected too. Who are you to say what a CEO should be making? What is obscene? The market decides that. A

nd those that are corrupt will be found out. Enron, Waste Management, Worldcom ring a bell. I don't deny that it happens, but corruption usually is it's own worse enemy. It happens in Corps and the public gets pissed, it happens in the govt, the public re-elects the accused. People don't view Corps as providing them with anything, only costing them, while they view the government as providing their needs. So they look the other way more often.

I disagree. Market conditions and factors aren't NEARLY as effective in pricing CEO's as they are in other commodity items. Competion model is NOT perfect and the defects tend to be greater on the higher end, larger corporations, govt etc. does it work long run? mb, but in the long run we're all dead is the classic saying for that.

Commodity items, Free market and competition works GREAT, higher end specialty items not as well.

I beg to differ. Several studies have recently shown the escalation of CEO pay is a direct result of a lack of qualified candidates (a market condition: high demand and low supply equals greater cost) in the market. Add in the fact that many former CEOs or other candidates are abstaining from taking CEO positions due to the greater scrutiny placed on them since the fallout and new SEC regs related to the Enron and Worldcom debacles.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: CPA
A lot of the attitude stems from this prevailing tide of thought in this country: "Steal from Peter to pay Paul"

It's the quasi-socialist mentality that many americans have bought into. Big Corporations are Evil, Government is Benevolent. Corporations are out to make a profit, Government is not.

It makes me quite nauceaus.

well corporations aren't completely innocent. some of the payoffs these CEO's get for running their companies in the ground IS obscene. there is corruption in large corporations just like there is in ANY large organization. it's inevitable.

See, you're infected too. Who are you to say what a CEO should be making? What is obscene? The market decides that. A

nd those that are corrupt will be found out. Enron, Waste Management, Worldcom ring a bell. I don't deny that it happens, but corruption usually is it's own worse enemy. It happens in Corps and the public gets pissed, it happens in the govt, the public re-elects the accused. People don't view Corps as providing them with anything, only costing them, while they view the government as providing their needs. So they look the other way more often.

I disagree. Market conditions and factors aren't NEARLY as effective in pricing CEO's as they are in other commodity items. Competion model is NOT perfect and the defects tend to be greater on the higher end, larger corporations, govt etc. does it work long run? mb, but in the long run we're all dead is the classic saying for that.

Commodity items, Free market and competition works GREAT, higher end specialty items not as well.

I beg to differ. Several studies have recently shown the escalation of CEO pay is a direct result of a lack of qualified candidates (a market condition: high demand and low supply equals greater cost) in the market. Add in the fact that many former CEOs or other candidates are abstaining from taking CEO positions due to the greater scrutiny placed on them since the fallout and new SEC regs related to the Enron and Worldcom debacles.

my issues are much more systemic. how do you know if someone is qualified or not? problem is, the stakes are so high that you can't just TRY people out. unfortunately many of the indicators that work on a smaller scale don't work as well on a larger scale. it's the uniqueness of the position that makes it so hard to have a truly competitive enviroment.