lol, you are probably right about that
BTW, this is an M.S. in Software Engineering. My undergrad. is in a bullshit liberal arts field.
Ok, so the hard fact is that I'm going to have to take Calculus I and II. I guess that now I should figure out how I need to get there... specifically, from Algebra II to Calculus II. I've pretty much put off math my entire college career until this past summer when I took statistics. Besides that, though, I haven't had math since Algebra II about 12-years ago.
My experiences with math in highschool were terrible... I barely made it. My teachers sucked and I was completely bored by the classes. I also tried too hard with each problem and overcomplicated things to the point to where I would get everything wrong. It wasn't until my statistics class over the summer that I faced math (well, kinda) again and something seems to have "snapped" in my brain. I can do it now for some strange reason. I came out of my stats class with the top grade and people were always asking me for help...
Anyway, I've now got to figure out how I'm going to get myself to Calculus II from here. Some colleges let you go into pre-calculus while others make you take trigonometry first, then pre-calc, then Calc I, etc. What should I do? Should I start with trig. or should I try to start learning Calculus from the ground up? BTW, what in the F*** is pre-calculus anyway? What does it cover?
Someone earlier in the thread suggested that I just buy a good book on Calculus and start teaching myself until I get to the point where I can take a CLEP test for it. That would be nice, as I'd like to bypass trig and precalc if I can.
I know there are a lot of engineers and such on here who have taken these courses, so please share your thoughts
Thanks!
My experiences with math in highschool were terrible... I barely made it. My teachers sucked and I was completely bored by the classes. I also tried too hard with each problem and overcomplicated things to the point to where I would get everything wrong. It wasn't until my statistics class over the summer that I faced math (well, kinda) again and something seems to have "snapped" in my brain. I can do it now for some strange reason. I came out of my stats class with the top grade and people were always asking me for help...
Anyway, I've now got to figure out how I'm going to get myself to Calculus II from here. Some colleges let you go into pre-calculus while others make you take trigonometry first, then pre-calc, then Calc I, etc. What should I do? Should I start with trig. or should I try to start learning Calculus from the ground up? BTW, what in the F*** is pre-calculus anyway? What does it cover?
Someone earlier in the thread suggested that I just buy a good book on Calculus and start teaching myself until I get to the point where I can take a CLEP test for it. That would be nice, as I'd like to bypass trig and precalc if I can.
I know there are a lot of engineers and such on here who have taken these courses, so please share your thoughts
Thanks!
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,280
- 17,903
- 126
Soft Eng is part of the comp sci programme, just a branching if you will and math is central to all comp sci. In some universities they are ruled by the math department. After all it's said and done, you are getting a BSc n'est pas?
I hate Algebra, I can handle Calculus fine but there must be a big hole in my head when it comes to Algebra.
theknight571
Platinum Member
- Mar 23, 2001
- 2,896
- 2
- 81
Why? Cause the school says so.
I agree with the others that said it's to build a broad foundation.
In college I ended up taking Calc 1 twice, Calc 2 only once, and Calc 3 twice.
I agree with the others that said it's to build a broad foundation.
In college I ended up taking Calc 1 twice, Calc 2 only once, and Calc 3 twice.
purbeast0
No Lifer
- Sep 13, 2001
- 53,638
- 6,522
- 126
you are joking, right?
100% of programming is math, and calculus gets you to start "thinking out of the box." I too wondered why the hell I took Calculus and Linear Algabrae to get a degree in computer science ... that is, until I took an image processing class and openGL class. Then it all began to make sense.
I forget exactly what it is, but taking the dirivative of a pixel and the neighboring pixel can tell you a lot about their relationship. this was a while back so I can't really remember the exact usage of it.
100% of programming is math, and calculus gets you to start "thinking out of the box." I too wondered why the hell I took Calculus and Linear Algabrae to get a degree in computer science ... that is, until I took an image processing class and openGL class. Then it all began to make sense.
I forget exactly what it is, but taking the dirivative of a pixel and the neighboring pixel can tell you a lot about their relationship. this was a while back so I can't really remember the exact usage of it.
Well, this is an M.S. program. Mainly what I'm having to do is go back and take background requirements since I don't have a C.S. undergraduate degree.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,044
- 4,690
- 126
To answer your first question: so many, many computer programs require calculus.
[*]Games have physics now - uses calculus.
[*]Just about any business computer program will have forecasts, trends, etc - uses calculus.
[*]Any scientific computer program - uses calculus.
[*]Any optimized software algorithm was optimized through calculus methods. The is basically what calculus is - finding optimized solutions/methods.
[*]etc.
It is hard to come up with many programs that don't use calculus in some way or another. Unless all you do is program "hello world".
To answer your second question: you have to get back on the math track. Far too many people think they suck at math or hate math. This isn't because they suck at math or that they actually hate math. No, in reality, it usually means they had a horrible teacher or two. And then since math builds on itself, once you get a bad attitude in one class, it is over for the rest of your math classes. Hopefully that long break you had will let you get over your bad feelings towards it.
Algebra itself has a dozen or so things you need to learn. I bet you already know them all. If not, you can learn them in about a half hour of studying (you won't be highly efficient in using them, but you'll know them). Once you have those basics down, the rest of Algebra (pre-Algebra, Algebra I, Algebra II) is just using those few concepts in different ways. You don't have to be taught these other variations, you don't have to memorize these other variations. All it takes is a bit of trial and error and you yourself could solve ALL algebra problems from those few simple concepts.
The problem with Algebra is that too many teachers are too authortitarian. Too many of the teachers are cruel dictators forcing students to obey their every whim and to memorize hundreds of different, pointless rules and methods that they'll never need or use again. For example, I once missed a problem on an Algebra test because I wrote the answer as 1/2 instead of 0.5. Same damn thing, but my teacher wanted everything written in her particular format. Did I do the Algebra wrong? No. But I missed the problem because my teacher sucked.
I suggest getting yourself a copy of a book that covers Algebra basics. Spend some time just solving a bunch of problems. 99% of people's difficulties in Calculus is that they can't do the Algebra at the end.
[*]Games have physics now - uses calculus.
[*]Just about any business computer program will have forecasts, trends, etc - uses calculus.
[*]Any scientific computer program - uses calculus.
[*]Any optimized software algorithm was optimized through calculus methods. The is basically what calculus is - finding optimized solutions/methods.
[*]etc.
It is hard to come up with many programs that don't use calculus in some way or another. Unless all you do is program "hello world".
To answer your second question: you have to get back on the math track. Far too many people think they suck at math or hate math. This isn't because they suck at math or that they actually hate math. No, in reality, it usually means they had a horrible teacher or two. And then since math builds on itself, once you get a bad attitude in one class, it is over for the rest of your math classes. Hopefully that long break you had will let you get over your bad feelings towards it.
Algebra itself has a dozen or so things you need to learn. I bet you already know them all. If not, you can learn them in about a half hour of studying (you won't be highly efficient in using them, but you'll know them). Once you have those basics down, the rest of Algebra (pre-Algebra, Algebra I, Algebra II) is just using those few concepts in different ways. You don't have to be taught these other variations, you don't have to memorize these other variations. All it takes is a bit of trial and error and you yourself could solve ALL algebra problems from those few simple concepts.
The problem with Algebra is that too many teachers are too authortitarian. Too many of the teachers are cruel dictators forcing students to obey their every whim and to memorize hundreds of different, pointless rules and methods that they'll never need or use again. For example, I once missed a problem on an Algebra test because I wrote the answer as 1/2 instead of 0.5. Same damn thing, but my teacher wanted everything written in her particular format. Did I do the Algebra wrong? No. But I missed the problem because my teacher sucked.
I suggest getting yourself a copy of a book that covers Algebra basics. Spend some time just solving a bunch of problems. 99% of people's difficulties in Calculus is that they can't do the Algebra at the end.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,044
- 4,690
- 126
You are always welcome. There are many sources for these rules. The top Google search gave me this site. Look at what is in the blue boxes. Then you need to know the order of operations. If you know those things, you can solve any algebra problem with enough time (even without any other knowledge, learning, books, or whatever). True, you may be far more efficient if you learn more than those basics, but those basics are all you need to know. Then practice, practice, practice. Everything else in algebra is just different ways/guidelines on efficient ways to use those rules.Originally posted by: jread
dullard, thanks for your post!
What are these dozen Algebra concepts btw?
In addition, you'll need to know the defintion of the problem you are working on. What I linked to are the tools, but you'll still need the specific defintions of your specific problem. For example, if you are trying to fix a car that won't start and you don't know what an alternator is, it doesn't matter how good you are with tools, you can't effectively work on the car. And since I don't know what problems you'll face, I can't link the definitions to those problems.
Cool I've always found it easy to remember the order of operations by using a saying we learned back in gradeschool: "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally."
Thanks for the links!
I've been reviewing concepts and seem to remember most of it except for one thing that shouldn't be hard: Finding the original value of something based on a current value that is a percentage of the original. For some reason, I can't remember how to do this. Here's an example problem.
1. "The price of a microwave oven has been discounted by 15%. The sale price is $339.15. What is the original price of the microwave oven?"
I've always found it easy to remember the order of operations by using a saying we learned back in gradeschool: "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally."Thanks for the links!
I've been reviewing concepts and seem to remember most of it except for one thing that shouldn't be hard: Finding the original value of something based on a current value that is a percentage of the original. For some reason, I can't remember how to do this. Here's an example problem.
1. "The price of a microwave oven has been discounted by 15%. The sale price is $339.15. What is the original price of the microwave oven?"
what's so hard about calculus?
i ended up taking calc 1-4...if i remember correctly i think i thought calc 2 was the hardest of them all, calc 3 and 4 were unexpectedly easier...
i ended up taking calc 1-4...if i remember correctly i think i thought calc 2 was the hardest of them all, calc 3 and 4 were unexpectedly easier...
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,044
- 4,690
- 126
Dullard's patented three step process to solve all word problems:
Step 1: Take the time to write down the definitions. Not only will it make problems much easier to solve, but it is just a good communication skill to learn.
Definitions:
[*]P = Price of the microwave originally.
[*]S = Sale price of the microwave = $339.15.
[*]D = Discount.
Step 2: Fix the horrible grammar of the person who wrote the problem. Discounted by 15% of what? Was the price discounted by 15% of the number of monkeys in the local zoo? Was the price discounted by 15% of the number of fingers on my hands? Clearly, it should state that the discount was 15% of the original price. Thus the question written properly is:
[*]"The price of a microwave oven has been discounted by 15% of the original price. The sale price is $339.15. What is the original price of the microwave oven?"
Step 3: Substitute math symbols for the words.
[*]Where you see the word "price", write P.
[*]Where you see the word "discount", write a minus sign.
[*]Where you see 15%, write D.
[*]Where you see the word "of", write a multiplication sign.
[*]Where you see the word "is", write an equal sign.
[*]Where you see $339.15, write S.
Example Edit: I fixed a typo in the link.
And you are done.
Note: the "of", "is", "discount" rules work for ALL word problems. There are other words for adding, dividing, etc. You'll need to know the definition of the words. Luckilly, there aren't too many words used.
Awesome! Thanks
Your example was easy to follow, though I had to do a double take on the second part where you converted from P - D x P = S to P x (1-D) = S
spacejamz
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 10,965
- 1,672
- 126
I did read the thread but your whiny attitude is typical of many young adults today...they want everything now without having to work for it and they always try to take the easiest way out. They don't understand the value of hard work and doing things for the right personal reasons.
If you don't want to take calculus, then choose a different degree program that doesn't require it...whining about it on ATOT isn't going to change anything.
If you don't like calculus and the analytical thinking it requires, maybe engineering isn't for you...
So many assumptions....
I'm not a young adult... I'm nearly 30. I work full-time and go to night courses full-time, and am maintaining a 3.9 GPA at a relatively difficult university. I'm married, have a house, have bills... believe me, I know the struggle of life all too well (which is why I'm trying to get an education and open more doors). I'm self-taught in programming but would like to have a better educational background in the field. The point of this post is that I didn't understand *why* calculus was required... I didn't see its place in the big picture. I will, however, do what it takes to get what I want. If that means I have to take Calc I and II, then so be it.
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